BuckeyePlanet Discussion - All views welcome

[Clarity]

Grad.....I hear you, but do we really want the PC police to invade BP?

Note: I completely agree there is always that line you do not cross.

Being sterile or PC is not now, nor will it ever be the goal.

This isn't some big, huge, monumental deal, it's no crisis -- it's just a call to action and attention. We're not reinventing ourselves, just looking for ways to improve.

 

[osugrad21]

im reading these comments, and have a question for the mods.

is that part of the yearly discussion that seems to me occurs after the recruting season (aka this places down time) or is it in response to an "incident" or a group of incidents or building atmosphere?

There is always a discussion going on ways to improve the site. However, certain incidents do shape the direction of the discussion. Hopefully, with the ongoing discussions, we can head off bigger issues down the road.

I truly hope nobody is feeling singled out here...however, I did PM a few posters last month with a general concern for the recent climate of the board. However, your observation of this being an annual event are right on....sometimes we all just need a reminder though.

 

[VprHis]

I'll attempt to throw in my 1/2 cent (only an idiot would pay full price for my thoughts :))

Regarding our "elitist" attitude--I feel that this truly is an elite Buckeyes site (why else would we be having this discussion). Our posters are held to a higher standard than those on other sites. I feel that this is as it should be, as threads on some other sites, particularly the 'network' sites that are frequented by just about anyone who can find the internet are, frankly, an embarrassment to me, as an OSU alum. It is difficult, I know, to find the balance to maintain 'elite' without becoming 'elitist.' To some extent, I feel it does come back to the issue of class, as discussed above, but I also feel that we need to find a way to maintain the excellent level of discourse exhibited on this site.

I wholeheartedly agree that we should be open to new posters and ideas, and maybe be more forgiving of the newbs who are simply struggling to find their place. I know at times that I've piled on, and that I've sent dings I've later regretted (only a little bit, though ).... but the question at hand is how to best effect the changes we desire (and I feel that only a minor shift in attitude is necessary)

I see two leverage points in this situation: New Members, and us Old Codgers. Part of the problem is that we crusty old sods are easily irritated, and when some young pup doesn't adhere to our style, we blast away... how to fix it? I'm not sure I know.

One possibility is to add a notice to new posters that we try to adhere to a certain standard, and to lay out some pointers of common mistakes that the new folks often make. I know often when a new poster signs up, it's because they want to fire back on some topic that's already on the board and moving, so they often rush in without regard for such peripherals--and the snowball starts rolling down the mountain.

We could also send a mass PM to members asking for a bit more restraint in our interaction with misguided noobs. I hate to put more on the mods, but when they see a newb getting blasted, they could take on more the role of mediator. Then again... that's something any poster can (and I know some already do) handle.



I feel that merely by having this discussion--and making sure everyone is aware of it (I often don't notice threads not on the football board, after all)--we can do quite a bit to get the board running more along the line we all feel it should be.

 

[buckiprof]

While some may perceive BP as "closed" or "elitist", a better word may be intolerant. At times, we do come off as intolerant, especially to newbies or whoever is the board's current "whipping boy". Tibs was the whipping boy that at times, the abuse he received and piling on, especially the piling on, was beyond belief.

As for newbies, I assume that they are not like me in the sense that said newbie does not take some time to figure out the site. I assume that the newbie is simply jumping in before surveying the waters. (BKB helped me in this area with his arrival to BP). As such, if a newbie starts off on the wrong foot rather than bashing him and leading to the mob "ding him to hell" mentality, a simple suggestive post followed by a PM may exhibit more tolerance. I hope to treat newbies the way I would want to be treated if I were a newbie simply jumping in before surveying the landscape.

 

[Clarity]

I don't know that we ever stop putting new members through something of a trial by fire. Indeed, we've started to get some population in that doesn't yet feel like they're a good fit for what BP has always been about. We want to encourage people to get involved and post, we don't want to chase others away before even trying -- but we do want to be clear about what does, and does not, work here.

There may well be users on BP right now, who just don't and won't "get it", and should probably be weeded out if they can't find a place here. Both for their own good, and the good of everyone else.

Even the stuff about sexism, homophobism, racism, etc., we're talking about getting it in check. Finding humor in just about anything is entirely healthy, I've always believed that. Using 'outrageous' terms and language can trivialize it, and give it less negative power. But when it gets out of hand, it can quickly turn ugly, and give a bad face to the greater community.

Anyone who has been around here more than a year, or was on BNuts with the lot of us years ago, knows that I don't tend to tiptoe around things. I don't really believe in pulling punches, and I'm not a fan of homogenization, pussification, or sterilzation.

BP will never be about those things. We'll never try to be everything for everyone -- there will be people that just don't fit here. That's entirely cool, no issues whatsoever.

