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- Thread starter 3yardsandacloud
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3yardsandacloud
Administrator Emeritus
Well, I don't really want to make anything personal so I'll offer this suggestion. Run a search on any of the slang for homosexuals and see if the volume of returned posts isn't distrubing to you. Not that any individual posts (although some very much are) would be that outragous in their own right, but that the abundance indicates an issue we should address.
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jimotis4heisman
Banned
i did a quick search:3yardsandacloud said:
gay 25 threads, most of them in the political in some manner.
homo 9 threads tittled homo over 500 posts with homo and 321 dedicated to thumps thread about his sexuality
fag 373 posts in all sorts of threads almost all negative
at one point the use of what language words and way recruits were treated was changed in the recruiting threads. i agreed with that. i made the mistake once afterwords put received a nice pm from grad with a friendly reminder and a few others from random posters.
honestly the terms gay/fag/homo do not relate to football, basketball or general sports discussion outside of the odd topic (sheryl swoopes). do away with it. the open discussion thats another bag of warms and i think that should be made as more of a "group" conclusion.
as far as race on the sports boards we live in an interesting time. it is relevant but within a constraint. i think it is proper to discuss the naacp and mcnabb within a certain thread. we dont live in the 60s in the deep south, but you have to be foolish to think that race doesnt have some relevant meaning in culture and sports today. this being said racial slurs should not be tolerated, were do you draw the line once again hard to say because look at the richard pryor thread and people quoting him. but within the sports talk of this place zero tolerance.
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3yardsandacloud
Administrator Emeritus
As you point out JO, it's hard to place hard and fast rules on any behavior. There often IS a time and place for everything. Hard and fast rules simply aren't flexible enough to cover all variables. I think that is the main reason for making this discussion a 'community' event. While in the short term we (the staff) are being asked to tighten up on these issues, there is no overarching theme to make a long term policy change. No desire to say "These words 'x', 'x', and 'x' are expressly forbiden at BuckeyePlanet". Hopefully just being made aware of these issues is enough to open our eyes and give everyone a new perspective. I guess Clarity could ask the mods/admins to actively control this at all times, but I'm hoping the community in general will take the lead. I see no reason why it shouldn't. If you see an off the cuff remark here or there ... well it happens at times. We all have bad days. When you see this stuff as part of a daily routine, then we've let it slip way too far. I guess having the freedom to say almost anything you like doesn't mean that you should.
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Folanator
Brawndo's got electrolytes...
Guys I will tell you one of the big attractions for me is the non-PC nature of this site. If this gets too vanilla it will end up much closer to BN than I would like. Where do you draw the line?
Can I not call Charlie Weiss a fat ass for fear of offending the over weight group?
Can I not give some mullet jokes for fear of offending the hockey players?
Can I not use swear words for fear of the church goers?
This is a slippery slope that smacks of PC.
Having said that most racial remarks should never be tolerated, period.
I will also say that the gay thing is different for a whole bunch of reasons. We mostly are guys. I do not see the big deal at all.
There are enough mods and people like myself that will self police. Example, a year or so ago a guy said that it was OK if someone was beaten to death for being gay. I pitched a bitch and the issue was solved after a few PM's. The system works as is as long as we can be somewhat tolerant in our vision and ideas.
Can I not call Charlie Weiss a fat ass for fear of offending the over weight group?
Can I not give some mullet jokes for fear of offending the hockey players?
Can I not use swear words for fear of the church goers?
This is a slippery slope that smacks of PC.
Having said that most racial remarks should never be tolerated, period.
I will also say that the gay thing is different for a whole bunch of reasons. We mostly are guys. I do not see the big deal at all.
There are enough mods and people like myself that will self police. Example, a year or so ago a guy said that it was OK if someone was beaten to death for being gay. I pitched a bitch and the issue was solved after a few PM's. The system works as is as long as we can be somewhat tolerant in our vision and ideas.
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Time for me to chime in, as I am one of the bigger "violators" of many members morals. I'm an older guy who grew up in a multi-racial portion of Girard (suburb of Youngstown for those who don't know), right smack dab in the middle of the civil rights movement. My best friend was black. It was weird having to answer his question, "Why do white people get sun tans?", which was an honest question in that he truly didn't understand why so many Caucasians tried to make themselves darker while so many others hated Negroes because they were dark-skinned (visually so much different). It was a time where racial terms hurt far, far worse than they do today, and yet were used more openly. So, you'll have to excuse me if I don't feel that standard racial fare is a capital crime.
