Cleveland Browns (2011 season)

[AuTX Buckeye]

1. that's the sort of logic that phil savage used when taking kam wimbley over haloti ngata. overreaching for a guy that's a lesser prospect than other positions is simply bad draft strategy period.

2. one of the knocks on dez bryant from cowboy folks is that he didn't know most of the nfl route tree. i think you can connect the dots from there.

I take issue with this.. just because one guy is an idiot, which dez has pretty much shown to be, doesn't mean all others from the same school are..

also.. dez only played 2 years and his position coach was Trooper Taylor (says alot) ...

 

[Mike80]

1. that's the sort of logic that phil savage used when taking kam wimbley over haloti ngata. overreaching for a guy that's a lesser prospect than other positions is simply bad draft strategy period.

Phil Savage is the same guy who traded up to get Brady Quinn. Enough said. Holmgren isn't stupid. That still doesn't disprove what I'm saying.

2. one of the knocks on dez bryant from cowboy folks is that he didn't know most of the nfl route tree. i think you can connect the dots from there.

That is my one caveat given the history of OKie State WRs. But hell at this point I'd take Dez Bryant over the crap that is the Browns WRs.

 

[Mike80]

I guess I should point out no matter who the Browns draft, be it RGIII or Blackmon or if they fleece the Redskins for their over-reach on RGIII, this franchise will still find a way to ruin all of these guys careers that they do draft and they will perpetually be 4-12 or 6-10 for the next 5 years or so.

 

[tsteele316]

Phil Savage is the same guy who traded up to get Brady Quinn. Enough said. Holmgren isn't stupid. That still doesn't disprove what I'm saying.



That is my one caveat given the history of OKie State WRs. But hell at this point I'd take Dez Bryant over the crap that is the Browns WRs.

no, holmgren and heckert aren't stupid. that's why they won't take a lesser prospect simply because he is deemed a "playmaker". the ngata/wimbley comparison is about as spot on as it gets.

i'd take dez bryant over everyone that isn't greg little. that still doesn't mean i'd use the #4 overall pick in the draft for him.

 

[Mike80]

no, holmgren and heckert aren't stupid. that's why they won't take a lesser prospect simply because he is deemed a "playmaker". the ngata/wimbley comparison is about as spot on as it gets.

Except it's not spot on at all. Different players, different roles, different systems. It's about as far off as could be without these players actually taking the field and failing.

i'd take dez bryant over everyone that isn't greg little. that still doesn't mean i'd use the #4 overall pick in the draft for him.

Even Greg Little at this point. Little would be complimentary to Bryant, not the other way around.

 

[tsteele316]

Except it's not spot on at all. Different players, different roles, different systems. It's about as far off as could be without these players actually taking the field and failing.



Even Greg Little at this point. Little would be complimentary to Bryant, not the other way around.

no, the entire point of the analogy is passing on what are clearly superior players for the sake of taking a "playmaker". that's the concept. position is irrelevant.

greg little: 61 catches, 709 yards.
dez bryant: 63 catches, 926 yards.

one had a competent qb and was a 2nd year player. once was a rookie that didn't play football in 2 years and rarely played wide receiver. hardly a disparity.

 

[AuTX Buckeye]

no, the entire point of the analogy is passing on what are clearly superior players for the sake of taking a "playmaker". that's the concept. position is irrelevant.

greg little: 61 catches, 709 yards.
dez bryant: 63 catches, 926 yards.

one had a competent qb and was a 2nd year player. once was a rookie that didn't play football in 2 years and rarely played wide receiver. hardly a disparity.

Clearly superior? the knock on Ngata was he didn't have any drive or would disappear... Ngata playing on the browns is not the Ngata playing on the Ravens with Ray Lewis & Ed Reed.


bottom line is this.. we can go back and forth about Blackmon or whoever... the browns will fuck up the pick no matter what.

 

[tsteele316]

Clearly superior? the knock on Ngata was he didn't have any drive or would disappear... Ngata playing on the browns is not the Ngata playing on the Ravens with Ray Lewis & Ed Reed.


bottom line is this.. we can go back and forth about Blackmon or whoever... the browns will fuck up the pick no matter what.

and ngata was still considered to be the vastly superior player to wimbley by every draft person associated with football, except for one....

 

[Mike80]

no, the entire point of the analogy is passing on what are clearly superior players for the sake of taking a "playmaker". that's the concept. position is irrelevant.

greg little: 61 catches, 709 yards.
dez bryant: 63 catches, 926 yards.

one had a competent qb and was a 2nd year player. once was a rookie that didn't play football in 2 years and rarely played wide receiver. hardly a disparity.

One had better players around him so the QB would be able to spread the ball around more and the other was the primary threat in an offense that can't run the ball effectively.

And who, exactly is the sure thing in the top 4? Kalil. That's about it. Don't believe the hype on Luck or RGIII.

