Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[ORD_Buckeye]

Actually this is what I think really deserves some attention. If the Big Ten can convince ND that they are going to expand with or without them, what does ND then do? In 1999 ND knew the Big Ten wasn't seriously looking at any other dance partners. They knew they could decline the invite while keeping the possibility open for future membership. If suddenly the Big Ten says to ND "it's now or never, if you don't then we'll get sombody else" I thnk ND may go for it. If the Big Ten goes to 12 without ND, the Big East is the only alternative.

Being Notre Dame, they'd ask if they could join the CIC independent of Big Ten membeship.:(

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Just so we put the football/athletic money in perspective, the 12 CIC members pulled in 4.5 billion dollars in external research funding last year. That's an average of over 400 million....or 4 x Ohio State's entire athletic budget. Ohio State's pull was 720 million.

 

[Buckeye737]

A co-worker of mine threw out a school that I haven't heard mentioned yet - Memphis. I have no idea what Memphis is like academically, but I know they are NOT part of the AAU. Also, they aren't in a Big10 bordering state, so they'd have to pass that hurdle also.

It doesn't seem like much of a fit to me, but at least it's a team that may love to get into a strong conference for football & basketball.

 

[smithlabs]

Perhaps I am showing my age but doesn't Ohio State play in the CCHA for hockey? Why would hockey matter to B10 expansion?

 

[IronBuckI]

Perhaps I am showing my age but doesn't Ohio State play in the CCHA for hockey? Why would hockey matter to B10 expansion?

Yes they do, but the Big Ten wants to form their own hockey conference. The Big Ten Network has a lot to gain from something like Big Ten hockey.

 

[Mike80]

A co-worker of mine threw out a school that I haven't heard mentioned yet - Memphis. I have no idea what Memphis is like academically, but I know they are NOT part of the AAU. Also, they aren't in a Big10 bordering state, so they'd have to pass that hurdle also.

It doesn't seem like much of a fit to me, but at least it's a team that may love to get into a strong conference for football & basketball.

No chance.

If the Big Ten is looking at, say, 10 schools, Memphis would be 10000000th on the list

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Perhaps I am showing my age but doesn't Ohio State play in the CCHA for hockey? Why would hockey matter to B10 expansion?

Big Ten Network would very much like a BT hockey conference for programming. Two sticking points: Minny is opposed, and even with them, there aren't enough D1 schools to form an ncaa conference (have 5 need 8).

 

[bigdog3300]

Throwing out an idea, but Vanderbilt would certainly be able to handle the academics side......as would Virginia. I don't see Virginia leaving the ACC though, but sure would love to have them.

 

[mross34]

Throwing out an idea, but Vanderbilt would certainly be able to handle the academics side......as would Virginia. I don't see Virginia leaving the ACC though, but sure would love to have them.

I think that both of those schools are great fits academically. They'd be at or near the top of the conference. However, the ACC is a damn good academic conference in its own right with schools like UVa, BC, Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, UNC, Maryland, Virginia Tech, and Miami.

However, I don't think either of those schools is a fit for what they're seeking out athletically.

 

[Gothmog8]

Some of this is already mentioned but IMO:

Big 10 would have to change name to save face. Already take flak for not being able to count.

Athletically (Football) a good team might want to join because they may think they could dominate the conference because their current conference is "too" hard and they would have success against the "slow" Big 10.

or

A good team might NOT want to come to the Big Ten because of the negative press lately associated with it.

Who knows... I have no control, so I just watch. However, if alumni could vote...

 

[jlb1705]

Some of this is already mentioned but IMO:

Big 10 would have to change name to save face. Already take flak for not being able to count.

The name stays. The Big Ten is a brand. You don't mess with that.

You don't go to Kentucky for Kentucky Fried Chicken, do you? Well I do, but that's beside the point. You can still call it the Big Ten no matter how many teams schools there are. I don't care if it's low hanging fruit for idiots like Dennis Dodd.

The idea that a conference that grants a quarter of the country's doctorates and would potentially have 4 of the top 7 winningest football programs of all time in football would have to "save face" over anything seems a bit absurd to me.

 

[cincibuck]

Dump Penn State and play a 9-game conference schedule with 3 OOC games. Keep current tie-breakers in case of co-champions. Expansion is bullshit and totally unneeded...it serves no purpose other than to appease the media dipshits.

1. Penn State gives the conference East Coast Market visibility.

2. Penn State brings a 100K stadium into the mix to help pay for games with Indiana, Northwestern...

3. Penn State has been a recognized premier program for the last 50 years. Why would you drop that from a conference that is already getting knocks for having slipped.

