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Cleveland Browns (2010 season)

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NFBuck;1695811; said:
I don't think it's an awful draft overall, just not close to what it should have been. Ward and Hardesty were major gaffes IMO.

Ward was a puzzling choice to me...seems there were a couple more highly rated safetys on the board. He had 10 tackles in the Rose Bowl IIRC. I'm going to have to watch that game again to see if I even notice this guy. It's a nice excuse to rewatch the Rose Bowl anyway. :wink2:
 
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Buckeneye;1695918; said:
Ward could also have been taken in the 3rd.

How do you know this? Did all 31 other teams tell you? If they thought they could have gotten him in the 3rd, I'd imagine they would've gotten him in the 3rd. They saw something in him they liked. Give Holmgren a chance. He's proven that he knows what to do with a team.

Everyone over-valued the hell out of Colt McCoy. Browns fans were bitching about how they didn't get him and passed on him twice. Then they still got him 85th overall.

Holmgren's judgement > our judgement
 
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3074326;1695934; said:
How do you know this? Did all 31 other teams tell you? If they thought they could have gotten him in the 3rd, I'd imagine they would've gotten him in the 3rd. They saw something in him they liked. Give Holmgren a chance. He's proven that he knows what to do with a team.

Everyone over-valued the hell out of Colt McCoy. Browns fans were bitching about how they didn't get him and passed on him twice. Then they still got him 85th overall.

Holmgren's judgement > our judgement
Holmgren said the early picks were being handled by Heckert and Mangini...
 
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Heckert did pretty well in Philly.

Mangini hasn't done that poorly in drafts, either. I'd actually argue that Mangini has done really well in drafts. His first draft with the Jets was in 2006. In that draft they drafted these players..

1st round - D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Nick Mangold
4th - Brad Smith, Leon Washington

10 picks in 06 total, four of them play/played pretty big roles in the offense.

2007 - four picks total, Harris is starting and doing well as far as I know, Revis maybe the best CB in the game. Stuckey is great value in the 7th round.

1st - Darrelle Revis
2nd - David Harris
7th - Chansi Stuckey

2008 draft was not Mangini's, and it was awful. Aside from Dustin Keller.

On Heckert, from Wikipedia:

During Heckert's tenure with the Eagles, the team drafted or acquired 10 players who would go on to earn Pro Bowl status, including kicker David Akers, defensive lineman Trent Cole, wide receiver DeSean Jackson, offensive lineman Jason Peters, cornerback Asante Samuel and fullback Leonard Weaver, all of whom recently were selected to the 2010 Pro Bowl. Of the 22 Eagles starters at the end of the 2009 season, 13 were draft choices of the team during Heckert's tenure while two more were signed as undrafted free agents.

Notable picks while Heckert was GM (he was VP of player personnel until 2006):

2006 (8 picks):

1st - Brodrick Bunkley
4th - Jason Avant
5th - Omar Gaither

2007 (8 picks):

2nd - Kevin Kolb
3rd - Stewart Bradley
5th - Brent Celek

2008 (10 picks):

2nd - Desean Jackson
4th - Quintin Demps
6th - Joe Mays (looked good last year when Bradley was injured)

2009 (8 picks)

1st - Jeremy Maclin
2nd - Lesean McCoy

I'm willing to give them a chance.. they've proven that they can get good value after the first round. The guys I mentioned from Philly have seen time starting. Demps is starting at S, Mays was filling in pretty well for Stewart Bradley last year when Bradley was hurt.
 
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3074326;1695934; said:
How do you know this? Did all 31 other teams tell you? If they thought they could have gotten him in the 3rd, I'd imagine they would've gotten him in the 3rd.

Who are you refering too? Ward or Hardesty? Ward I'll let pass because I believe he was in fact the 4th rated safety. At that time Mays had just gone off the board. It seemed like we got nervous that there wouldn't be a safety available and drafting a position just to say you "addressed it" is bad business imho.

But the Hardesty pick? C'mon, you yourself have to admit that was a reach big time. His name hadn't even been mentioned until well after we selected Ward.



3074326;1695934; said:
They saw something in him they liked. Give Holmgren a chance. He's proven that he knows what to do with a team.

We've seen as Cleveland fans this before. I'm willing to give Holmgren a pass based on his record, but I really would like to have seen their evaluation's.

3074326;1695934; said:
Holmgren's judgement > our judgement


I'll give you this - but damn I would just love to run a draft room one day. :biggrin:
 
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Buckeneye;1695947; said:
Who are you refering too? Ward or Hardesty? Ward I'll let pass because I believe he was in fact the 4th rated safety. At that time Mays had just gone off the board. It seemed like we got nervous that there wouldn't be a safety available and drafting a position just to say you "addressed it" is bad business imho.

But the Hardesty pick? C'mon, you yourself have to admit that was a reach big time. His name hadn't even been mentioned until well after we selected Ward.

I'm referring to anyone really.. I'm assuming that the majority of us don't really know how good these players are. I could be wrong. The Browns didn't have Ward as the 4th rated safety, they must have had him as the third.. which isn't really that big of a reach considering where the next safety went.

I don't know much about Hardesty, other than Browns fans were mad about drafting him.

We've seen as Cleveland fans this before. I'm willing to give Holmgren a pass based on his record, but I really would like to have seen their evaluation's.

