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Cleveland Browns (2011 season)

If they can get Bowers in the 2nd, I'll be pacified. I know he's a risk, but the potential ceiling there outweighs the knee in my mind.

My issue with trading up and taking Taylor is that it was widely know the Vikes and Detroit were looking to trade at 12 and 13...why not move up and get a possible impact pass rusher in Quinn, then grab a DT with that early second? Now you're left having to plug one of your major holes with a boom or bust pick in Bowers if he's even there. Also, you now have to wait even longer to get WR help...or vice-versa if they go WR first.

I will admit, I was down on Ward last year and he proved me wrong. But I was also livid with the Hardesty pick and right now that pick isn't looking so hot. I know H & H have good track records, but I'm an extremely jasded browns fan and I just believe stupidity is a virus in Berea.

I'm not ready to pass judgement until I see the whole thing, but it's not off to a strong start in my mind.
 
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NFBuck;1914110; said:
If they can get Bowers in the 2nd, I'll be pacified. I know he's a risk, but the potential ceiling there outweighs the knee in my mind.

My issue with trading up and taking Taylor is that it was widely know the Vikes and Detroit were looking to trade at 12 and 13...why not move up and get a possible impact pass rusher in Quinn, then grab a DT with that early second? Now you're left having to plug one of your major holes with a boom or bust pick in Bowers if he's even there. Also, you now have to wait even longer to get WR help...or vice-versa if they go WR first.

Who knows what the price may have been to make a deal with the Vikings or Lions? What if they asked for #27 and one of next year's first rounders? Even if it was Atlanta's pick the were asking for, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves and that would be the end of that possible deal.

That Atlanta first rounder could turn out to be more valuable than people are realizing right now. The NFC South is notoriously fickle. The Saints just did a ton to improve themselves and Tampa Bay is a young team on the rise. It's not out of the realm of possibility for the Falcons to stay healthy and have a decent season and still finish 3rd in that division and out of the playoffs. That could move that pick the Browns acquired way up.
 
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stowfan;1914113; said:
Haden and Ward didn't have two bad feet, and a weight problem that wanders as high as 380#, I hope Taylor lasts 3 years,
Yep. On top of that, the big knock on Fairley was that he was a "one year wonder". Well, at least in his one year he was fucking dominant and a game changer. I've yet to see a highlight of Taylor that has "wowed" me. Taylor was BENCHED in 2009 supposedly because of his effort. He's big. That seems to be the selling point. Maybe they make it up from here on, but that pick is a D at best...my IMO.

I would have preferred they picked Jones at #6 because at least he's a prototypical WCO receiver who's pretty polished coming out of college. Now we have to hope we can find Colt somebody to throw to in rounds 2-3 and the Browns track record there isn't real strong. If they don't find Colt some weapons, he's just going to flame out like everyone before him and we're looking for a QB again in two years.​
 
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NFBuck;1914117; said:
Yep. On top of that, the big knock on Fairley was that he was a "one year wonder". Well, at least in his one year he was [censored]ing dominant and a game changer. I've yet to see a highlight of Taylor that has "wowed" me. Taylor was BENCHED in 2009 supposedly because of his effort. He's big. That seems to be the selling point. Maybe they make it up from here on, but that pick is a D at best...my IMO.

I would have preferred they picked Jones at #6 because at least he's a prototypical WCO receiver who's pretty polished coming out of college. Now we have to hope we can find Colt somebody to throw to in rounds 2-3 and the Browns track record there isn't real strong. If they don't find Colt some weapons, he's just going to flame out like everyone before him and we're looking for a QB again in two years.​

Yeah, this was the Anti Haden pick... based on all physical attribute... we all knew Haden could play, but the 40 times were a bit scary....

Honestly, I'm a bit curious if getting the pick in next years draft (and if they move around today or tomorrow and get more picks for next year) that this might be part of the "Andrew Luck" project...

Either way though, pretty deep draft this year so, the second rounder is going to have more value than usual, and the 1st Next year will be handy.

Ironically, Bowers is sort of a Hardesty-esque pick, but, might be worth the risk-- but yeah, if the pass on him, they can't clear him...
 
