• Follow us on Twitter @buckeyeplanet and @bp_recruiting, like us on Facebook! Enjoy a post or article, recommend it to others! BP is only as strong as its community, and we only promote by word of mouth, so share away!
  • Consider registering! Fewer and higher quality ads, no emails you don't want, access to all the forums, download game torrents, private messages, polls, Sportsbook, etc. Even if you just want to lurk, there are a lot of good reasons to register!

CBS names All-Decade Team

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sort by date Sort by votes
DaddyBigBucks;1516982; said:
My favorite anecdote about the importance of the supporting cast to the QB position involves Jerry Rice. I don't have numbers to back it up, but I remember vividly that his college QB got as much pub as he did. Anybody remember his name? Didn't think so.

My second favorite anecdote involves LaDainian Tomlinson. In 1999, LT gained 6.9 yards per carry and beat Ron Dayne for the rushing crown on 35 fewer carries. The next year, as defenses keyed on LT and his yards per carry dropped to 5.85; his QB's passing efficiency rocketed from 133.5 (1999) to 156.7 (2000). In 2001, after LT had moved on to the league he was born to play in, the QB's passing efficiency plummeted to 125.4.

I discovered this when I was asked (by BKB I think) to do a study on year-to-year improvement in skill position players. I can say unequivocally that this was the biggest year-to-year drop in passing efficiency by one player going back to 1999 (at least). And it was caused entirely by the departure of a running back.

For those who are wondering, the name of LT's quarterback was Casey Printers. Back in pre-season 2001 he was considered a candidate for All-American... seriously. Then people saw him in a different light when they saw him with a different supporting cast.
Click to expand...

I agree with what you are saying, but I would not be me if I didn't needle you for the use of "rocketed" and "plummeted." Um. It went from 133.5 to 156.7 to 125.4. Hyperbole much?

:biggrin:

(But yes I totally agree with your point.)
 
Upvote 0
VY could take over a game, yeah, but it took him a redshirt year, a RS freshmen year, and his sophomore year to really 'get it'. He took over the Rose Bowl against Michigan and USC, yeah, and he CAN be dominant. He probably has a higher athletic ceiling than Tebow, too. As a college player, though, I'd take Tebow. More production over a longer period of time, topped with an equal level of success (in terms of championships). I'd like to see how Tebow does against a really dominant defense (which he has only seen once or twice; LSU in 2007 comes to mind); whereas VY took down the 2005 USC D (which was pretty damn good), Tebow doesn't have a signature moment like that.

I give Tebow the edge, but I think it's really a push and just depends upon your preference.
 
Upvote 0
TheIronColonel;1517143; said:
VY could take over a game, yeah, but it took him a redshirt year, a RS freshmen year, and his sophomore year to really 'get it'. He took over the Rose Bowl against Michigan and USC, yeah, and he CAN be dominant. He probably has a higher athletic ceiling than Tebow, too. As a college player, though, I'd take Tebow. More production over a longer period of time, topped with an equal level of success (in terms of championships). I'd like to see how Tebow does against a really dominant defense (which he has only seen once or twice; LSU in 2007 comes to mind); whereas VY took down the 2005 USC D (which was pretty damn good), Tebow doesn't have a signature moment like that.

I give Tebow the edge, but I think it's really a push and just depends upon your preference.
Click to expand...

I agree with that. I've been a Tebow fan from day one. He has a little Beanie power in his running and great QB skills

I just meant Young over espn/usc Loser.
 
Upvote 0
There are always more than one or two ways to look at things.

One can point out that Tebow took over at QB for a defending national champion, and in 2 years as a starter has gone only 22-5, which is a winning % that's not really close to Leinart or VY, (or even Ken Dorsey or Craig Krenzel).

Record as a starter:

38-2 .950 Dorsey
37-2 .948 Leinart
30-2 .938 Young
24-3 .889 Krenzel
22-5 .815 Tebow

I'm not saying krenzel was better than Tebow, I'm just saying that it's easy to construct an argument that Tebow shouldn't be an easy choice for all-decade QB.

And one could point out that if Penn State didn't lose at Iowa last year, there wouldn't be a plaque commemerating his post-Ole Miss speech, since Florida would have been in the Sugar Bowl.

And one could point out that in his Heisman year of becoming the first and only player to run for 20 TDs and throw for 20 TDs, he wasn't even the only QB to have 20 TD passes and 20 TDs scored that season. (I know that doesn't sound possible at first glance, but it's true).

Depending on your point of view, that could be considered either Tebow-hate or plain old perspective.
 
Upvote 0
BB73;1517149; said:
There are always more than one or two ways to look at things.

One can point out that Tebow took over at QB for a defending national champion, and in 2 years as a starter has gone only 22-5, which is a winning % that's not really close to Leinart or VY, (or even Ken Dorsey or Craig Krenzel).

Record as a starter:

38-2 .950 Dorsey
37-2 .948 Leinart
30-2 .938 Young
24-3 .889 Krenzel
22-5 .815 Tebow

And one could point out that if Penn State didn't lose at Iowa last year, there wouldn't be a plaque commemerating his post-Ole Miss speech, since Florida would have been in the Sugar Bowl.

Depending on your point of view, that could be considered either Tebow-hate or plain old perspective.
Click to expand...


bluesbrothers425-757368.jpg


Don't you blaspheme in here!!
 
