Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[cincibuck]

As you say, expansion means a CCG. There is no doubt about it. A CCG that likely will be played in snow or freezing rain most years. Meanwhile, the SEC and PAC10 play in temperate weather.

A CCG means that weather might determine whether the top team in the country is denied a shot at the NC. It's not worth it.

Oh - My - God -- OK, I don't like the idea of CCG anymore than you. It demeans the regular season, it runs the risk of putting the lesser team in the better bowl. It's strictly a money maker for the TV industry and an added detriment to the academic side of the student-athlete myth.

But weather? You haven't seen monsoon like rain in SEC land? I bet Atlanta and Knoxville have had as much snow and ice as Cincinnati over the last 10 years.

This is football, not beach blanket bingo. You can play the game in good or bad weather. Teams might have to learn how to pass and catch in cold weather?

Didn't Bart Starr come from Alabama, how about Joe Namath? Carson Palmer?Seems to me that the NFL proves that a) good athletes can play in cold weather b) you don't have to play the game south of the Mason - Dixon Line past November. Do you see any empty seats in Lambeau or Heinz during the playoffs?

You put a good product on the field -- A Big 10 champ vs an SEC/Big 12/Pac 10 champ and the fans will show up. CCG or BCS, they'll show up.

 

[cincibuck]

Detroit, Minnesota, and Indianapolis might have a solution to the weather problem.

I'm not a proponent for a CCG. However, with three domes in Big Ten territory, I don't think that weather will be a factor.

Please, please, please; arena ball is not the answer.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

I realize this is all hypothetical but looking at this has gotten me thinking about something.

If you have a 7 team division that locks you into 6 games, plus 4 OOC games leaves you with only 2 games a year vs the other division. Now lets say they decided to split up OSU and scUM (I'd be 100% against it but lets just say) you now use 1 of the 2 slots for The Game every year.

So if you had this exact format;
1) There could always be the chance for a rematch 1 week after The Game if both teams won their divisions.
2) We would only play MSU, Illinois, NU, Wisky, Iowa and Minny once every 6 years in the regular season. No big deal on each of those teams for us but given all the rivalry games in the B10 it would be something to consider when breaking up divisions.

EDIT
Also, if we assume this happens look at how bad our SOS will be for the foreseeable future.

3 OOC cupcakes
1 OOC BCS program
PSU
Pitt
The Cuse
Rutgers
IU
Purdue
1 of the western teams
scUM
B10 CCG

I know we lost to Purdue this year but it was a fluke. The bolded teams are actual BE or BE level teams. Unless SU, Rutgers and Pitt got a whole lot better in a short period of time our SOS could actually get worse.

I'm not really in favor of adding Big East teams if a Texas, Missouri, Nebraska, and/or Notre Dame is available. I'd like to expand west, not east, (1) to keep the Big Ten a "midwest" conference, and (2) to allow Ohio State and Michigan to remain in the same division. I'm just saying, if you take one Big East school, you might as well take three, because all of them will be available after the conference collapses.

As far as the 14-team conference:

In a 14-team conference with two 7-team divisions, each team plays six games within its division, three games against teams in the other division, and three games against out of conference opponents. That way, each team in one division would have a home-away series with every team in the other division at least every five years. Maybe not ideal, but not too bad, either.

The PAC-10 teams play nine in-conference games and three OOC games, so there is a precedent for playing only three OOC games every year.

Alternatively, each team could play six games within its division, four games against teams in the other division, and two games against out of conference opponents. way, each team in one division would have a home-away series with every team in the other division at least every four years.

Back in the good old days, Ohio State often played only two non-conference games every year. Three OOC games became the norm in 1974, and four OOC games did not become standard until 2006. Non-conference games are generally a waste of time, unless it is a quality match-up like Southern Cal, Miami, Oklahoma, Tennessee, etc. Games against MAC schools are nothing more than glorified scrimmages, and there's no reason for Ohio State to play three scrimmages every year. So, I'd be in favor of reducing the number of non-conference games and expanding the number of conference games, even without Big Ten expansion.

In any event, four OOC games is too many, especially when three of them are MAC-level schools.

 

[BigWoof31]

I'm not going to read through this entire thread - so can anyone answer this question?


Would this expansion be for football only? Or are you looking to add talent in the winter by bringing in a good basketball program? If that's the case - Pitt and L'Ville look to be good options.


Wild Eyed/Left field/WTF suggestion of the day: Anyone considered Virginia Tech? Sure bring the DC/Mid Atlantic TV market into play.

 

[CleveBucks]

It would be a full member for all sports.

Here's another blog breaking down the candidates.

Big Ten exapansion?talk...again? - The Crimson Quarry

I think you can safely throw out any tier 3 academic school, any school not in the AAU with the exception of ND, and any school in a current Big Ten state with the exception of ND. That would eliminate Pitt, Cincy, WVU, Louisville at least.

 

[jlb1705]

I'm not going to read through this entire thread - so can anyone answer this question?


Would this expansion be for football only? Or are you looking to add talent in the winter by bringing in a good basketball program? If that's the case - Pitt and L'Ville look to be good options.


Wild Eyed/Left field/WTF suggestion of the day: Anyone considered Virginia Tech? Sure bring the DC/Mid Atlantic TV market into play.

Virginia Tech is much less "WTF" than Louisville. Louisville has hoops, but they don't have football, they don't have the academics and they don't add a significant media market. Virginia Tech could be a natural geographic rival for Penn State.