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Peter King, SI.com:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/04/29/2011-nfl-draft/index.html

Everything in the NFL is cyclical.

The Julio Jones trade was a perfect storm of two bold young general managers trying to do something that made inordinate sense for each team ... with a bizarre historical precedent.

"When we started talking about a trade this size about a week ago,'' Cleveland GM Tom Heckert told me last night, "we looked for a trade we might be able to pattern it after, and we found one back in 1995. Cleveland and the 49ers made a deal where the 49ers moved way up to take J.J. Stokes.''

Uh-oh. Harbinger of doom right there.

Cleveland owned the 10th pick in 1995, San Francisco the 30th. With John Taylor and Jerry Rice getting old, the 49ers sent first-, third- and fourth-round picks in 1995 and a first-rounder in 1996 to move up to take Stokes, the receiver they thought would be a great successor to Rice. He flopped, of course, averaging 38 catches a year in a starless nine-year career. In the 1995 draft, Cleveland coach Bill Belichick, running his last draft before getting fired by Art Modell, didn't have his best day. He chose linebacker Craig Powell and linebacker Mike Frederick with the first two 1995 picks.

But the 1996 first-round pick, after the franchise moved to Baltimore? Linebacker Ray Lewis.

Cleveland got zilch out of the deal. The 49ers got the same.

"I don't think history's going to repeat itself,'' said Heckert.

These two teams hope not. This time, Cleveland traded the sixth pick in the draft to Atlanta for the Falcons' first- (27th overall), second- (59th) and fourth- (124th), and next year's first- and fourth-rounders. So in 1995, San Francisco moved up 20 spots in the first round and paid a 1, 1, 3 and 4; in 2011, Atlanta moved up 21 spots in the first round and paid a 1, 1, 3, 4 and 4. An extra four, as it turns out. A ransom, some called it. A Ditka/Ricky Williams deal, others said.

I love it for both teams. Cleveland has six or eight major holes all over the field and acquired three top-60 picks and two in the fourth round to address them. In Matt Ryan's career, Atlanta may never be in position to draft a 6-foot-4, 223-pound wideout who runs a 4.38-second 40 and blocks like a poor man's Hines Ward. The Falcons were desperate for an explosive offensive player to take pressure off Roddy White -- who turns 30 this season. Seems like a good deal for both teams, though I realize the Falcons slightly overpaid for a player who has B-minus hands.

"It will be lauded by some, scrutinized by others,'' Dimitroff said over the phone just before midnight. "It's a substantial price to pay, but we spread it over two years, and we're still left with a three, a five, a six and three sevens this year. I want to emphasize this: I know the impression out there will be that we must think we're one player away to have paid so much for one player. But that isn't the case at all. We need more explosive playmaking, and this will help not only Matt but Roddy White and Michael Jenkins and Tony Gonzalez. We just decided to make an aggressive bold move that we think will pay off for our team.''

Dimitroff first called Heckert last week, and they actually reached the parameters of a deal early this week. Cleveland would have gotten cold feet had the best player on their board, A.J. Green slipped down to their pick at six, but that didn't happen. When Jones was there at six, both teams eagerly pulled the trigger.

This is the kind of trade a timid GM can't make. Wouldn't make. I'm reminded of the 2008 draft, when I spent the weekend in Atlanta for Dimitroff's first draft. He turned down a treasure trove from Baltimore to stay at number three and pick Mike Vick's replacement, Ryan. Then he dealt two second-round picks in a deal for tackle Sam Baker, the 21st pick in the first round. Baker wasn't worthy of the 21st pick in terms of talent, but Dimitroff saw the tackles flying off the board and said, "It can't always be about the value. Sometimes it has to be about the player.'' Baker's a passable left tackle now, and without him, Ryan might have been abused significantly more in his first three years.

But give credit to Heckert too. The Browns desperately wanted a wideout threat; they have none for young quarterback Colt McCoy. And now the pressure's on Heckert to make sure that, like Dimitroff, he can turn one of these prominent picks into an explosive offensive weapon.

