Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[ORD_Buckeye]

"The B1G operates on a different level than any league. It’s a partnership. The Academic Alliance is $11B/year." If you include USC and UCLA you're looking at $15,658,000,000 research dollars. You add Wash, Stan, Cal, Ore, and ND, you're at $19.5B.

The B1G is going for it all. NBC and CBS are talking about an NFL style Saturday, and FOX is all in with the B1G Network and primary games. The SEC may be rich now, but things will be different when the next network contract is negotiated. The SEC sees what's going on and is already signaling they want the expansions to stop. We'll see.

 

[kujirakira]

UVA: Charlottesville, is now a DC 'burb and also brings in the Richmond Market down to Williamsburgh, Portsmouth, Norfuck. Plus UVA grads are all over the country, much like Big Ten schools and unlike most ACC/SEC schools.

Definitely not. Way too far and no transport links, no interstate in an area where interstates go everywhere. Richmond will be a burb, if they ever execute the HSR plans (they won't, oil lobbyists own DC), before Charlottesville.
From DMV perspective, Charlottesville may as well be geographically in WV.
And that's part of the point of going down there for UVA and UNC. Maryland brings in the DMV but not an inch farther. VMI isn't the State Flagship, UVA is. It's a large school with a ton of alum that will pay even when they're 3-9. That's what makes a stable conference member; not flash-in-the-pans like Baylor or TCU that may occasionally be highly competitive, but have a very very low floor (if they suck, the coffers are empty) and easily saturate their ceiling (even if they're undefeated, there's only so many Baylor alum).

You didn't bring up Miami, but others have. They can't even fill the stadium when they're above average.
Corn has frequently been worse than Rutgers and Maryland since joining; yet still fill out their stadium, still draw eyeballs to games, still get their massive alum base to spend in various forms.
When looking for quality additions, consider what these schools potential are when they suck. Not when they're competitive. Because most schools will suck most years... only 10% can be in the top 10%.
Don't look at their potential to drop Wisconsin or MSU out of the top 10%, look at what their revenue and ratings situations are the other 90% of the time.
UCLA has been invisible for most of my lifetime. But we know their alum will keep them in good standing, regardless of their on-field performance.
UVA and UNC fit in that same field. And they also belong academically (UNC cheating notwithstanding they're an outstanding public Uni), as Ord noted. AAU membership is a cultural touchstone for the conference.

 

[TampaBuckeyes]

UVA: Charlottesville, is now a DC 'burb and also brings in the Richmond Market down to Williamsburgh, Portsmouth, Norfuck. Plus UVA grads are all over the country, much like Big Ten schools and unlike most ACC/SEC schools.

Charlottesville is a town of less than 50,000 people and has no greater metro area to bump that number. It’s 2 hours from DC in decent traffic. University of Maryland is INSIDE the DC beltway. We already have the DC market, no need to double up when neither school can play football. The turtles are great because they also get us the Baltimore market.

 

[TampaBuckeyes]

Definitely not. Way too far and no transport links, no interstate in an area where interstates go everywhere. Richmond will be a burb, if they ever execute the HSR plans (they won't, oil lobbyists own DC), before Charlottesville.
From DMV perspective, Charlottesville may as well be geographically in WV.
And that's part of the point of going down there for UVA and UNC. Maryland brings in the DMV but not an inch farther. VMI isn't the State Flagship, UVA is. It's a large school with a ton of alum that will pay even when they're 3-9. That's what makes a stable conference member; not flash-in-the-pans like Baylor or TCU that may occasionally be highly competitive, but have a very very low floor (if they suck, the coffers are empty) and easily saturate their ceiling (even if they're undefeated, there's only so many Baylor alum).

You didn't bring up Miami, but others have. They can't even fill the stadium when they're above average.
Corn has frequently been worse than Rutgers and Maryland since joining; yet still fill out their stadium, still draw eyeballs to games, still get their massive alum base to spend in various forms.
When looking for quality additions, consider what these schools potential are when they suck. Not when they're competitive. Because most schools will suck most years... only 10% can be in the top 10%.
Don't look at their potential to drop Wisconsin or MSU out of the top 10%, look at what their revenue and ratings situations are the other 90% of the time.
UCLA has been invisible for most of my lifetime. But we know their alum will keep them in good standing, regardless of their on-field performance.
UVA and UNC fit in that same field. And they also belong academically (UNC cheating notwithstanding they're an outstanding public Uni), as Ord noted. AAU membership is a cultural touchstone for the conference.

I love the large alumni base, but it seems uva fans don’t tune in to watch the games.

