Cavs 08-09 Season - Central Div Champs (official thread)

[billmac91]

maybe West is serious about going over-seas?

I hate Mo Williams contract too.....it just seemsmore and more they are content to look for above-average role players rather than going balls to the walls on a legit #2.

I still can't think of a team that won the championship without two bona-fide stars.

2007 Garnett-Pierce
2006 Tony Parker-Tim Duncan
2005 Dwayne Wade-Shaq
2004 Tony Parker-Tim Duncan
2003 Sheed-Rip-Chauncey
2002 Tony Parker-Tim Duncan-David Robinson
2001 kOBE-Shaq
2000 Kobe-Shaq
1999 Kobe-Shaq
1998 Duncan - Robinson
1997 Jordan-Pippen
1996 Jordan-Pippen
1995 Jordan-Pippen
1994 Olajuwon-Drexler

Honestly, the list just keeps going...Jordan Pippen a few times, then you get to the great Lakers and Pistons teams, then comes Boston with Bird-McHale-Parrish.

The Cavs can keep adding good players to the roster, but until LeBron gets a legit #2 I don't really care. It just feels like they keep spinning their wheels. Get him a legit #2. Even LeBron isn't good enough to win a title with 4 good role players...San Antonio dismantled us.

I haven't looked too closely at the contract, aside from seeing Mo is set to make what looks like close to 8 or 9 mil a year.....that can't help in getting LeBron the #2 he needs.

 

[LitlBuck]

Now just get them to unload Redd to the Cavs at the trade deadline and we'll be set.

Even if we would get rid of Wally by trading him to Milwaukee with the salary that Williams has where would we get the money For Redd.

 

[Brutus1]

maybe West is serious about going over-seas?

I hate Mo Williams contract too.....it just seemsmore and more they are content to look for above-average role players rather than going balls to the walls on a legit #2.

I still can't think of a team that won the championship without two bona-fide stars.

2007 Garnett-Pierce
2006 Tony Parker-Tim Duncan
2005 Dwayne Wade-Shaq
2004 Tony Parker-Tim Duncan
2003 Sheed-Rip-Chauncey
2002 Tony Parker-Tim Duncan-David Robinson
2001 kOBE-Shaq
2000 Kobe-Shaq
1999 Kobe-Shaq
1998 Duncan - Robinson
1997 Jordan-Pippen
1996 Jordan-Pippen
1995 Jordan-Pippen
1994 Olajuwon-Drexler

Honestly, the list just keeps going...Jordan Pippen a few times, then you get to the great Lakers and Pistons teams, then comes Boston with Bird-McHale-Parrish.

The Cavs can keep adding good players to the roster, but until LeBron gets a legit #2 I don't really care. It just feels like they keep spinning their wheels. Get him a legit #2. Even LeBron isn't good enough to win a title with 4 good role players...San Antonio dismantled us.

I haven't looked too closely at the contract, aside from seeing Mo is set to make what looks like close to 8 or 9 mil a year.....that can't help in getting LeBron the #2 he needs.

How exactly do you propose they get a #2? No one in their right mind will trade a #2 for the garbage that Cleveland can give in return. You can't get a #2 drafting late. The only way they will get a #2 is when a big chunk of money comes off the books and there is a #2 available via free agency. Even that's no guarantee when the original team can go more years than Cleveland. They offered
Redd the max, he turned them down. They offered Allen the max, he turned them down.

They just have to do the best they can with what they've got.

 

[TRON]

Mo can take it to the rim and is a nice player off LBJ. The Cavs still have work to do, but I believe they are on the way.

Good trade.

 

[starBUCKS]

Great pick up!

 

[NFBuck]

I like it.

Mo Williams is the kinda player/creator they've been lacking since LBJ came in and it also unloads some dead weight. Smith was a nice guy to have on the bench, but he's old. Hickson has been getting rave reviews and I think he'll be ready to contribute significantly by the end of the season. Williams can shoot and can also take it to the hole, someting we've been lacking in one player this whole time. He played very well in Milwaukee and with a player of LBJ's quality in the frontcourt, he could be even better for the Cavs. Good trade.

