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Cleveland Browns (2010 season)

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Buckeneye;1880714; said:
Maybe its just me, but I'm not too huge on Prince. I'm sorry, nothing against draft scouts - he's good, damn good. Great tackler too, but he really IMHO has average to below average recognition when the ball is in the air.

Like I said, probably just me... but I would be very unimpressed by taking him even in the middle of the 1st.

His game alone against Blackmon stands out. I understand we're talking about arguably the #1 overall WR if he would have come out. Prince reallly got abused by him a few times this year though.
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It's not just you. Justin Blankmon made him look like a fool last year. It was ridiculous.
 
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stowfan;1880737; said:
Jets released Vern, hope the Browns grab him:)
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Tough break for Big Vern, but it could be the best thing to happen to him. Put him on the edge with a hand on the ground... where he belongs. I'd love to see him in a Browns uniform and they definitely have a need at his position.
 
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Popped up on my Google Reader. Not sure how long it will play on youtube but fun to watch.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2011/02/video-reliving-colt-mccoys-rookie-season/

If you want to pretend to be a Cleveland Browns front office staff member and get your film study in, I found some good stuff on Youtube. I don?t know why I love finding vids like this, but it is after hours here at WFNY, so I figured I would share. Colt McCoy?s game against the Pats. Some great throws, some sketchy ones, and a whole lot of great plays with his feet.
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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WSJ2xmYoMw&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - Colt McCOY vs New England Patriots 2010 Week 9[/ame]

For fun, here is the Browns? trick play score against the Pats.
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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM77uExPycY&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - Cleveland Browns Trick "TD" Play vs NE Patriots[/ame]

Next up a significantly tougher game for McCoy against the Steelers.
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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlIpohoRdGM&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - Colt McCOY NFL Debut vs Pittsburg Steelers 2010 W6[/ame]
 
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Buckeneye;1880550; said:
No amount of secondary help can mask the huge deficiencies at the Dline. Especially depth.

Clayborne, Big Cam, Nevis, Dareus etc etc... that front 4 needs to be addressed. Mathias (NY) would be a great FA target. If not, I can see 2 picks being on the dline possibly - provided no worthy WR is available.
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The Browns, O-line, and defensive front seven, is pathetic compared to Pittsburgh and Baltimore. The good news is, this year's draft is loaded with DTs, and OTs. The Browns could draft a very good player at those positions as late as the fifth round.

Most years, players like that are gone by the middle of the second round. Because of the talent in the draft, there will be good players at those positions let go by other teams. Between the draft, free agents, and players claimed off of waivers, the Browns could get healthy very quickly.

Only because of the above, I would have no problem with the Browns taking Jones, or Green at wide receiver, or Peterson at CB, or even Von Miller in the first round. The one DT, I would not pass on is Dareus. From watching the combine, he is amazing, if he's there, take him.
 
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Buckeneye;1880878; said:
Hate to tell you, but Pittsburgh's O line is quite pathetic... has been for some time now.
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Hate to tell you, it just came to my attention, there appear to be degrees of pathetic. I know Pittsburgh gave up a ton of sacks, but they finish 11th in Rushing. The Browns were 20th, and I think Hillis is at last as good as the Steeler's backs.

Pittsburgh's finished only 14 best in total offense this past season, the Browns were 29. Their o-line albeit not great, is better than ours. Factor in their defensive front seven, and it's not a contest.:(
 
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stowfan;1880899; said:
Hate to tell you, it just came to my attention, there appear to be degrees of pathetic. I know Pittsburgh gave up a ton of sacks, but they finish 11th in Rushing. The Browns were 20th, and I think Hillis is at last as good as the Steeler's backs.

Pittsburgh's finished only 14 best in total offense this past season, the Browns were 29. Their o-line albeit not great, is better than ours. Factor in their defensive front seven, and it's not a contest.:(
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I think the problems you describe for the Browns stem from the lack of a passing game rather than major problems on the o-line. The Browns have come a long way in that department over the last few years, and while Pouncey was a good rookie for Pittsburgh, on the whole I wouldn't trade the Browns o-line for theirs.

On the other hand, compare Pittsburgh to the Browns at the skill positions for the passing game... They are better at every position on the depth chart at QB, WR & TE. They have skill and depth and are a legitimate threat to beat other teams through the air. That helps open up the running game and mask some of the deficiencies in their o-line.

The Browns running game was below average and the offense overall was putrid because other teams didn't have to respect the pass. These days in the NFL you can't just line up with a decent o-line and a battering ram of a RB and impose your will for most of a season. As we saw with the Browns, that works situationally or against certain teams but it can't be the basis for the entire offense.