I'd like to see the evaluations too. I'm not saying I agree with the picks btw. Just willing to give him a chance. He seems like he knows what he's doing, and he doesn't seem to be bothered by what other people say. I like that. I think the picks were fine. I think he addressed the CB need and the QB need very well. McCoy at that spot in the draft was golden.
 
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Color me unimpressed. D/D+

Ward was a reach @ 38 and way overpaid to get back into the 2nd.

They traded:

pick 71 (3rd round) Morgan Burnett CB from GT - 7.6 grade*
pick 137 (5th round) Perrish Cox CB from OK St - 6.9 grade*
pick 146 (5th round) Cam Thomas DT from UNC - 7.2 grade*


They drafted:

pick 59 (2nd round) Montario Hardesty RB from Tenn - 6.8 grade*

*per NFL.com grades

Too many holes to fill, sorry three bodies > one body for this team.

I was excited after the 1st day but the rest of the draft was wasted on moving up and that shit just doesn't fly with me anymore.

Same old fuckin Browns.
 
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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJJiHPqy8xE&feature=related]YouTube - Montario Hardesty highlights - 2009[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8uCPzHnWk4]YouTube - Clifton Geathers 2010 Highlights[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc8-gJqzWws]YouTube - Oregon safety TJ Ward absolutely crushes OSU QB Zac Robinson during the 2008 Holiday Bowl[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ovVFd_3zLE&feature=related]YouTube - TJ Ward knocks Cal WR Verran Tucker's helmet off during the 11/01/08 Oregon-Cal game[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09bS4zACxCM&feature=related]YouTube - Oregon safety TJ Ward stuffs Toby Gerhart 11-07-2009[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddm_AwNfUY8]YouTube - Carlton Mitchell Highlights 2009 - NFL Draft[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnO5IWjXFH4]YouTube - Larry Asante highlights Nebraska vs Kansas St[/ame]
 
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Some backstory on the McCoy pick from Peter King:

2010 NFL draft full of interesting scenarios, deft moves - Peter King - SI.com

I love these draft scenarios, in case you hadn't noticed. Here's another one: In Cleveland, midway through the third round, the Browns already had addressed cornerback, safety and running back; now they had two more priority positions to fill: defensive tackle and offensive tackle. They had picks 85 and 92. They had their two guys lined up from about the 70th pick on -- Kentucky defensive tackle Corey Peters and Arizona State tackle Shawn Lauvao. In the draft room, president Mike Holmgren, GM Tom Heckert and coach Eric Mangini, along with a few of the scouts, monitored the draft. Colt McCoy kept sliding.

"I had talked to Jon Gruden about Colt and he really liked him,'' Holmgren told me. "But Tom said we've got our plan, we like this defensive lineman and the offensive lineman, and we should go ahead and pick them. I kept saying, 'What about the quarterback?' ''

At number 83, two spots before the Browns were going to pick, Atlanta GM Dimitroff picked Peters, the defensive tackle the Browns had in their sights at 85.

"Then,'' Holmgren said, laughing, "the fates were telling me something. We had to pick him. I said to Tom, 'Let's pull the trigger.' I tried to run this draft the way Ron Wolf used to in Green Bay. Everyone contributed. But I kind of pulled rank a little bit. I said, 'Let's do this.'''

At the podium in Manhattan, Texas coach Mack Brown announced: "With the 85th pick in the 2010 NFL draft, the Cleveland Browns select Colt McCoy, quarterback, Texas.''

That's great and all. I'm glad they got McCoy and I now have a little more insight as to why Holmgren seemed to be passing off responsibility for this team's earlier picks. The story I'm more interested in is how they decided to move up to take Hardesty.
 
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jlb1705;1696273; said:
Some backstory on the McCoy pick from Peter King:

2010 NFL draft full of interesting scenarios, deft moves - Peter King - SI.com



That's great and all. I'm glad they got McCoy and I now have a little more insight as to why Holmgren seemed to be passing off responsibility for this team's earlier picks. The story I'm more interested in is how they decided to move up to take Hardesty.

Interesting that they like Lauvao at tackle. I know he played LT in college but he's only about 6'3".
 
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jlb1705;1696273; said:
The story I'm more interested in is how they decided to move up to take Hardesty.
Me too. Watching some of his highlights, I'm just not all that impressed. Looks like he's pretty strong and has decent vision, but he lacks the burst to really be all that effective IMO. Hell, he looks downright slow sometimes.
 
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I'm not real big into putting a grade on things like a draft especially when it just happened and none of these guys will be on NFL turf for a couple months bit with that being said. I think when we look back in three seasons this draft could range anywhere from a C to a B+. A lot depends on how those first couple picks turn out, I feel like there is a lot of boom or bust with this draft which colors me a little concerned. Although the Browns have made some solid moves throughout the offseason which gives them some more leeway. Although these are the guys that they wanted and they got them so lets see what happens.
 
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NFBuck;1696284; said:
Me too. Watching some of his highlights, I'm just not all that impressed. Looks like he's pretty strong and has decent vision, but he lacks the burst to really be all that effective IMO. Hell, he looks downright slow sometimes.


I said the exact same thing to my friends when they announced. He has alright top end speed, but just poor excelleration. Is vision is so-so but his lateral agility and cutting isn't great either.

One cut and go type RB.
 
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