Metric from 2015-2019
14: FSU with 2.2M viewers
23: Miami with 1.5M viewers. One spot below nebraska (you are very right on their fans)
45: UNC bringing 750k viewers.
59: UVA with almost 600k viewers.

FSU got a bump for being relevant during that time. Miami sucked and still was top 25.
UVA or UNC will rarely be relevant enough to boost them.

I would say FSU is like bringing in Nebraska research and fan base, but with actual tv markets tied to it.

I do think UNC could be added, but uva is a huge reach.

 

[cincibuck]

Definitely not. Way too far and no transport links, no interstate in an area where interstates go everywhere. Richmond will be a burb, if they ever execute the HSR plans (they won't, oil lobbyists own DC), before Charlottesville.
From DMV perspective, Charlottesville may as well be geographically in WV.
And that's part of the point of going down there for UVA and UNC. Maryland brings in the DMV but not an inch farther. VMI isn't the State Flagship, UVA is. It's a large school with a ton of alum that will pay even when they're 3-9. That's what makes a stable conference member; not flash-in-the-pans like Baylor or TCU that may occasionally be highly competitive, but have a very very low floor (if they suck, the coffers are empty) and easily saturate their ceiling (even if they're undefeated, there's only so many Baylor alum).

You didn't bring up Miami, but others have. They can't even fill the stadium when they're above average.
Corn has frequently been worse than Rutgers and Maryland since joining; yet still fill out their stadium, still draw eyeballs to games, still get their massive alum base to spend in various forms.
When looking for quality additions, consider what these schools potential are when they suck. Not when they're competitive. Because most schools will suck most years... only 10% can be in the top 10%.
Don't look at their potential to drop Wisconsin or MSU out of the top 10%, look at what their revenue and ratings situations are the other 90% of the time.
UCLA has been invisible for most of my lifetime. But we know their alum will keep them in good standing, regardless of their on-field performance.
UVA and UNC fit in that same field. And they also belong academically (UNC cheating notwithstanding they're an outstanding public Uni), as Ord noted. AAU membership is a cultural touchstone for the conference.

Re: Charlottesville. My last 10 years of reserve duty I was based out of Arlington and Ft. Lee/Petersburg. Between a project on training levels of reserve/Guard officers vs Full timers and a six month Desert Storm tour, I spent close to a year and a half in the area. There were many in Petersburg, and other towns near Richmond who commuted to DC. Some shared houses or condos with other gov workers on M - F basis and went home on weekends. The two to two and a half hour commute on a daily basis was not unheard of. The same was true for places like Harpers Ferry,WVA and towns in Western MD. Charlottesville was in the mix and had the advantage of being served by AMTRAK and the Virginia rail passenger service. That was during 89 - 91. I can’t imagine that the situation has improved much since.

 

[Woody1968]

Charlottesville is a town of less than 50,000 people and has no greater metro area to bump that number. It’s 2 hours from DC in decent traffic. University of Maryland is INSIDE the DC beltway. We already have the DC market, no need to double up when neither school can play football. The turtles are great because they also get us the Baltimore market.

That's incorrect. Charlottesville's metro population is 221,524 and growing.

 

[Abenaki]

I still believe that Miami and/or FSU will get the call during the next round. The state of Florida is too important re: demographics and recruiting to let the SEC dominate it. AAU is lip service at best after the same presidents who voted to admit Nebraska voted less than a year later to kick them out if the AAU. We'll see in a decade or so.

 

[kujirakira]

Re: Charlottesville. My last 10 years of reserve duty I was based out of Arlington and Ft. Lee/Petersburg. Between a project on training levels of reserve/Guard officers vs Full timers and a six month Desert Storm tour, I spent close to a year and a half in the area. There were many in Petersburg, and other towns near Richmond who commuted to DC. Some shared houses or condos with other gov workers on M - F basis and went home on weekends. The two to two and a half hour commute on a daily basis was not unheard of. The same was true for places like Harpers Ferry,WVA and towns in Western MD. Charlottesville was in the mix and had the advantage of being served by AMTRAK and the Virginia rail passenger service. That was during 89 - 91. I can’t imagine that the situation has improved much since.

If you're house sharing in another city, it's not a suburb. You wouldn't need to stay in somebody else' house.
One of my coworkers lives in Philly, workplace is in Annapolis. He rents a room from another employee M-F. Are you saying Philadelphia is a suburb of Annapolis ??

 

[cincibuck]

I’m saying that people commute from wCharlottesville to DC. Why? because they can’t afford DC or they aren’t willing to settle for the housing available in their price range without moving further from work.

