Cavs 08-09 Season - Central Div Champs (official thread)

[billmac91]

Being the J Rich and Shaq trades? Diaw is only good as a starter, he plays for [censored] coming off the bench, and Bell a shell of his old self. And Shaq is playing great ...and Marion is in the "didn't you use to be" category.

No comparisson. Wally is an overpaid mid level player , Hickson a project and a 1st round pick that will probably be late. It would go down as one of the worst trades of all time... and yes for the Suns.

One year ago I would have argued till I was blue in the face that Amare was one of the top 5-10 players in the league. He still has the ability. The Shaq trade threw his game off... and Terry Porter drilled everyones game into the garbage.

The intensity and unity is completely lost for Phoenix. You can tell by their body language...no intense high fives, chest bumping or running over to help a teammate up.

They should be building the team around Amare instead of shopping him.

Kerr and Sarver have dismantled things pretty bad. Porter turned out to be a bad fit for the cast. I love Shaq, but his amazing turnaround also foiled his planned use.

Gentry should bring back some up tempo.. and needs to find a way to build around Shaq and Amare, not ship Amare off for a pile of [censored] and a six pack.

If that trade ever went down...I will denounce my Suns fanship.

Do you really see A'mare resigning in 2010 though?? It doesn't sound like A'mare is on board for that...things can change, but it appears he wants to sign a max deal with a contender. Phoenix will be in rebuild mode. Why not get some value for him now, and begin the rebuilding ASAP vs. waiting for A'mare to take a walk?

And the Shaq trade was idiotic. And Boris Diaw and Raja Bell was a bad deal for J-Rich, who has gotten in trouble again.

I'll still never see why Phoenix felt the need to change philosophies when they had the best team in the league in 2007 and got screwed out of the Western Conferenece Finals. It wasn't as if their philosophy was proven to be unsuccessful...they should have won that series, and caught several awful breaks. But somehow that series, proved they needed to change philosophies and bring in a half-court center that began the cycle of over-hauling the roster and tempo.

 

[billmac91]

According to ESPN, the Bulls are (or might be) offering Tyrus Thomas and Gooden (expiring contract). And maybe another player, or a first.

I don't watch or pay much attention to the NBA, aside from the Cavs, but the Bulls (potential) offer seems like it'd be more valuable if they throw in a first round pick.

I think Tyrus Thomas has proven to be a pretty one-dimensional player. I think most GM's would take Hickson if given the choice. Although I can see Thomas being more appealing to Phoenix if they decide they want to go back to being a fast tempo team. Hickson is a lot more valuable to a half-court team because of his shooting ability and low post capabilities. Thomas can't shoot, and only scores under the hoop, but he's amazingly athletic and good in a transition game. The Bulls first round pick is obviously a lot more valuable than the Cavs pick.

One other point on this is, Gooden's contract is only 7.5 mill. Phoenix can acquire a good player in Hickson, and have 14 mill to spend this off-season. Tyrus Thomas' and Drew Goodens' contracts don't match the 15 mill Stat makes so more players would need to be involved.

I actually think acquiring Hickson, and then having 14 mill would be more valubale than Tyrus Thomas and 7.5 mill this off-season. 15 mill is a big time player vs. a mid-level player for 7.5 mill.

 

[starBUCKS]

Do you really see A'mare resigning in 2010 though?? It doesn't sound like A'mare is on board for that...things can change, but it appears he wants to sign a max deal with a contender. Phoenix will be in rebuild mode. Why not get some value for him now, and begin the rebuilding ASAP vs. waiting for A'mare to take a walk?

And the Shaq trade was idiotic. And Boris Diaw and Raja Bell was a bad deal for J-Rich, who has gotten in trouble again.

I'll still never see why Phoenix felt the need to change philosophies when they had the best team in the league in 2007 and got screwed out of the Western Conferenece Finals. It wasn't as if their philosophy was proven to be unsuccessful...they should have won that series, and caught several awful breaks. But somehow that series, proved they needed to change philosophies and bring in a half-court center that began the cycle of over-hauling the roster and tempo.

I could see the Amare situation as being very fixable. Yes he could re-sign in 2010, with the right commitment from him and the Suns.

I feel the Cavs trade is a bunk deal. I liked other deals out there that have named better prospects. For example.... i would jump at a deal for Lamarcus Aldridge, Raef Lafrentz and Jerrod Bayless. That's a rebuilding move... the rumored Cavs deal is crap.

We've had our differences on the Shaq trade... and many people see it different ways. As I said, his excellent play kinda spoiled things. He was supposed to be the force down low in the 1st and 4th quarters originally. Now, he's playing at a high caliber with a team that would rather run for 4 quarters.