Our goal here is to protect what we have. There will come a point in the not-so-distant future, where BP will have to defend itself against a focused effort to shut it down, or severely 'gimp' it. This effort is likely to come from where we would least expect it to, the university itself. Staying on top of our own foibles, leaves fewer avenues of approach for those who might like to see us crippled, or gone entirely. It's really that simple.

Above and beyond that reality, as I said in the announcement, the moment we stop trying to examine and evaluate ourselves, is the moment we stagnate and start to decay.

 

[jwinslow]

Deety would be a superb choice for a mod.

I do not have time for a full response, but here is one tidbit I'd like to throw out:

I think the standards at BP must be upheld (no repeat threads, repetitive convos, scatterbrained arguments - guilty as charged )... but we can teach new members before they are scolded. I am guilty of coming down on TG05 too often, and should send many of my suggestions to him via PM.

When outsiders joined from OkState, Texas and ND, they were treated fairly warmly. They seemed to be given more grace (than osu newbies) while learning their way around BP. Those that flamed or posted emotional arguments with little evidence were sometimes blasted, but the rest were treated fairly well.

I think this came naturally b/c BPers recognized the need for respect for our visitors, especially as we saw how such would lead to retaining excellent outsiders (methomps, ndchief, the okstate guys, high lonesome and his posse, etc).

IMO the difference was just the mentality of how I approached the visitors. Personally, I was naturally more patient and willing to explain the ropes to a new ND or Texas poster than I can be with some new bpers.

 

[CausticMick]

Simply put, boot camp isn't easy. You get your tail kicked until you're up to standard. Same thing here. I got blasted when I came in (oh, the Colonel days) and it "got me in shape." I realized what flies and what sinks. Someone stated earlier that this is a fraternity. The doors aren't closed here, but they're not open to anyone who just pays their $77. I am also financially vested. Albeit not a significant amount due to personal obligations, but when we throw money at something we care about it becomes a sport as opposed to a pastime. I do think people care here. Hell, LoKy (as well as others) pm'd me to give me a short lesson on etiquette. Why do they care if I stay or go? Everyone gave me a second chance, and I'm sure they'll give TG05 a 341st chance. No one kicked him out, even though the posts get annoying sometimes. And guess what, when TG05 recently sent me that PM, what did I see? Proper grammar. Why? Social molding. We have a good thing going, and outside of the language I think we're headed in the right direction. We have great people around here like Clarity and 3yards that invest enormous amount of time. We have many others that volunteer hard earned money because they love the site. This site is free, and I think it's better than the pay sites. I actually want to meet people involved with BP. Can't say I'd care to meet anyone associated with some other boards. At any rate, I appreciate this community and people who involve themselves. I seem to think there are some great personalities affiliated and it keeps me coming back- if only for the arcade.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="6" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="alt2"></td> <td nowrap="nowrap"> jwinslow

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is far too clumsy to take seriously
Moderator
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</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- / user info --><!-- message, attachments, sig --><!-- message --> Deety would be a superb choice for a mod.

shes already our vMOM

 

[NightmaresDad]

I have not ever perceived this to be a closed site. My own experience as a "newbie" was fine. It's true that some new posters' info is met with some skepticism at first, but new members understand quickly that opinions or "info" not backed up by proper reasoning or facts/sources are not tolerated - and that is how it should be. That is one of the main things that keep BP from becoming a place like BN or even OZone. If people come on here mainly because they are true Buckeye fans, and not with another agenda, they should have no problem fitting in.

Sometimes posters get a little carried away with a message board. Like Bucki919 does at BN or like what Donny did here - starting 3 or more new threads every day - they try to take over the whole board. The group responds and sometimes guys just don't get the hint so it gets out of hand. TG05 obviously gets hammered, but usually warranted. But when he posted some great posts about the WHAC and some inside info about certain HS players, he was thanked and treated with the respect those posts deserved. Some guys, like Tibor/Guy are only on here for the attention, and if getting ripped constantly is their way of getting it, they welcome it. Personally, I can't stomach the "pot stirrers" if that's all they have to bring to BP. when someone has 4000 posts and 3999 of them are negative, how does that add to your site?
the Pareto principle is going to apply to BP as it does to most everything else - 20% of your posters are going to make 80% of the contribution. you can try to change this and get the other 80% more vocal, but it will probably always come back to this.

The homo jokes have, without exception, been of the good-natured lockerroom variety, as far as what I've seen. I have seen no evidence of true homophobia here. I have also not seen overt racism, with the exception of some comments directed at Tibor - but as I've stated, that is just what Tibor is looking for anyway.

The language could be cleaned up - shouldn't need a filter. I don't get offended, but I could see where it could definitely keep people from joining the site.