4. As far as I know Penn State brings more to the academic table, especially in graduate education, research facilities and faculty than Notre Dame, possibly Mizzou.

 

[starBUCKS]

Certain "insiders" seem to think Missouri is the school to beat for the spot. Personally I think Notre Dame is the route to go. For history, regional convenience, academics and strength of programs (even though of late football has sucked). There would be a sense of classic midwest pride in that addition, all the Heismans, Championships and legendary players is special. The rivalries already exist with other Big Ten schools, and it would be the most seamless transition.

While Texas has the most "sizzle", I don't think it's a practical choice.

 

[CleveBucks]

Here's an interesting theory.

The Big Ten gives the Big East a year to cut all ties with ND. If The Big East doesn't kick ND to the curb, the Big Ten raids the Big East of their best programs. How about a 14-team league with the addition of Pitt, Syracuse, and Rutgers. Essentially a death warrant for the Big East as we know it. ND has nowhere to turn for bowl games and non-football sports, so they come crawling back to the Big Ten.

 

[JXC]

2009 Academic Ranking of World Universities

(World ranking listed first with U.S. rank in parenthesis, Big Ten schools in bold)
#9 (8) Univ. of Chicago
#17 (15) Wisconsin
#22 (18) scUM
#25 (19) Illinois
#28 (20) Minnesota
#30 (22) Northwestern
#38 (29) Texas
#41 (31) Vanderbilt
#45 (32) Penn State
#50 (37) Pittsburgh
#55 (38) Rutgers
#62 (41) Ohio State
#65 (42) Purdue
#86 (48) Michigan State
#93 (52) Indiana
#101-151 (60-77) Iowa
#152-200 (78-99) Cincinnati
#152-200 (78-99) Iowa State
#152-200 (78-99) Nebraska
#201-302 (100-134) Kentucky
#201-302 (100-134) Missouri
#201-302 (100-134) Notre Ame
#303-401 (135-162) Syracuse
#402-501 (163-184) Boston College
#402-501 (163-184) Louisville
Not Listed - West Virginia


Some of those rankings were pretty surprising!

I think the methodology that this site uses is pretty flawed. I'm sorry, but Cincinnati and the University of Miami are not better schools academically than Notre Dame and Boston College. Doesn't even have Miami University listed in the top 500.

Here is a much more respected look of how schools rank academically.

National Universities Rankings - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report

In the order of the other site:


#8 Univ. of Chicago
#39 Wisconsin
#27 Michigan
#39 Illinois
#61 Minnesota
#12 Northwestern
#47 Texas
#17 Vanderbilt
#47 Penn State
#56 Pittsburgh
#66 Rutgers
#53 Ohio State
#61 Purdue
#71 Michigan State
#71 Indiana
#71 Iowa
#Tier 3 Cincinnati
#88 Iowa State
#96 Nebraska
#128 Kentucky
#102 Missouri
#20 Notre Dame
#58 Syracuse
#34 Boston College
Tier 3 Louisville
Teir 3 West Virginia

Rearranged:

#8 Univ. of Chicago
#12 Northwestern
#17 Vanderbilt
#20 Notre Dame
#27 Michigan
#34 Boston College
#39 Wisconsin
#39 Illinois
#47 Penn State
#47 Texas
#53 Ohio State
#56 Pittsburgh
#58 Syracuse
#61 Minnesota
#61 Purdue
#66 Rutgers
#71 Michigan State
#71 Indiana
#71 Iowa
#88 Iowa State
#96 Nebraska
#102 Missouri
#128 Kentucky
Tier 3 Cincinnati
Tier 3 Louisville
Tier 3 West Virginia

Nebraska and Missouri would bring the Big Ten down academically. Rutgers would fit okay, but not great. Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame seem like great academic fits, as well as good geographically.
Boston College seems a little far east, and Texas seems a little far Southwest. Vanderbilt isn't that far away.

I don't think we could steal a team from the SEC. I also think it would be hard to steal a team away for the Big 12, but more likely than getting an SEC team. Texas just seems like it would be way to far away though, as nice as it would be for the Big Ten. I'd think Boston College would be more likely than Texas, but I don't think it's that likely either. I think we would probably end up with a Big East team or Notre Dame. If this is going to happen, my guess would be it would end up being Pitt.

If we end up getting three though, then I could see Syracuse, Pitt, and Missouri. If we are going to do it, might as well get 14 teams. That'd be a hell of a conference, both for football and basketball.

I think we are dreaming if we think Notre Dame is going to join any conference in football. Doesn't make sense for them.