J Rich... in trouble for speeding... we all do it, maybe not with three year olds in the back, but he wasn't exactly recieving blow jobs on the corner.
Diaw and Bell were becoming cancers. They were vocal about their disatifaction with Porter. They may have been right, but you shouldn't publicly do that. Bell has played like crap for 2 years... and as I said Diaw is only good as a starter. J Rich may flourish under Gentry.

Good or bad... you can't compare the values of those trades to this rumored trade with the Cavs in question.

Things did get screwed up. But it all starts with Sarver... and in turn his friend Steve Kerr...and then his friend Terry Porter.

Still fixable... but I'm not sure Sarver is man enough to correct his faults.

 

[jlb1705]

Being the J Rich and Shaq trades? Diaw is only good as a starter, he plays for [censored] coming off the bench, and Bell a shell of his old self. And Shaq is playing great ...and Marion is in the "didn't you use to be" category.

We'll agree to disagree I guess. I thought all of those players they traded away fit their system pretty well. Shaq - even though he's playing better this year - did not fit what they were doing at all.

No comparisson. Wally is an overpaid mid level player , Hickson a project and a 1st round pick that will probably be late. It would go down as one of the worst trades of all time... and yes for the Suns.

Wally being an overpaid mid-level player is the entire point. The Suns are going nowhere this year, and his salary comes off the books in the off-season giving whatever team he'll be with at that time a significant amount of cap space. I'm not sure what that comment about Hickson is supposed to mean (late?) but I'm not gonna argue with you if you don't think much of him.

Have you seen the package involving the Bulls that's being floated? Tyrus Thomas plus either Drew Gooden (who would clear half as much cap space as Wally) or Larry Hughes (who is overpaid like Wally, but would suck balls for your team for an additional year). I realize you haven't been on here advocating for that deal over the one rumored for the Cavs, but if that's what's out there for a player that's likely gonna bolt when his deal's up, I think you have to consider getting something of value while you can.

I think Amare is an excellent player though, and I can certainly understand why you'd be so strongly opposed to giving him up.

 

[billmac91]

I could see the Amare situation as being very fixable. Yes he could re-sign in 2010, with the right commitment from him and the Suns.

I feel the Cavs trade is a bunk deal. I liked other deals out there that have named better prospects. For example.... i would jump at a deal for Lamarcus Aldridge, Raef Lafrentz and Jerrod Bayless. That's a rebuilding move... the rumored Cavs deal is crap.

We've had our differences on the Shaq trade... and many people see it different ways. As I said, his excellent play kinda spoiled things. He was supposed to be the force down low in the 1st and 4th quarters originally. Now, he's playing at a high caliber with a team that would rather run for 4 quarters.

J Rich... in trouble for speeding... we all do it, maybe not with three year olds in the back, but he wasn't exactly recieving blow jobs on the corner.
Diaw and Bell were becoming cancers. They were vocal about their disatifaction with Porter. They may have been right, but you shouldn't publicly do that. Bell has played like crap for 2 years... and as I said Diaw is only good as a starter. J Rich may flourish under Gentry.

Good or bad... you can't compare the values of those trades to this rumored trade with the Cavs in question.

Things did get screwed up. But it all starts with Sarver... and in turn his friend Steve Kerr...and then his friend Terry Porter.

Still fixable... but I'm not sure Sarver is man enough to correct his faults.

In regards to J-Rich, many people speed, but not many people travel 95 in a 35 with a 3 year old in the backseat. And this coming off of a DUI in December. My opinion of him has gone right down the toilet...

The Aldridge, Bayless, LaFrentz deal is an awful move for Portland. I doubt any serious consideration was put into that by Portland....Aldridge is already a great PF, and then they're going to package their 1st round pick and an expiring contract with it??

Phoenix doesn't have the leverage in this deal, so they're going to get less value back. Most teams know A'mare is looking for a way out, and the best thing Phoenix can do is take on expiring contracts. That is why Wally is worth his weight in gold regardless of where he is shipped should the Cavs make a move. While you won't get the value back in Wally, that 14 mill this summer paired with JJ and a first round pick ain't bad.....

I understand your position, but I think Phoenix is in a lot worse shape than you are letting on. Nash is on his last legs, Shaq is playing well, but is only good for this season, Grant Hill is 36, and the Phoenix bench is average at best with few players outside of Barbosa who could become future starters.

 

[LitlBuck]

We'll agree to disagree I guess. I thought all of those players they traded away fit their system pretty well. Shaq - even though he's playing better this year - did not fit what they were doing at all.

Wally being an overpaid mid-level player is the entire point. The Suns are going nowhere this year, and his salary comes off the books in the off-season giving whatever team he'll be with at that time a significant amount of cap space. I'm not sure what that comment about Hickson is supposed to mean (late?) but I'm not gonna argue with you if you don't think much of him..