 

[kujirakira]

I’m saying that people commute from wCharlottesville to DC. Why? because they can’t afford DC or they aren’t willing to settle for the housing available in their price range without moving further from work.

And I'm saying
a.) That's probably a very small minority, we govt employees get paid decently and Congress makes sure this region has a massive Locality Adjustment.
b.) There are a lot of affordable places a lot closer to DC than 2.5 hours away. Upper Marlboro-Bowie side is very affordable, and actually have transit and highway service.
c.) That's a "I want to live in this other city and deal with the headaches" call, not a "I think this is actually a reasonable commute." Such as my coworker living in Philly. Another guy on campus lives in Dover. Those aren't suburbs just because they have a house there and do weekend commutes to the DMV.
d.) The earliest AmTrak leaves Charlottesville at 9 AM and arrives in DC at 11 AM. How is that going to work for commuting ??
e.) The national housing and renting clusterf doesn't magically turn everywhere in a 3hr radius into a "suburb".

 

[Woody1968]

When I lived in Charlottesville, there were some government people who made the trip back and forth. There are some gov't contractor offices there, and the J.A.G. School is right next to UVA Law. Charlottesville isn't really a cheaper option if you work in DC. Its fairly expensive, the commute is pretty long, and there are cheaper places that are closer. It would be about the same distance as commuting to Columbus from Portsmouth, only with much worse traffic. I always felt like it was more friendly towards people that worked in Richmond, which is only an hour commute.

 

[cincibuck]

And I'm saying
a.) That's probably a very small minority, we govt employees get paid decently and Congress makes sure this region has a massive Locality Adjustment.
b.) There are a lot of affordable places a lot closer to DC than 2.5 hours away. Upper Marlboro-Bowie side is very affordable, and actually have transit and highway service.
c.) That's a "I want to live in this other city and deal with the headaches" call, not a "I think this is actually a reasonable commute." Such as my coworker living in Philly. Another guy on campus lives in Dover. Those aren't suburbs just because they have a house there and do weekend commutes to the DMV.
d.) The earliest AmTrak leaves Charlottesville at 9 AM and arrives in DC at 11 AM. How is that going to work for commuting ??
e.) The national housing and renting clusterf doesn't magically turn everywhere in a 3hr radius into a "suburb".

And that's why I posted that my observation was from 1987 to 1997. I had a Vietnam buddy who lived in a small town just north of Richmond. I visited over a weekend and got up at 5, out the door by 5:30, 3 lanes bumper to bumper got to Army Materiel Center just in time to clock in at 0800.

 

[TampaBuckeyes]

Oklahoma's home game this week is on ESPN+. All I can say is thank fucking god we didn't sign on with that shit show. I wouldn't care so much if it were Disney plus; i would buy it for the month and watch some other movies or shows, but fucking ESPN+ is worthless garbage. Just throwing away $5.

I understand that we may see our game every once a season on peacock, but at least that's a streaming service with some value, and I'll fit it into my streaming service rotation. Part of it is ESPN has a lot of channels, but they have deals with every freaking conference and that is way too much content. They will always prioritize the sec and to a lesser extent the acc, everyone else will see a lot of games on ESPN+.

 

[Woody1968]

Oklahoma's home game this week is on ESPN+. All I can say is thank fucking god we didn't sign on with that shit show. I wouldn't care so much if it were Disney plus; i would buy it for the month and watch some other movies or shows, but fucking ESPN+ is worthless garbage. Just throwing away $5.

I understand that we may see our game every once a season on peacock, but at least that's a streaming service with some value, and I'll fit it into my streaming service rotation. Part of it is ESPN has a lot of channels, but they have deals with every freaking conference and that is way too much content. They will always prioritize the sec and to a lesser extent the acc, everyone else will see a lot of games on ESPN+.

I got that Hulu/ESPN+/Disney+ combo for $13.99. I watch the EFL League Cup, the FA Cup and all the Crew matches on ESPN+, so I get my money's worth.

 

[TooTall]

I got that Hulu/ESPN+/Disney+ combo for $13.99. I watch the EFL League Cup, the FA Cup and all the Crew matches on ESPN+, so I get my money's worth.

There is quite a bit of value, plus I watch the F1 races on demand because I am not a early morning person. MLS games are making the switch to AppleTV starting next season, but there’s no blackouts. I’m currently stuck watching on Bally Sports App which is an absolute nightmarish disaster. That being said, fuck having Ohio State games relegated to the lowest of the low.