 

[BuckNut65]

I think we can go on and on about how many drafts we have screwed up....especially since the expansion Browns came into existence. That being said, I think Heckert and Holmgren have at least produced players from the draft that are capable of being viable starters for years to come. Had we done this from the beginning we would never be where we are at.

You can count on one hand the number of players drafted in the first three rounds since the expansion that are still left on the team...not counting the Heckert drafts. Even more telling is that most of the guys drafted are completely out of the league!
Pre-Heckert (Drafted first 3 rounds and currently on team) s=starts
Thomas - 1 (s)
Mack - 1 (s)
Massaquoi - 2 (s)
Jackson - 2 (s)

Think about it....11 drafts prior to Heckert...roughly 33 picks and this is all that is left. Two 1's and two 2's and nothing else afterwards. With Heckert you have the following drafted in the first 3 rounds that are currently on the team:

Heckert/Holmgren (Drafted first 3 rounds and currently on team)
McCoy - 3 (s)
Hardesty - 2
Little - 2 (s)
Lauvao - 3 (s)
Sheard - 2 (s)
Taylor - 1 (s)
Ward - 2 (s)
Haden -1 (s)

If you look at the Heckert/Holmgren drafts, other than Hardesty, they are all starters. I think there is some light at the end of this tunnel...give Heckert and Holmgren some time We are finally trying to do things the right way instead of half-assing things with [Mark May]ty draft reaches and even worse free-agent pick-ups. I know everyone is impatient but impatience is what created this runaway train to begin with...

 

[AKAK]

Clearly superior? the knock on Ngata was he didn't have any drive or would disappear... Ngata playing on the browns is not the Ngata playing on the Ravens with Ray Lewis & Ed Reed.


bottom line is this.. we can go back and forth about Blackmon or whoever... the browns will fuck up the pick no matter what.

Which kind of goes back to my point about getting a veteran WR, a couple pages ago... is that we need leaders and a culture to help these guys succeed.

I think the pick is less about that than the other things they are doing.

I still don't think they go with RGIII... and I think they are playing him up to trade him, partly because he should be on the board if no one else trades down. But, that's likely the Rams if anyone does, and I don't see anyone blinking because they'll take Kalil at the spot and will want Blackmon if they trade down, so they can't go down too far... and I just, if I'm them don't see how they don't keep the pick and take Kalil.

Trick is if the Redskins trade for Peyton Manning straight up. (Though, I tend to think the Colts just release him if they don't keep him, I can't see where that contract is movable even if they pay him the roster bonus, then move him)

Uggh, this is more thinking about the draft than I want to do. But, I don't think they;ll mess it up. Rarely do they take the guy that I want (Joe Thomas being a glaring exception... and I suppose I wanted Tim Couch too, though I would have taken the Ditka deal for him to get Ricky Williams)

Barring a scenario that we did get Claiborne it would be cool if we took Chase Minnefield in the second though. But that's a nostalgia pick (that might just work out).

Be curious to see if the Dolphins or Seahawks have any interest in RGIII as well... I mean, the idiocy of Tannehill going as high as some think is soley because there aren't any QB's after Luck or Griffin. I'd rather pay for RGIII if I'm them than take that scrub. (Hear that Holmgren, if you like Tannehill, fine, trade way the hell down)

 

[BearBuck27]

no, holmgren and heckert aren't stupid. that's why they won't take a lesser prospect simply because he is deemed a "playmaker". the ngata/wimbley comparison is about as spot on as it gets.

i'd take dez bryant over everyone that isn't greg little. that still doesn't mean i'd use the #4 overall pick in the draft for him.

So who do you like with the number four pick?

 

[y0yoyoin]

if your a browns fan and hate RGIII and McCoy, then the best case scenario would be for the packers to not franchise tag Matt Flynn (which i heard they wont)...this would be huge because we wouldnt have to trade to get Flynn...i do believe holmgren and heckert are waiting to see what is going to happen with that situation before they make a decision on RGIII...u can hate RGIII to the browns all u want but the bottom line is we are going to look hard at him...getting flynn would be a good thing because you get a QB and still have your 2 first round picks to select whoever you want

as far as Blackmon, i do agree with tsteele...Blackmon is not in larry fitz, andre johnson or calvin johnson territory...i remember seeing plenty of mock drafts where all 3 of those guys were listed as the best prospect in the draft...who knows how good blackmons career will be but i think if u had julio jones, AJ green and blackmon all in the same draft, blackmon would go 3rd because of his size and a DUI he got...his hands are also not as near as good as green or jones when they were in college....i do think blackmon is a good route runner tho...i will be happy if the browns take him but i hope we dont trade up to get him for any reason

 

[3074326]

Best player available in the first and second rounds, draft on need after that.. Overthinking = bad.

I'd go Richardson.

 

[y0yoyoin]

Best player available in the first and second rounds, draft on need after that.. Overthinking = bad.

couldnt say it any better...if we all agree on this i think we should be good to go