 

[Bernini]

The Bucks aren't done dealing. Maurice Williams will definitely be wearing another uniform because he's not a table setter like his current complimentary personnel requires (Jefferson and Redd aren't individual playmakers) and he and Redd simply allow too much defensive penetration together. He'll probably be traded as part of a package for a 4. Then we'll deal Villanueva + Desmond Mason for a guy like Hinrich. Or solely Villanueva for Felton. Something like that. We'll be in the playoffs for sure. How far we'll go depends on how shrewd and aggressive Hammond is the remainder of this offseason. Stay tuned.

Well, I was right about the bolded part. Not so much about the position or quality of return we'd demand. If the Bucks were to acquire such mediocre players at least one could have played power forward with the attributes we needed like defense or jump shot, like Joe Smith. The part that irked me the most maybe was involving Desmond Mason in the deal. If we were going to completely salary dump why do we relinquish an expiring contract. The Bucks were on pace to seriously flirt with the luxury tax next season, but this deal only cleared about 1.5 million dollars in space under next offseason because of the inclusion of Mason.

In regards for Mo Williams, he was a terrible fit for the Bucks' squad and would be for a good majority of teams in the NBA, but not really for the Cavs. The Bucks don't have players who create for themselves or their teammates, so Williams was expected to do both, yet he could only do the latter. Vision/Awareness is not a strength, he's essentially a small combo guard with a good handle. But his role in Cleveland I'd imagine will be much different. Williams brings the ball up the court against pressure, reduces Bron's workload, then dumps it off in the halfcourt for him to operate. So he's playing off the ball in the halfcourt and he'll just be expected to shoot and slash when the defense runs at him later in the clock. That's what the Cavs apparently have been searching for the last few years in Hughes, West, Booby, D-Jones, etc.; and Mo excels in those areas more than anyone in that group.

I don't know that he'll allow you to surpass the Celtics alone before Lebron is up for free agency.....but I don't appreciate we've given a team in our own conference a better shot to win a championship.

 

[billmac91]

How exactly do you propose they get a #2? No one in their right mind will trade a #2 for the garbage that Cleveland can give in return. You can't get a #2 drafting late. The only way they will get a #2 is when a big chunk of money comes off the books and there is a #2 available via free agency. Even that's no guarantee when the original team can go more years than Cleveland. They offered
Redd the max, he turned them down. They offered Allen the max, he turned them down.

They just have to do the best they can with what they've got.

I'm not really sure....Danny Ainge found a way with a load of crap though. I'd think an expiring contract or two, paired with a first rounder could entice some team to take a look. I'd think a combination of Damon Jones and Wally at the deadline with a first round pick would look really nice to a team who has no shot at the playoffs and needs to be restructured. That won't happen now. Maybe they've got something cooking with Wally and Sasha/Wild Thing, who knows? Picking up an above average PG at 8-9 mil a year, certainly makes acquiring a legit #2 more difficult come free agency next year.

The bottom line is LeBron needs a #2. So, getting Mo Williams is a nice pick-up, especially if West bolts for Europe, but it's just another acquisition that looks nice on the surface, but doesn't get us that much closer to a title or what LeBron wants.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Well, I was right about the bolded part. Not so much about the position or quality of return we'd demand. If the Bucks were to acquire such mediocre players at least one could have played power forward with the attributes we needed like defense or jump shot, like Joe Smith. The part that irked me the most maybe was involving Desmond Mason in the deal. If we were going to completely salary dump why do we relinquish an expiring contract. The Bucks were on pace to seriously flirt with the luxury tax next season, but this deal only cleared about 1.5 million dollars in space under next offseason because of the inclusion of Mason.