While on the outside, the avoidance, or outright elimination, of the usage of any racial terms appears to be progressive, words or terms in themselves are no where near the damaging element as actions themselves are. Political correctiveness has most people truly believing that the mere utterance of any racial term automatically qualifies the utterer as an evil bigot. Try telling the kids on the Glenville football team that they can no longer use the "N-word" (I hate that term) when firing themselves up before a game. Try telling a country music fan that the term Honky-Tonk is now racist. The worst is the holier-than-thou, elitist attitude that most PCers (and many on this board) have in that any belief or action that in any way disagrees with theirs makes the those who do so insensitive, heathen, racial, homophobes (there's another term I despise). What the fuck gives them the right to preach and force their beliefs as if they were the divine word, and outright demonetize those who dare disagree even though that disagreement is shared by the majority?
As for the hazing of new members, I think folks need to step back and take a look at the big picture before blowing things way out of proportion. First, very few "newbs" are actually raked over the coals. Name more than a dozen out of the nearly 4,000 new members over that the last year or so that have been drilled hard immediately after joining. Half of those were flammers and trollers from other fan bases who have been banned. The other half were members whose initial posts were so ridiculous that they merited a degree of ridicule (and which would've been ridiculed even if they were the poster's 10,000th post rather than their 1st or 10th). Or, they were too lazy to take a quick look around to see what was posted before the came in with their keyboard a-blazin', making repeat-threads of threads that were already on the main page, or asking questions that have been answered numerous times before and could've easily been found with just a few seconds of searching.
Also, as with any community, the new member isn't instantaneously elevated to a stature equal to established members...they should learn the ropes a bit and learn the feel of the site. Now, there have been several newbies that have had excellent first posts (I even gave a Great Post Award to a newbie's very first post), so some members are able to contribute right off the bat, while a small minority come here just to get noticed and starting as many threads and making as many posts as they can. When a newbie strays from the flock, there is no problem with someone else--mod, admin, or plain member--from acting as the shepard and brining them back into the fold. If the shepard has to resort to using the cane, then so be it.
Clarity started this site mainly because of the dictatorship and the separation of standards over on Bustnuts. "Premium" members could do no wrong while others, especially those who were vocal and established, had to walk on egg shells. Even the mildest of language was deemed heinous (you couldn't even disguise "bad" words, such as using d@mn, $h!t, etc.). C-Dog made this site so we could talk about football and other subject like most men would talk among other men. Obviously, there are some limits (such as hard-core nudity not being allowed, and what nudity that was OK was limited to the RR, which is age-limited), but by-and-large it's a site were you can open up and tell it like it is. Many swear while many don't. Some use non-PC terms while others don't. If things got out of hand, mods/admins could (and did) step in to passively (ask) or actively (edit) correct things...fortunately, that doesn't have to happen often.
This isn't grade school, people...it's a fuckin' fan forum, where the vast majority of folks here are legal adults, and those few who aren't hear the same, or worse, at school. The language filter will eventually be back up and running, which should solve a lot of the problems. Until then, folks need to realize that there made be something said that may tweak you a bit or that you strongly disagree with. Just deal with it.
While on the outside, the avoidance, or outright elimination, of the usage of any racial terms appears to be progressive, words or terms in themselves are no where near the damaging element as actions themselves are. Political correctiveness has most people truly believing that the mere utterance of any racial term automatically qualifies the utterer as an evil bigot. Try telling the kids on the Glenville football team that they can no longer use the "N-word" (I hate that term) when firing themselves up before a game. Try telling a country music fan that the term Honky-Tonk is now racist. The worst is the holier-than-thou, elitist attitude that most PCers (and many on this board) have in that any belief or action that in any way disagrees with theirs makes the those who do so insensitive, heathen, racial, homophobes (there's another term I despise). What the fuck gives them the right to preach and force their beliefs as if they were the divine word, and outright demonetize those who dare disagree even though that disagreement is shared by the majority?
As for the hazing of new members, I think folks need to step back and take a look at the big picture before blowing things way out of proportion. First, very few "newbs" are actually raked over the coals. Name more than a dozen out of the nearly 4,000 new members over that the last year or so that have been drilled hard immediately after joining. Half of those were flammers and trollers from other fan bases who have been banned. The other half were members whose initial posts were so ridiculous that they merited a degree of ridicule (and which would've been ridiculed even if they were the poster's 10,000th post rather than their 1st or 10th). Or, they were too lazy to take a quick look around to see what was posted before the came in with their keyboard a-blazin', making repeat-threads of threads that were already on the main page, or asking questions that have been answered numerous times before and could've easily been found with just a few seconds of searching.