Upvote 0
kinch;1517125; said:
I agree with what you are saying, but I would not be me if I didn't needle you for the use of "rocketed" and "plummeted." Um. It went from 133.5 to 156.7 to 125.4. Hyperbole much?

:biggrin:

(But yes I totally agree with your point.)
Click to expand...

And I would not be me if I didn't answer with the following:

When you consider the rarity of that sort of change in PE from one year to the next by one player (in fact, in the case of the "Plummet", it's the only time it's ever happened); then yeah, I think that sort of description is warranted.

Consider the rankings... The 156.7 was fourth in the country. The 125.4 was fifty seventh. That's a plummet.
 
Upvote 0
If I were picking an all-decade team, some of my decisions would depend on whether I were imagining this team competing for just one year or for 4 years. I prefer to choose players based on how good they were in their best season, but a lot of people prefer to look at a whole career. I would take 2005 Vince Young over any quarterback this decade, but I understand that if you wanted to pick a quarterback based on a full college career, Tim Tebow would be a great choice.

For me Tebow has not even been the best QB in the country for any single season, let alone the decade, but he probably has had the best career. In my opinion, the best college quarterback for each of Tebow's 3 seasons were:

2006 JaMarcus Russell
2007 Dennis Dixon
2008 Sam Bradford

Edit: I have reconsidered and would list Troy Smith as the best college quarterback of 2006. JaMarcus Russell would be second, Brady Quinn third.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Really? JaMarcus Russell? Even if you don't think TS was the best CFB QB that year (and there's a good argument to be made against him), JaMarcus Russell never really impressed me at all as a college quarterback (and even less as a pro quarterback).
 
Upvote 0
Jaxbuck;1516709; said:
College football has been played for well over 100 years and your all time top 10 QB list contains 3 guys from the last 8 years or so and you ask me if I'm joking?

Educate yourself and give some respect to the people who played the game before ESPiN became the molder of public opinion that it is today.
Click to expand...


LOL at your entire argument. Just because football has been played for over 100 years means we should ignore some great accomplishments of recent players.

Let's use your timeline of 100 years (even though we both know football has been played before that). That means 1909 is when I should start considering QB's for the greatest ever.

I don't consider any worth mentioning until Sammy Baugh. Then I have no one on my Top 10 list until Jim Plunkett and Roger Staubach. From there we can consider guys like Archie Manning, Steve Spurrier, Jim McMahon, Doug Flutie, Jon Elway, etc but honestly I don't think they are as good until Charlie Ward. I then have Charlie Ward, Tommy Fraizer, Peyton Manning, and Danny Wuerffuel in the 90's. Not saying that those other guys I mentioned or guys like Troy Aikman, Ty Detmer, Chuck Long, etc arent GREAT players because they are but I have these other guys just a little bit higher. I mean you can disagree with me, but to say that you wont even finish my post because it is soo unthinkable that those three should be mentioned is foolish.

I don't have Elway up there because of his production at Stanford. He is a top 3 pro QB and the most talented QB ever, but in college he doesnt crack my top 10 personally.

Basically my Top 10 QB's of all time look like this (no order):
Sammy Baugh
Jim Plunkett
Roger Staubach
Charlie Ward
Tommy Fraizer
Danny Wuerffuel
Peyton Manning
Matt Leinart
Vince Young
Tim Tebow

Let me see your list before you begin to judge?

And to the person who said "Well other QB's have won the heisman before". I didnt use the Heisman as my only critiera for getting on the list. When I gave the credentials of these guys I mentioned that two of them won the award, that between all three of them they have 4 NC's, and over 80 wins and less than 15 losses.

I mean have you watched Vince Young and Matt Leinart play? Vince Young carried his team to two rose bowl victories, a national championship, and a victory over tOSU in the shoe. It's not about just things you can list on a post. Did you watch the two Rose Bowls and the game vs. OSU? Or the multiple times he had 200 yards passing and 200 yards rushing to help get his team into the title game?

Leinart from Day 1 as a starter was a All-American. Yeah he had a lot of talent around him, but he was still able to beat guys like Matt Cassell for the starting job ans just because you have talent doesnt mean you always have success (Chris Rix, Brock Berlin). He is one of the most efficent and productive pro-style QB's ever. I mean how is this a fucking reach?

Tebow you can have a solid argument with, but personally I feel he is up there. He has had a complete career in 3 years, and he has the chance to win his 2nd heisman and 3rd National Title. When someone like Bobby Bowden compares Tebow to Bronco Nagurski you should pay attention. I mean if you want to leave him off for a Elway or Flutie then go ahead, but I personally feel he is a special player.

I don't think it's such a reach to have three GREAT QB's on this list. Just because they happen to have been around recently means jack shit. Does this mean I can't have Herschel Walker, Barry Sanders, and Bo Jackson on my Top 10 RB list since they all played in the 80's.

I'm sorry I don't have Johnny Lujack, Davey O'Brien, John Huarte, etc on my list from when my dad was a kid. You shouldnt just throw down old players names to seem fair.

Oh yeah BTW Scout agrees with me on two of the three (This is before Tebow):
Scout.com: Tuesday Question - All-Time Greatest QBs

So I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you, and please from now on dont talk to me like I don't know football before 2000.

:biggrin:
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top