He meant late pick in the first round because Cleveland will finish so high in the standings when the season is over.

 

[jlb1705]

He meant late pick in the first round because Cleveland will finish so high in the standings when the season is over.

Got it. I thought he was describing Hickson as having been a 1st round pick, not describing a future pick that would be packaged with him.

 

[Brutus1]

I want Marcus Camby. He won't cost as much as Amare and he's a defensive stud. Plus, Donald Sterling is a tool.

 

[BuckeyeMafia]

Either one of these guys, we need to make a move. This team will not beat the Lakers in the Finals as it stands now.

 

[aurorabuckeye13]

I want Marcus Camby. He won't cost as much as Amare and he's a defensive stud. Plus, Donald Sterling is a tool.

I completely agree... I really don't want to give up the Cavs best first round draft pick since LeBron. Hickson really has good potential and I would hate to see him become a very good PF somewhere else. I would take Camby for expiring contracts and call it a day, and like our chances to make a run at the title.

 

[gracelhink]

I completely agree... I really don't want to give up the Cavs best first round draft pick since LeBron. Hickson really has good potential and I would hate to see him become a very good PF somewhere else. I would take Camby for expiring contracts and call it a day, and like our chances to make a run at the title.

Agree about Hickson, he has much upside.
About expiring contracts, don't want to give them all away, . . .
Cavs will need cap room following '10 to make a run at the Bron sweepstakes.

 

[BengalsAndBucks]

Chad Ford: Five deals that <i>should</i> happen at the NBA trade deadline - ESPN

5. Cavs trade Wally Szczerbiak to the Wizards for Antawn Jamison and Etan Thomas.

Jamison

Szczerbiak
? View this deal in the ESPN Trade Machine
Why should the Cavs do it?
The team wants to win a title now and could use an upgrade at the 4. Adding Jamison would give the Cavs another dynamic scorer and veteran.
Why should the Wizards do it?
Because they are paying a huge amount of money for one of the worst teams in basketball. When Gilbert Arenas returns, they'll be better, but by how much? This deal would put them slightly below the cap next year.
Will it happen?
The Cavs are looking at potential Szczerbiak deals and Jamison isn't the only guy they covet. Mike Miller and Vince Carter have also been mentioned.

Shocking to me that Wally's contract is THAT bad, that they can trade him straight up for one very good player and one decent player. This move, coupled with Bynum being out right now, would make Cleveland the definitive title favorites IMO.

 

[stowfan]

I would love that trade. Also Wally and a draft pick for Marcus Camby would hit the spot. I would not part with JJ!

 

[aurorabuckeye13]

Chad Ford: Five deals that <i>should</i> happen at the NBA trade deadline - ESPN






Shocking to me that Wally's contract is THAT bad, that they can trade him straight up for one very good player and one decent player. This move, coupled with Bynum being out right now, would make Cleveland the definitive title favorites IMO.

Would be a great move... If we can get a quality player for just expiring contracts without giving up a good young player (Hickson, Boobie, Andy) I would be thrilled and would feel confident with this team heading into the playoffs. Plus Wally for those two guys wouldn't upset chemistry at all because Jamison and Thomas are both solid locker room guys.

 

[LitlBuck]

Cleveland.com

Marcus Camby might be the name on top of the Cleveland Cavaliers wish list
by Brian Windhorst / The Plain Dealer
Tuesday February 17, 2009, 9:52 AM

From the above article maybe there is some smoke to the trade with the Wizards

Here's is an updated breakdown of players linked to the Cavs:

Marcus Camby, Clippers: A strong defensive player who can also score inside and out, this is the kind of big man the Cavs would want. Plus the Clippers probably want to dump salary. However, it is unclear whether he's truly available and recently the answer has been "no."

Chris Kaman, Clippers: Only included because fans keep asking about him. He's been out months with injury and has a contract that runs past 2010. 0 percent chance.

Vince Carter, Nets: Forget what you read elsewhere. Cavs are not interested. Doesn't sound like the Nets will make any trade.

Richard Jefferson, Bucks: There's a chance he'll be traded but not to Cleveland. Bucks already gave the Cavs a free big-time player.


Caron Butler and Antawn Jamison, Wizards: GM Ernie Grunfeld told the Washington Times: "Over the course of the last four or five years, we established ourselves as a winning organization, and we want to keep going that way. Once we get everybody back, get all of our pieces
together, we can be a very competitive team." In other words, no trade.

Brad Miller, Kings: The Cavs could've had Miller anytime in the last month if they wanted. They are still considering it but aren't sure if he's that much of an upgrade considering the risk to team chemistry. He's also not having a very good year, is in questionable shape, and is coming off a drug suspension.

Tyson Chandler, Hornets: He's an intriguing name, however the Hornets will want a quality big man or two in return and it is questionable how effective his complete game is.