In regards for Mo Williams, he was a terrible fit for the Bucks' squad and would be for a good majority of teams in the NBA, but not really for the Cavs. The Bucks don't have players who create for themselves or their teammates, so Williams was expected to do both, yet he could only do the latter. Vision/Awareness is not a strength, he's essentially a small combo guard with a good handle. But his role in Cleveland I'd imagine will be much different. Williams brings the ball up the court against pressure, reduces Bron's workload, then dumps it off in the halfcourt for him to operate. So he's playing off the ball in the halfcourt and he'll just be expected to shoot and slash when the defense runs at him later in the clock. That's what the Cavs apparently have been searching for the last few years in Hughes, West, Booby, D-Jones, etc.; and Mo excels in those areas more than anyone in that group.

I don't know that he'll allow you to surpass the Celtics alone before Lebron is up for free agency.....but I don't appreciate we've given a team in our own conference a better shot to win a championship.

Thanks for the first hand info...I agree how Williams will be used, and 6.3 assts tends to lead to decent vision...We needed a guy that could create some other than LBJ as it will allow someone else to penetrate, which will create open looks for shooters, and easier scoring opportunities for LBJ...

Just watching the olympics, LBJ is turning into a special player...he is the one guy that I think could carry a team without a legit #2 all star type...

I still think 4 legit starters and a solid bench...

Mo Williams and Z give him 2 legit starters...Wallace is a legit starter, but not really an offensive weapon...But Hickson is a player coming off the bench that should be able to make the PF legit for us, with he and Wallace...Then Wally/West/Boobie provide great backcourt depth...If Sasha could turn his game up a notch and take over the 2G we really have something here...You have Wild Thing as a backup C and he provide defense and the occaisonal 8 pt games...

That is a solid 10 man rotation that has guys that can score, play defense, rebound, shoot, create mismatches all over the floor, and not really have mismatches....And most of all Has LBJ as the centerpiece...


The reason the Celctics won it all was because they could create mismatches...3 guys that can really score...Well we have LBJ, Mo Williams, and Z that can go for 15+ every night and LBJ to really take over...And we can now guard anyone besides at the PG/SG position, but Williams, West, Wally, and Boobie can hopefully hold their own...

 

[Bernini]

Thanks for the first hand info...I agree how Williams will be used, and 6.3 assts tends to lead to decent vision...We needed a guy that could create some other than LBJ as it will allow someone else to penetrate, which will create open looks for shooters, and easier scoring opportunities for LBJ...

Just watching the olympics, LBJ is turning into a special player...he is the one guy that I think could carry a team without a legit #2 all star type...

I still think 4 legit starters and a solid bench...

Mo Williams and Z give him 2 legit starters...Wallace is a legit starter, but not really an offensive weapon...But Hickson is a player coming off the bench that should be able to make the PF legit for us, with he and Wallace...Then Wally/West/Boobie provide great backcourt depth...If Sasha could turn his game up a notch and take over the 2G we really have something here...You have Wild Thing as a backup C and he provide defense and the occaisonal 8 pt games...

That is a solid 10 man rotation that has guys that can score, play defense, rebound, shoot, create mismatches all over the floor, and not really have mismatches....And most of all Has LBJ as the centerpiece...


The reason the Celctics won it all was because they could create mismatches...3 guys that can really score...Well we have LBJ, Mo Williams, and Z that can go for 15+ every night and LBJ to really take over...And we can now guard anyone besides at the PG/SG position, but Williams, West, Wally, and Boobie can hopefully hold their own...

Starbury twice averaged 9+ assists per game and Fatoine 5 1/2 from the big forward position. I'd classify Mo as more of the ball dominator (not that he's incapable of deferring unlike the aforementioned) assist man than a guy with good vision. He's a good passer on pick and roll/pop, but that's not really a matter of vision. The roller/popper basically ends up in the same position every time. He's not a guy who is usually going to slash and find either the open player either under the hoop or behind the 3-point line. He doesn't make the kick out pass which leads to the pass, which leads to the score, so his assist total is even less representative of his passing ability. A high majority of the time he swoops to the hoop, it's to score, and if he runs into resistance he's retreating.