This is the deal that made the 2011 draft so much fun. A good friend of mine, a Falcons fans from Augusta, Ga., texted late last night to say, "ATL has a Christmas feel to it tonight.'' Thanks to Dimitroff.
21. Cleveland: Very interesting pick upon trading down to 27 and then trading back up to 21. Nose tackle was not a big need position for the Browns after unknown Ahtyba Rubin came out of nowhere to be so solid late last season. But they picked the best nose guy in the draft, Phillip Taylor of Baylor. Tom Heckert told me last night Taylor's more than a nose, and he had some experience playing the three-technique in college. Cleveland needed reinforcements on the line for the switch to the 4-3.
 
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I, for one, am ecstatic we got Phil Collins... or was it Jason Taylor??

Wait.. who knew Baylor had a football team???
Who knows where Baylor is located?

The Indians are in first place !!!!
 
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A couple notes about the Browns night yesterday...

1. I don't really like the Taylor pick like many of you. However, I do trust Holmgren and Heckert to know more about football than myself so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I guess the theory behind the pick is have 2 big run stoppers in the middle so Fujita and Jackson can fly around and make a ton of tackles. Taylor has been compared to Kris Jenkins, so if that ends up to be accurate the pick will have been a good one.

2. Holy haul on the trade with Atlanta. Love that trade because I didn't want to draft Braylon 2.0. Browns got a ton of picks so hopefully Heckert can find some gems with them.

3. For those upset about the Browns moving back up by giving up a 3rd. Think of it this way to make you feel better. Its the same thing as trading with the Falcons if they had #21. We would have gotten next years 1 and 4, this years 4 and we moved up from the top of the third to the bottom of the 2nd round.

4. Would like to see Bowers come off the board finally to the Browns in the 2nd. Definitely worth the risk at that point. Also as far as wideouts go, not crazy about any that are left but I wouldn't mind Titus Young from Boise. Also I wouldn't have minded seeing Jonathan Baldwin in the 1st instead of Taylor but oh well.

Trust Holmgren and Heckert
 
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scarletngrey11;1914077; said:
Off the top of my head, these are guys I hope we target during the second round with our two picks.

Brooks Reed DE/OLB Arizona
Kyle Rudolph TE Notre Dame
Marvin Austin DT North Carolina
Da'Quan Bowers DE Clemson
Akeem Ayers OLB UCLA
Bruce Carter OLB UNC
Dontay Moch OLB Nevada
Rahim Moore FS UCLA
Martez Wilson ILB Illinois
Greg Little WR UNC
Brandon Harris CB Miami
Aaron Williams CB Texas
Leonard Hankerson WR Miami

Add Drake Nevis (LSU), and Jarviss Jenkins (Clemson) to that list aalong with Paea as far as DTs. We could have taken the CB from the Ravens and done as well with a DT in the second. This whole trade/pick truly sucks.
 
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aurorabuckeye13;1914132; said:
A couple notes about the Browns night yesterday...

1. I don't really like the Taylor pick like many of you. However, I do trust Holmgren and Heckert to know more about football than myself so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I guess the theory behind the pick is have 2 big run stoppers in the middle so Fujita and Jackson can fly around and make a ton of tackles. Taylor has been compared to Kris Jenkins, so if that ends up to be accurate the pick will have been a good one.

2. Holy haul on the trade with Atlanta. Love that trade because I didn't want to draft Braylon 2.0. Browns got a ton of picks so hopefully Heckert can find some gems with them.

3. For those upset about the Browns moving back up by giving up a 3rd. Think of it this way to make you feel better. Its the same thing as trading with the Falcons if they had #21. We would have gotten next years 1 and 4, this years 4 and we moved up from the top of the third to the bottom of the 2nd round.

4. Would like to see Bowers come off the board finally to the Browns in the 2nd. Definitely worth the risk at that point. Also as far as wideouts go, not crazy about any that are left but I wouldn't mind Titus Young from Boise. Also I wouldn't have minded seeing Jonathan Baldwin in the 1st instead of Taylor but oh well.

Trust Holmgren and Heckert

As far as wideouts go, give me Hankerson from Miami.

