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Big Ten Basketball Thread

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LitlBuck said:
Not really. He went to St. John's to help Lavin out:tongue2:
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I'd be willing to help out Lavin too...

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If Painter doesn't find some guys who can play beyond Johnson, Moore and Hummel, he's going to find himself on the hot seat - it's not going to be this year, but it might not be too long from now. Right now I don't think he has a single above average Big Ten player at any position beyond the guys he recruited in 2007 (Hummel, Moore, Johnson).
 
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BuckeyeMike80;1830063; said:
Can we point and laugh at how bad Michigan State can be for stretches as well?
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it's almost impossible to predict michigan state's late season play by their non-conference play. last season, they lost 3 of 4 non-conference games against good competition. result? final four. two seasons ago, they lost by 18 to maryland and 35 to north carolina. result? championship game. this year's team, on paper, should be good enough to be a title contender. as long the spartans are competitive in november and december, no msu fan should be too concerned.

you're correct, though. the spartans can look downright pathetic for stretches. they're starting to figure out syracuse's zone, however.
 
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OSU_Buckguy said:
it's almost impossible to predict michigan state's late season play by their non-conference play. last season, they lost 3 of 4 non-conference games against good competition. result? final four. two seasons ago, they lost by 18 to maryland and 35 to north carolina. result? championship game. this year's team, on paper, should be good enough to be a title contender. as long the spartans are competitive in november and december, no msu fan should be too concerned.

you're correct, though. the spartans can look downright pathetic for stretches. they're starting to figure out syracuse's zone, however.
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a lot of that goes to msu set style offense. they run so much you cannot game plan for them. ive watched late season msu games with 65-70 possession games where they have run 50+ sets.... a conference team has some knowledge of the sets as they are the same 65 or so sets they run every year and a team who is actually competing for conference titles with msu will sprinkle in sets through the year to put guys on their toes, come tournament time with 48 or so hours, good freaking luck...
 
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brutus2002;1829736; said:
You mean the same Virginia that beat top 25 Minnesota at Minneapolis?
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Yep, and the same Virginia that has lost to unranked Stanford by 21, unranked Wichita State by 12 and top 25 Washington by 43. VT was a nice win, but I think we both know VT is an average team. I'd say Purdue is a borderline top 25 team right now, but winning at VT doesn't prove anything to me because other teams that aren't top 25 quality have beaten them.
 
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OSU_Buckguy;1830068; said:
it's almost impossible to predict michigan state's late season play by their non-conference play. last season, they lost 3 of 4 non-conference games against good competition. result? final four. two seasons ago, they lost by 18 to maryland and 35 to north carolina. result? championship game. this year's team, on paper, should be good enough to be a title contender. as long the spartans are competitive in november and december, no msu fan should be too concerned.

you're correct, though. the spartans can look downright pathetic for stretches. they're starting to figure out syracuse's zone, however.
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I dont think this Michigan State team is going to be anywhere near the hype. I just dont see any inside presence offensively or defensively. I absolutely adore Green but he's more of a point forward than back to the basket post player, and Roe and Sherman are really not at all offensive threats at this point. Green rebounds well but Roe and Sherman dont really, and they don't have a rim protector at all. Payne may be able to grow into this role, but right now he just looks so lost out there offensively and defensively. I have no idea what Nix could do if he lost 70 pounds, but I doubt it happens.

I'm also amazed at the relative lack of depth they seem. Besides bringing their best player (Lucious) off the bench, I haven't been remotely impressed with anything they've done. Thornton didn't play at all in the second half yesterday that I can remember, Appling looked terrible yesterday, and Payne hasn't shown me anything. I feel like the two stalwarts of their successful seasons are inside presence and great depth, and I don't see either of those things this year. Its early and they may develop, but right now they don't look anything like a Final Four team to me.
 
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Izzo is a great coach, but even he can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse & that's what he'd have to do to get this Spartan club to make it to Houston. Not every MSU team Izzo coaches makes the Final Four, "just" 6 in his 15 seasons as coach there.

Izzo's teams lost either 12 or 13 games in each of five seasons in a span of six from 2002 through 2007, the one that they didn't lose 12 or 13 was their only F4 in that timeframe - if people back then were saying they'd make the F4 anyway even though they were losing a lot of games, they would've been wrong over and over again. Raymar Morgan was better than people give him credit for - right now MSU is really struggling to replace both his talent & toughness - he wasn't always consistent, but he still managed to start for four years and be among a select group of 5 players in MSU history to score 1,500+ points and have 700+ rebounds.

Even so, MSU's F4 run last year was mostly because they got dealt a good hand - they were one of only two teams since 1992 to be seeded #3 or below to make the Final Four without facing the #1 or #2 seed in their region - the only other team? Georgia Tech in 2004, who went out in the second round the year following an appearance in the NC game, and all they lost off their finalist team was Marvin Lewis (kind of similar to Chris Allen), Robert Brooks and Clarence Moore (Brooks and Moore combined to average less in pretty much all statistical categories than Raymar Morgan did last year), plus they added Anthony Morrow. I'd say MSU this year is similar to GT in '05.
 
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DZ83CK;1830632; said:
Izzo is a great coach, but even he can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse & that's what he'd have to do to get this Spartan club to make it to Houston. Not every MSU team Izzo coaches makes the Final Four, "just" 6 in his 15 seasons as coach there.

Izzo's teams lost either 12 or 13 games in each of five seasons in a span of six from 2002 through 2007, the one that they didn't lose 12 or 13 was their only F4 in that timeframe - if people back then were saying they'd make the F4 anyway even though they were losing a lot of games, they would've been wrong over and over again. Raymar Morgan was better than people give him credit for - right now MSU is really struggling to replace both his talent & toughness - he wasn't always consistent, but he still managed to start for four years and be among a select group of 5 players in MSU history to score 1,500+ points and have 700+ rebounds.

Even so, MSU's F4 run last year was mostly because they got dealt a good hand - they were one of only two teams since 1992 to be seeded #3 or below to make the Final Four without facing the #1 or #2 seed in their region - the only other team? Georgia Tech in 2004, who went out in the second round the year following an appearance in the NC game, and all they lost off their finalist team was Marvin Lewis (kind of similar to Chris Allen), Robert Brooks and Clarence Moore (Brooks and Moore combined to average less in pretty much all statistical categories than Raymar Morgan did last year), plus they added Anthony Morrow. I'd say MSU this year is similar to GT in '05.
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It's wayyyyyyyyyyy too damn early to be counting MSU out of anything. They have not played a B10 game yet...20+ games to get their shit together. Its not a coincidence they have made late season runs where they were not expected to do squat.
 
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