Defensively is his biggest issue I didn't mention, although you acknowledged you thought he was sub-par. He gets broken down off the dribble almost at will and forces the defense to scramble. Once again I think his inadequacy will somewhat be limited by the Cavs though because Lebron can guard the quicker opponent hypothetically. In Milwaukee we had Redd of course, and he had enough trouble with the quickness of shooting guards as is. If you want to enjoy the fruits of his creation of mismatches offensively you'll have to overcome him defensively. I've never been a big believer in having your backups compliment your starters. It's more important to have your starters compliment your starters. Everybody on the court needs to hold their own in their match up, especially the point guard, otherwise you're scrambling to adjust and leaving players open as a result.

 

[Brutus1]

I'm not really sure....Danny Ainge found a way with a load of crap though. I'd think an expiring contract or two, paired with a first rounder could entice some team to take a look. I'd think a combination of Damon Jones and Wally at the deadline with a first round pick would look really nice to a team who has no shot at the playoffs and needs to be restructured. That won't happen now. Maybe they've got something cooking with Wally and Sasha/Wild Thing, who knows? Picking up an above average PG at 8-9 mil a year, certainly makes acquiring a legit #2 more difficult come free agency next year.

The bottom line is LeBron needs a #2. So, getting Mo Williams is a nice pick-up, especially if West bolts for Europe, but it's just another acquisition that looks nice on the surface, but doesn't get us that much closer to a title or what LeBron wants.

I won't ever complain about a guy that can shoot 86% from the stripe. This teams ft shooting is horrible, so he'll be a great help there. I'm expecting his defense to improve. He's a definite upgrade from the end of the season. This team, as many holes as it had, still took the Champs to 7 games.

LBJ just keeps getting better and better every year. With Smith gone, Varejeo will get alot of extra time. Between Wallace and him, someone else will need to pick up the offense. I see no reason why Mo W can't do that. I expect West will be back and spell MW.

Add a healthy Gibby, Mo W and JJ Hickson to the squad that ended last season and I'll gladly take my chances against the C's this season.

 

[Bucks21]

I like this trade, something will be done at the trade deadline this year. Cavs evidently like Hickson. Plus, don't forget Sasha was hurt a bunch last year and never got a chance to get it going. He could be a big plus this year. this is easily the best cast Lebron has had since entering the league. Still need a legit number two one way or another but this is a good trade.

 

[NFBuck]

I like this trade, something will be done at the trade deadline this year. Cavs evidently like Hickson. Plus, don't forget Sasha was hurt a bunch last year and never got a chance to get it going. He could be a big plus this year. this is easily the best cast Lebron has had since entering the league. Still need a legit number two one way or another but this is a good trade.

Pavs was the forgotten man lst year. Between the contract issues and injuries, he was just awful most of the time. If he can get back to the form he showed late in the 06-07 season, he'll be almost like another addition. He came up huge at times in the stretch that year.

 

[Piney]

The bottom line is LeBron needs a #2. So, getting Mo Williams is a nice pick-up, especially if West bolts for Europe, but it's just another acquisition that looks nice on the surface, but doesn't get us that much closer to a title or what LeBron wants.

You are right that Mo Williams isn't the #2 we need. But there aren't any #2s available at the moment. The part of this trade I love is we still have our monster expiring contract (Wally). A #2 should come available before the all-star break and we still have our big chip to move.

Overall I love this deal. We got a legit NBA starter for a spare part and a backup bigman. These are the type of deals that championship calibur teams can make.

 

[Bucks21]

Wally has 13 mil expiring contract and Snow has 7 mil expiring contract. And don't tell me that expiring contracts can't get you a good player. Just look the trade for Gasol last year.