Address the skill positions in the passing game and continue to develop McCoy and I bet the output from the running game will rise as well.
 
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jlb1705;1880901; said:
I think the problems you describe for the Browns stem from the lack of a passing game rather than major problems on the o-line. The Browns have come a long way in that department over the last few years, and while Pouncey was a good rookie for Pittsburgh, on the whole I wouldn't trade the Browns o-line for theirs.

On the other hand, compare Pittsburgh to the Browns at the skill positions for the passing game... They are better at every position on the depth chart at QB, WR & TE. They have skill and depth and are a legitimate threat to beat other teams through the air. That helps open up the running game and mask some of the deficiencies in their o-line.

The Browns running game was below average and the offense overall was putrid because other teams didn't have to respect the pass. These days in the NFL you can't just line up with a decent o-line and a battering ram of a RB and impose your will for most of a season. As we saw with the Browns, that works situationally or against certain teams but it can't be the basis for the entire offense.

Address the skill positions in the passing game and continue to develop McCoy and I bet the output from the running game will rise as well.
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I agree with all most all of what you said. Here is my take on the Browns o-line: Thomas, and Steinbach are better than what Pittsburgh has on hand, and Mack is a wash. Womack is just fine, BUT, John St.Clair is the worst NFL RT, I have EVER seen.

In 2009 Mangini, brought in ST.Clair, Womack, and drafted Mack. The back ups were Fraley, and Hadnoght. When StClair, went down with an injury, Womack moved outside, and the back ups stepped in. The last 5 games of 2009, I thought the Browns o-line was one of the best in football, better than Pittsburgh.

2010, our two very serviceable back ups, Fraley, and Hanoght were let go.
They were replaced by Shawn Lavelo, and Tony Pashos. Lavelo showed very little last year, and may be over matched in the NFL. Pashos continued his (well known) career of being injured where ever he has gone, and was a complete waste of money. My point is, the o-line was not improved at all in 2010, it went backward.
 
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stowfan;1880907; said:
I agree with all most all of what you said. Here is my take on the Browns o-line: Thomas, and Steinbach are better than what Pittsburgh has on hand, and Mack is a wash. Womack is just fine, BUT, John St.Clair is the worst NFL RT, I have EVER seen.

In 2009 Mangini, brought in ST.Clair, Womack, and drafted Mack. The back ups were Fraley, and Hadnoght. When StClair, went down with an injury, Womack moved outside, and the back ups stepped in. The last 5 games of 2009, I thought the Browns o-line was one of the best in football, better than Pittsburgh.

2010, our two very serviceable back ups, Fraley, and Hanoght were let go.
They were replaced by Shawn Lavelo, and Tony Pashos. Lavelo showed very little last year, and may be over matched in the NFL. Pashos continued his (well known) career of being injured where ever he has gone, and was a complete waste of money. My point is, the o-line was not improved at all in 2010, it went backward.
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So your contention is really that RT and depth sucks?

And I suppose that is a problem for the unit as a whole, but, I'd say the Pittsburgh has the same problem. And, of course Roflberger's size, experience and "escapability" (See that, QB jargon) as well as the receivers kind of overcome a lot of those problems.

Having said that, doesn't really matter, we need more guys at a lot of places.
 
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stowfan;1880907; said:
I agree with all most all of what you said. Here is my take on the Browns o-line: Thomas, and Steinbach are better than what Pittsburgh has on hand, and Mack is a wash. Womack is just fine, BUT, John St.Clair is the worst NFL RT, I have EVER seen.

In 2009 Mangini, brought in ST.Clair, Womack, and drafted Mack. The back ups were Fraley, and Hadnoght. When StClair, went down with an injury, Womack moved outside, and the back ups stepped in. The last 5 games of 2009, I thought the Browns o-line was one of the best in football, better than Pittsburgh.

2010, our two very serviceable back ups, Fraley, and Hanoght were let go.
They were replaced by Shawn Lavelo, and Tony Pashos. Lavelo showed very little last year, and may be over matched in the NFL. Pashos continued his (well known) career of being injured where ever he has gone, and was a complete waste of money. My point is, the o-line was not improved at all in 2010, it went backward.
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I'd love to see the Browns get Cam (if somehow he's there in the 2nd), Chekwa, and Boren in the draft this year and Vern as a FA. I'd use the first rounder on Green if he's available and if not try to trade down. The biggest need on offense is a #1 WR and help on the right side of the OL. They need to add 2-3 DL, a LB, and at least one CB that can cover and tackle.
How did Floyd from ND do in the 40? He always impressed me even though he was surrounded by shitty talent. Could be a good 2nd or 3rd round WR if they can't get Green. The draft does seem crazy deep this year.
 
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