I think BP is a great Community. I hope you aren't going to try to be all things to all people - just trying to be more accomodating maybe? Anyway, BP to me means a place where avid Buckeye fans can go to find out a whole bunch of info on all things tOSU, and have reasonable and fact-based discussions on just about anything under the sun. I hope BP does not lower its standards regarding how things are discussed, because that's what makes it so much better than other sites.

 

[AKAK]

Mr Incredible shows that tolerance and persistence pays off..

At any rate. The newb thing, is only part of the issue. New people will get along or they won't, whether there is rookie hazing or not... Heck, Those who have been around longer have a tougher time of it anyway, or should.

The key word in this "Awareness" conversation is "Tolerance." for newbies, or ideas or whatever.

 

[Clarity]

Here's a question for everyone. Which non-moderator/admin users are most representative of what BP is and should be about? Toss out your top 3-5 or so.

 

[OilerBuck]

Don't view this as a preaching session, because as a community, we are all equally responsible for the whole.

With the site growing so much, it is time for us to rethink a lot of the fundamental beliefs that it was founded on. Much like growing up, we decided to seperate from parent sites "Bucknuts", "O-Zone", etc.

I liken this to my own experience in moving out of my parents house. They had a lot of ideals and beliefs that I felt were too strong and that my freedom was being inhibited. Shortly after I left, the slate was clean. I got to reinvent myself and I had absolute freedom without the experiences or any idea of my responsibilities. As time progressed, I found that many (not all) of my parents standards held true, and I adopted some of them for myself.

This site has gotten older and bigger. Many of our policies and generally accepted practices need to mature to meet the responsibilities of our new environment. There will be resistance, but I think the following things need to change:

1. Policing needs to be restricted to moderators. Our core group of posters has grown so much, that we can no longer allow popular opinion to rule and to get caught up in groupthink. Moderators should be counted on to keep order and bring rational thought into decaying discussion. That brings me to my second point...

2. Moderators need to be held to higher standards than non-mods. Moderators should have opinions, but HAVE to be held to standards of etiquitte that are different from any random poster. Name calling, bashing, sarcastic barbs and forcing of opinions cannot be tolerated from people with "perceived" power. Disciplinary action should be handled consistently and professionally (via PM, not in a public argument). If we cannot abide by these standards, we should be stripped of moderator status. Myself included.

3. Reputation should be re-addressed. Maybe rep should be disabled for Mods only, or maybe altogether. As someone with a decent rep, I think I can talk about this without it seeming bitter, but it is so objective that it long ago lost any relevance in determining who really is a quality poster and who mearly has a dissenting opinion. There are posters who bring a lot more to the table than myself, yet they have lower reps. There are people that get repped simply for being good butt kissers to the right people. Yet it seems that this system (which I interpret as mere fun) is used as a weapon and is given WAY too much relevance by perception.

4. PATIENCE AND RESPECT! Everyone on this board deserves it. We cannot reasonably expect everyone to read the rules upon entry. Moderators will reiiterate the rules (in a professional manner) when one is broken...and disciplinary action would follow later. We have to quit jumping on a new poster when they post in the wrong forum or missed the search function. It does nothing but belittle people and drive them away.

Again...I can find an instance where I have been a part of each and every problem described above, so I don't want to hear any finger-pointing. I just want to be a part of getting this ship back on course.

 

[OilerBuck]

Here's a question for everyone. Which non-moderator/admin users are most representative of what BP is and should be about? Toss out your top 3-5 or so.

Deety and NJ-Buckeye are the two that immediately came to mind. I'm SURE there are others, though.

EDIT: add methomps & buckeyegrad

 

[BB73]

Here's a question for everyone. Which non-moderator/admin users are most representative of what BP is and should be about? Toss out your top 3-5 or so.

Steve19, WoodyWorshiper (dubs), Dryden, cincibuck, LightningRod (in addition to Oiler's list)

I hate to do that, though, because of those that I didn't mention.

 

[sandgk]

There is really more than one issue at play here.
First one -- Tone & Tenor - I.e., phobic or rascist aspects.
Why not try an experiment - Here is one that would interesting, have the homo or other pejorative content restricted to areas of the site like the Romper Room where you specifically expect a raunchier atmosphere. Do that for however long you think is right. For instance, a month. Launch another thread like this near the end of the self-policing to poll user feedback, like it, no likey, don't stop, modify or other.

Second One -- Trial By Fire
Make life easier on the newbies. Mods only allowed to address issues with newbies directly by PM / e-mail, what I also mean by this is that other folks cannot give them rubies and gang-tackle for a trial period.

Third One -- Post Addicted Newbies - in lieu of (2) for post-addicted newbies, set a limit in the manner that Search Function doesn't allow repeated use.