Also, as with any community, the new member isn't instantaneously elevated to a stature equal to established members...they should learn the ropes a bit and learn the feel of the site. Now, there have been several newbies that have had excellent first posts (I even gave a Great Post Award to a newbie's very first post), so some members are able to contribute right off the bat, while a small minority come here just to get noticed and starting as many threads and making as many posts as they can. When a newbie strays from the flock, there is no problem with someone else--mod, admin, or plain member--from acting as the shepard and brining them back into the fold. If the shepard has to resort to using the cane, then so be it.
Clarity started this site mainly because of the dictatorship and the separation of standards over on Bustnuts. "Premium" members could do no wrong while others, especially those who were vocal and established, had to walk on egg shells. Even the mildest of language was deemed heinous (you couldn't even disguise "bad" words, such as using d@mn, $h!t, etc.). C-Dog made this site so we could talk about football and other subject like most men would talk among other men. Obviously, there are some limits (such as hard-core nudity not being allowed, and what nudity that was OK was limited to the RR, which is age-limited), but by-and-large it's a site were you can open up and tell it like it is. Many swear while many don't. Some use non-PC terms while others don't. If things got out of hand, mods/admins could (and did) step in to passively (ask) or actively (edit) correct things...fortunately, that doesn't have to happen often.
This isn't grade school, people...it's a fuckin' fan forum, where the vast majority of folks here are legal adults, and those few who aren't hear the same, or worse, at school. The language filter will eventually be back up and running, which should solve a lot of the problems. Until then, folks need to realize that there made be something said that may tweak you a bit or that you strongly disagree with. Just deal with it.
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sandgk
Watson, Crick & A Twist
Only if he needs the company?So am I still able to call iambrutus for going to a salon to get his hair done or not?
True, BN can be hyper-restrictive on both ends of the spectrum. Rigid adherence to the current tOSU group-speak in trying times and rigidly opposed to any, erm, adult discussion of matters football or otherwise. Wouldn't want that at all.Folonator said:
I welcome the addition of all our new moderators, they will make it easier to share the load of keeping things on an even keel. Frankly, that is half the or better of the problem. Whether Clarity has a goal for membership increase or no is something of a moot point. Those folks are here for the good things this site offers. With that growth comes too great a volume of posted material for the volunteers that help behind the scenes to look at keenly. Added help in that area can only - help.
The folks chosen seem like very good moderator candidates and I'm sure they will do their work without making the site different from what long-time members envisaged or wanted.
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I think some are reading WAY too much into this discussion.
(1) We're not going to be PC. We're never going to be PC. We're never going to cater to the easily offended, and oft outraged. So if there are any asian hare krishna (hairy fishnut, for any Opus fans) midget hermaphrodites here who can't take a damn joke, then take off.
Seriously though, how could anyone think we're going PC? We're not. It's that simple. No vanilla, no homogenization, we're never going to be 100% work or kid safe. Want to talk about ass to mouth here? Go ahead. Just find the proper place to do it. It's really that simple.
(2) As someone else noted and pointed out, we do something like this every year. It's a time to take a look at ourselves, how we're getting along, what we're doing well, what we're not. If you don't stop every now again and check your surroundings, you can miss some important details.
(3) The new mods aren't coming on to introduce some new police state era or culture here. We're not creating a kiddie pool to encourage idiots on the site. I'm not appointing omsbudsmen to turn the place into a whinefest. We're doing it to address areas where we could be doing things better. Ultimately, none of these change the day to day travels and actions of any average user. It won't be all that long before we have 10k members, maybe 3k active. We're being proactive, rather than reactive. That's all. I have no goals when it comes to the 'size' of BP. Larger works against us, it makes things harder and more expensive. But so what? I'm not going to close it off to new people. Some of our best posters may not even be members yet. As BP is supposed to be an open community where Buckeye fans can come and interact online, we'll be a home to as many there are out there that want one, and fit in. I draw no sort of personal pride from the growth of BP. But I am happy so many seem to enjoy it.
(4) Our primary goal is to *maintain* the atmosphere we have here. Not change it. Asking people to tone some of the more eye-catching buzzwords along racial fronts really isn't going to change anything. Doesn't mean you can't tell some joke that starts with "two peckerwoods and an alligator walk into a bar carrying a dead hooker...", just means that we don't give the false impression that there's some sort of underlying current of racial intolerance here. To try and put a face on it (a hypothetical/arbitrary face), of 350k posts, maybe 10 have demonstrated that? And those 10 only gave a false impression to people who took the comments out of context? 350,000:10. Still, why 10? But that puts it in perspective. We're talking about cleaning up 1 in 35k posts. I don't think that's going to impact the site, or impact any users here. That's all arbitrary though. Once again, sometimes the ENTIRE purpose for bringing people up is far less about effecting change, than it is about provoking a little thought and awareness.
