Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[SloopyHangOn]

I wonder how folks would answer if this poll were conducted again?

My original vote was Kansas, Missouri and Notre Dame. At this point I'd drop Notre Dame but I still want KU and Mizzou.

 

[Bucky32]

My original vote was Kansas, Missouri and Notre Dame. At this point I'd drop Notre Dame but I still want KU and Mizzou.

Just curious as to what your rationale for wanting to add Kansas is, especially over Notre Dame.

 

[SloopyHangOn]

Just curious as to what your rationale for wanting to add Kansas is, especially over Notre Dame.

Expansion is bigger than just football.

As an institution KU brings more to the table than Notre Dame and athletically they offer strength in BBall as well as other B1G sports.

I think the TV market that KU and Mizzou would bring are noteworthy as well. Certainly equal or greater than what Rutgers/Maryland has.

 

[Bucky32]

Expansion is bigger than just football.

As an institution KU brings more to the table than Notre Dame and athletically they offer strength in BBall as well as other B1G sports.

I think the TV market that KU and Mizzou would bring are noteworthy as well. Certainly equal or greater than what Rutgers/Maryland has.

As it stands, maybe. But the potential of the NYC and Maryland markets blows away anything the St. Louis and Kansas City markets can offer.

 

[BuckTwenty]

I remember an argument somewhere in the other 664 pages of this thread that we already pretty much have the St. Louis market through Illinois. It wouldn't be the type of "get" that it would be breaking into a completely new market/state.

 

[SloopyHangOn]

As it stands, maybe. But the potential of the NYC and Maryland markets blows away anything the St. Louis and Kansas City markets can offer.

It's not about St. Louis/KC vs Maryland/NY it's about the people who watch college sports.

I don't have any research and I may be talking out of pure speculation, but the amount of people that watch KU/Mizzou sports is WAYYY higher than those that watch Rutgers/Terapin sports.

 

[Abenaki]

I wonder how folks would answer if this poll were conducted again?

I'd answer it the same way I did...stay at 12. I still think the B1G did okay in expansion, especially if you count it as a whole going back to the early 90's moves, I just don't see Rutgers or Maryland bringing anything better than bandwagon fans and mediocre-to-occasionally-good football. Maryland could add something on the basketball side, but Rutgers isn't even the best college basketball team in New Jersey (Hi NJIT ).

 

[scarletmike]

It's not about St. Louis/KC vs Maryland/NY it's about the people who watch college sports.

I don't have any research and I may be talking out of pure speculation, but the amount of people that watch KU/Mizzou sports is WAYYY higher than those that watch Rutgers/Terapin sports.

It isn't about how many people actually watch the BTN, it is all about how many subscribers end up with the BTN in the basic cable tier, and I'm pretty sure that number of TV sets/subscribers is way higher in the NYC/DC corridor than the St. Louis and KC markets. If 25% of the subscriber base in the area wanting BTN is all it takes (I have no clue, just giving an example) to get it on basic, they get the same in subscriber fees as if 75%+ want and watch it. Advertising dollars are a little different, but you have to have the possibility for all those eyeballs to see the channel before you can even think about that.

 

[SloopyHangOn]

It isn't about how many people actually watch the BTN, it is all about how many subscribers end up with the BTN in the basic cable tier, and I'm pretty sure that number of TV sets/subscribers is way higher in the NYC/DC corridor than the St. Louis and KC markets. If 25% of the subscriber base in the area wanting BTN is all it takes (I have no clue, just giving an example) to get it on basic, they get the same in subscriber fees as if 75%+ want and watch it. Advertising dollars are a little different, but you have to have the possibility for all those eyeballs to see the channel before you can even think about that.

I guess that's true, I just feel like regardless of potential eyes, the amount of people that would actually subscribe to BTN if their team would be featured on it is proportionately higher in the KCMO/STL area than NYC/DC. Maybe that ultimately means nothing if BTN ends up packaged with other stations that are more densely viewed in the NYC/DC area.

 

[kujirakira]

Do they really think adding two mid-majors is the way to get themselves into the playoff? They need to instead focus on playing a better non-conference schedule rather than watering down their conference product even more.

It's funny because Bowlsby blew his load prematurely with the "co champs" thing -- if he doesn't do that, I'm not sure what the committee decides for #4. There is no doubt that co champs label and the spectacle Briles made over it hurt their chances.
Now they're blowing their load prematurely again, reaching for schools that nobody else would touch**, because they haven't realized that the problem was a) OOC schedule b) just need 1 upset in 4 CCGs c) bad year especially with that OU loss. If/when UT and OU unscrew themselves, they'll be fine with the 10-team round robin format w/o further watering down their brand, revenue, and making their schedule even worse.
But screw them, panic and fuck it up more please.