Reminds me of Reggie Wayne.

Also, I know it is not a position of need, but I think Safety Rahim Moore from UCLA is going to be a playmaker.
 
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stowfan;1914138; said:
Add Drake Nevis (LSU), and Jarviss Jenkins (Clemson) to that list aalong with Paea as far as DTs. We could have taken the CB from the Ravens and done as well with a DT in the second. This whole trade/pick truly sucks.

Getting Jimmy Smith in the first and someone like Marvin Austin in the second looks a hell of a lot better than what we are likely to get now...

EDIT: Plus we could have kept that 3rd round pick.
 
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scarletngrey11;1914071; said:
This.

This pick makes no sense.

I challenge ANYONE to make this make sense.

Because it doesnt. The Browns are idiots. They have been since they came back. This move looks absolutely retarded.

Nothing impresses me about Taylor. Wilkerson looks like a MUCH better player, and he lasted to the Jets at 30.

My negatives for Phil Taylor:

-work ethic
-inoperable condition in both feet that causes pain, will have to deal with and have to play through entire career
-conditioning issues
-no pass rush whatsoever, similar player already on roster in Rubin
-no impressive game film, had an impressive senior bowl, but then again so did Charlie fucking Frye

Defend this pick. Someone. Please.

dude i thought you were done with the browns....of course you arent....anyways i wont defend us trading up to get taylor but i will defend the browns need for another NT, who is the best NT in the draft according to kiper, peter king and others to go along side Rubin since Shaun Rodgers is clearly gone...he has no pass rush, yes, but he is drafted to stop the run....the foot pain was a rumor which you obviously didnt see was refuted over and over...no impressive game film? thats cool, alot of great NFL players had the same non-impressive game film...he may have some conditioning and work ethic issues but those are minor and can easily be cleared up...you have the right to your own opinion about the browns draft but im getting tired of your constant bashing of everything the browns do...if you dont care for the browns and say your done then fucking be done...its getting annoying
 
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KingLeon;1914154; said:
If you listen to Phil Taylor's phone interview on Cleveland.com/browns he sounds like a great kid and a mature young man in my opinion. I think we will end up being very happy with him.......

He's not dumber than a post???

borat_great_success-450x337.jpg
 
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http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2011/04/cleveland_browns_see_the_long-.html

Surprise selection of Baylor's Taylor puts the spotlight on Cleveland Browns' GM Tom Heckert: Terry Pluto

But they skipped Bowers, and took Baylor nose tackle Phil Taylor. He is a massive man, 6-foot-3, 337 pounds. Like most mountain men in the middle of the defensive line, he has weight and stamina issues. Pro Football Weekly's Nolan Nawrocki wrote, "An enormous, knock-kneed wide body with a unique combination of strength and athletic ability who has drawn comparisons to Pat Williams."
Nawrocki said Taylor can "be effective" in a 3-4 or 4-3 defense. He projected Taylor as a "second- or third-round pick." He also was kicked off the Penn State team after being involved in a fight on campus.
The Browns say his weight has been under control this season. He played about 80 snaps a game -- compared to 35-to-45 for Auburn's Nick Fairley. He also made the honor role in 2009 at Baylor and stayed out of trouble after transferring.
It does address the need on the defense to combat the run. Coach Pat Shurmur seems excited about the idea of Ahtyba Rubin and Taylor in the middle of the line. Since Shurmur is an offensive coach by nature, the fact that he endorsed the pick of General Manager Tom Heckert speaks well of Taylor.
Cont...
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/04/cleveland_browns_fall_21_spots.html

Browns GM Tom Heckert is "100 percent confident" Phil Taylor does not have a character problem, and is adamant that the first-rounder's foot condition is "no issue whatsoever."

"He was so high on our board that we didn't want to take a chance," Heckert said of the trade back up to No. 21. The 337-pounder will line up on "either side" of Ahtyba Rubin, providing a mammoth defensive tackle tandem in Cleveland's new 4-3 defense. "He's a big man who can push the pocket," said Heckert. "If your guards or center are undersized, he's going to run right over the top of them. That's intriguing for us."
 
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