(5) There does not need to be a behavioral shift with the userbase. Sometimes the goal is just to get people to stop and think about their behavior, and that of others. Not so they change anything, just because it's good to check the oil every once and a while. If anyone on BP comes away from this feeling like they should be acting or posting differently, then great, that's on them. If they don't, great, because I have no outstanding issues. I've mentioned a few things to a few people, but also explained that I need them to be themselves, and to feel free to express themselves any way they need to here on BP. If others have a problem with that, they'll say so, that's the whole damn point of a forum.
(6) We're not going PC.
(7) methomps and golferdow01 are both new mods. A few more coming still.
(1) We're not going to be PC. We're never going to be PC. We're never going to cater to the easily offended, and oft outraged. So if there are any asian hare krishna (hairy fishnut, for any Opus fans) midget hermaphrodites here who can't take a damn joke, then take off.
Seriously though, how could anyone think we're going PC? We're not. It's that simple. No vanilla, no homogenization, we're never going to be 100% work or kid safe. Want to talk about ass to mouth here? Go ahead. Just find the proper place to do it. It's really that simple.
(2) As someone else noted and pointed out, we do something like this every year. It's a time to take a look at ourselves, how we're getting along, what we're doing well, what we're not. If you don't stop every now again and check your surroundings, you can miss some important details.
(3) The new mods aren't coming on to introduce some new police state era or culture here. We're not creating a kiddie pool to encourage idiots on the site. I'm not appointing omsbudsmen to turn the place into a whinefest. We're doing it to address areas where we could be doing things better. Ultimately, none of these change the day to day travels and actions of any average user. It won't be all that long before we have 10k members, maybe 3k active. We're being proactive, rather than reactive. That's all. I have no goals when it comes to the 'size' of BP. Larger works against us, it makes things harder and more expensive. But so what? I'm not going to close it off to new people. Some of our best posters may not even be members yet. As BP is supposed to be an open community where Buckeye fans can come and interact online, we'll be a home to as many there are out there that want one, and fit in. I draw no sort of personal pride from the growth of BP. But I am happy so many seem to enjoy it.
(4) Our primary goal is to *maintain* the atmosphere we have here. Not change it. Asking people to tone some of the more eye-catching buzzwords along racial fronts really isn't going to change anything. Doesn't mean you can't tell some joke that starts with "two peckerwoods and an alligator walk into a bar carrying a dead hooker...", just means that we don't give the false impression that there's some sort of underlying current of racial intolerance here. To try and put a face on it (a hypothetical/arbitrary face), of 350k posts, maybe 10 have demonstrated that? And those 10 only gave a false impression to people who took the comments out of context? 350,000:10. Still, why 10? But that puts it in perspective. We're talking about cleaning up 1 in 35k posts. I don't think that's going to impact the site, or impact any users here. That's all arbitrary though. Once again, sometimes the ENTIRE purpose for bringing people up is far less about effecting change, than it is about provoking a little thought and awareness.
(5) There does not need to be a behavioral shift with the userbase. Sometimes the goal is just to get people to stop and think about their behavior, and that of others. Not so they change anything, just because it's good to check the oil every once and a while. If anyone on BP comes away from this feeling like they should be acting or posting differently, then great, that's on them. If they don't, great, because I have no outstanding issues. I've mentioned a few things to a few people, but also explained that I need them to be themselves, and to feel free to express themselves any way they need to here on BP. If others have a problem with that, they'll say so, that's the whole damn point of a forum.
(6) We're not going PC.
(7) methomps and golferdow01 are both new mods. A few more coming still.
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Now see, maybe I've downplayed it too much. There does need to be an adjustment, but for the most part, it's already been made. Getting a dialog going about all of it was more or less what was needed.
I'm done rambling about this now.
I'm done rambling about this now.
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Buckin' A
Veritas Aequitas
First we have to stop saying Merry Christmas, now we have to stop calling people homo's? When will it end?
On a serious note, the people who created BP have far more say in how this place should run than most of us. They have spent hours, days, weeks, etc... making this happen. Just so the rules are made clear, I'm sure anyone with respect to this site will follow them.
On a serious note, the people who created BP have far more say in how this place should run than most of us. They have spent hours, days, weeks, etc... making this happen. Just so the rules are made clear, I'm sure anyone with respect to this site will follow them.
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