**every obvious high profile school has already been taken off the market with SEC, B1G, and ACC expanding to 14. And the PAC is obviously holding out for BXII to crumble to get their last 4.
UConn is the lone exception imo (premier public research University that is terrible at football but does have basketball?)

It would be sweet if the day after UC got their coveted invite to B12, Texas and OU jumped to the B1G

The goons on Shaggy won't to follow in the steps of ND and go independent. I'd take it imo... that'd be the end of the BXII as a major conference, and let them have a taste of reality before crawling back to one of the 4 conferences. It works for ND because they're Catholic USA, their support base is away from their actual campus - primarily on the coasts. They also have long-standing relationships with the Military Academies to help fill out their schedule.
What is Texas going to do? Their entire fan base is localized... host Houston, SMU, Rice, North Texas, etc. every year? Reach back out to Aggy and Ark? Would OU would be more forgiving to them than Texas has to everyone else that's left the conference? Coming up with 3-4 OOC opponents is a major undertaking for most ADs... where are they going to replace 9 conference games? And how are they going to get to at least 7 home games w/o having to pay everyone? I guess they have the money to do it that way, but... it's throwing good money right down the toilet.

 

[kujirakira]

As it stands, maybe. But the potential of the NYC and Maryland markets blows away anything the St. Louis and Kansas City markets can offer.

The recruiting scene also comes into play with Rutgers and Maryland.
Those two schools haven't had tons of athletic success, but they bring so much more outside athletics and were pretty savvy adds at the end of the day. The Northeast, especially NYC and the Beltway, are now B1G turf. The ACC has a few private and minor institutions dotted around in there, but the first flagship for their state/region is Virginia... and that's effectively the border.

I voted UT and OU. Agree with exhawg that OU is a no-go by themselves. UT is a headache, but the West Division desperately needs something more, and adding those two would put the B1G on equal footing with the SEC in football, and blow them away in every other category. UT, OU, Corn, and Wiscy in the West would be amazing. OSU, scUM, PSU in the East with Dantonio's MSU and UA-backed Maryland is already excellent.
At the end of the day, though, I think they end up in the PAC.

 

[cincibuck]

It's not about St. Louis/KC vs Maryland/NY it's about the people who watch college sports.

I don't have any research and I may be talking out of pure speculation, but the amount of people that watch KU/Mizzou sports is WAYYY higher than those that watch Rutgers/Terapin sports.

I think you might be surprised at the level of interest in college sports in DC. For one thing there are lots of 20 and 30 somethings who work and live within the outer belt. They pack the bars in Arlington and Alexandria, probably other sections too. Big Ten alums bring their culture with them.

 

[cincibuck]

The recruiting scene also comes into play with Rutgers and Maryland.
Those two schools haven't had tons of athletic success, but they bring so much more outside athletics and were pretty savvy adds at the end of the day. The Northeast, especially NYC and the Beltway, are now B1G turf. The ACC has a few private and minor institutions dotted around in there, but the first flagship for their state/region is Virginia... and that's effectively the border.

I voted UT and OU. Agree with exhawg that OU is a no-go by themselves. UT is a headache, but the West Division desperately needs something more, and adding those two would put the B1G on equal footing with the SEC in football, and blow them away in every other category. UT, OU, Corn, and Wiscy in the West would be amazing. OSU, scUM, PSU in the East with Dantonio's MSU and UA-backed Maryland is already excellent.
At the end of the day, though, I think they end up in the PAC.

i just can't agree. Bad cultural mix with oil barons at both schools quite willing to do whatever meets their needs to the detriment of the conference- I can all but guarantee the first demand would be to play theCCG at Jerrys place. It creates tremendous travel distances for non-revenue sports and does not do one damn thing to promote the Northeast/Midwest footprint - no one in Texas is going to do squat about securing a CFPS site north of Dallas.

 

[siebs7]

I currently live in St. Louis, and I have ATT Uverse and already get BTN. So I don't think that adding Missouri or Kansas would bring in much more than the KC/Lawrence market.

 

[matcar]

I currently live in St. Louis, and I have ATT Uverse and already get BTN. So I don't think that adding Missouri or Kansas would bring in much more than the KC/Lawrence market.

Yeah that's really just not a worthwhile addition.