Pitt would be a good choice I think if not for the Big Ten Network. I have to think part of this move has to be about expanding the conference's media footprint. The only school from within the current footprint that does that is Notre Dame, not Pitt.

 

[cincibuck]

2009 Academic Ranking of World Universities

(World ranking listed first with U.S. rank in parenthesis, Big Ten schools in bold)
#9 (8) Univ. of Chicago
#17 (15) Wisconsin
#22 (18) scUM
#25 (19) Illinois
#28 (20) Minnesota
#30 (22) Northwestern
#38 (29) Texas
#41 (31) Vanderbilt
#45 (32) Penn State
#50 (37) Pittsburgh
#55 (38) Rutgers
#62 (41) Ohio State
#65 (42) Purdue
#86 (48) Michigan State
#93 (52) Indiana
#101-151 (60-77) Iowa
#152-200 (78-99) Cincinnati
#152-200 (78-99) Iowa State
#152-200 (78-99) Nebraska
#201-302 (100-134) Kentucky
#201-302 (100-134) Missouri
#201-302 (100-134) Notre Ame
#303-401 (135-162) Syracuse
#402-501 (163-184) Boston College
#402-501 (163-184) Louisville
Not Listed - West Virginia


Some of those rankings were pretty surprising!

And perhaps reflective of what has happened to the economies of Big 10 states. In the past Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota poured money into their higher education programs -- Ohio , alas, did not. Now the money isn't there to pour.

 

[BB73]

Ahhhh...well [censored] the committee.

I think this whole thing is crap anyway. Stay at 11 teams. Play everybody plus 2 non conference games. Start making those two non-conference games relevant for everybody. That's what I would like to see. Then, if you want more money, get the NCAA to add a 13th game that is special just for the Big Ten and the SEC, a Big Ten/SEC challenge.

Every year they go by last years standings, and #1 plays #1, #2 plays #2...and so on. That's how you make the sport better and generate more money. Have everybody play a 13th game against the SEC...not just 1 title game.

I hope we don't expand JUST to get a title game. It's highly overrated. Pac-10 does it best.

And I still find it funny that all these presidents are all of the championship games, but not for a playoff, even though championship games are pretty much like a playoff. Idiots. All these people running college football are idiots. I think the best thing for everybody to do is just CHANGE nothing. It works right now as it is, and even though it could get better, if they try and change it they are probably just going to [censored] it up.

This sounds just like you in the playoff thread.

 

[cincibuck]

Actually this is what I think really deserves some attention. If the Big Ten can convince ND that they are going to expand with or without them, what does ND then do? In 1999 ND knew the Big Ten wasn't seriously looking at any other dance partners. They knew they could decline the invite while keeping the possibility open for future membership. If suddenly the Big Ten says to ND "it's now or never, if you don't then we'll get sombody else" I thnk ND may go for it. If the Big Ten goes to 12 without ND, the Big East is the only alternative.

My understanding was that it was a done deal, faculty and admin extremely happy and then the news leaked out to students and alums and they pitched a hissy fit -- it's what Domers do -- and the deal was stopped just short of signing.

 

[CleveBucks]

Big Ten looking to add 12th team - AltoonaMirror.com | News, Sports, Jobs, Community Information - The Altoona Mirror

It had been widely speculated the Big Ten's bylaws, which are not public record, stipulated that any expansion school had to meet two criteria. One, it had to be a member of the academically prestigious Association of American Universities, which includes only 62 schools, and it also had to be in or border a state with an existing Big Ten institution.

Those criteria, if in place, would have limited the number of large, athletically successful schools the Big Ten could have gone after to about 10.

The two stipulations, it turns out, do not have to be met.

"There are no restrictions regarding expansion - potential additions are not required to be in the AAU, and they do not have to be in (or adjacent to) the eight Big Ten states," league spokesman Scott Chipman wrote in an e-mail.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I'm not really in favor of adding Big East teams if a Texas, Missouri, Nebraska, and/or Notre Dame is available. I'd like to expand west, not east, (1) to keep the Big Ten a "midwest" conference, and (2) to allow Ohio State and Michigan to remain in the same division. I'm just saying, if you take one Big East school, you might as well take three, because all of them will be available after the conference collapses.

As far as the 14-team conference:


In any event, four OOC games is too many, especially when three of them are MAC-level schools.

Got it, never saw the 14 team conference post.

One thing about giving up the 4th OOC game is you are essentially asking teams to forgo a guaranteed home game for a conference game. The CCG payout would have to offset that or you are building a revenue cut into the plan.

As far as the BE teams vs the B12 teams I was just looking at it from a football POV. I grew up in Western NY and have always thought Syracuse would be a good fit. They can be good at football again with the right guy just like Pitt could. They are both an instant upgrade to Bball. Syracuse LAX is second to none.

 

[BuckTwenty]

2009 Academic Ranking of World Universities

(World ranking listed first with U.S. rank in parenthesis, Big Ten schools in bold)
#9 (8) Univ. of Chicago
#17 (15) Wisconsin
#22 (18) scUM
#25 (19) Illinois
#27 (1 CAN) Univ. of Toronto
#28 (20) Minnesota
#30 (22) Northwestern
#38 (29) Texas
#41 (31) Vanderbilt
#45 (32) Penn State
#50 (37) Pittsburgh
#55 (38) Rutgers
#62 (41) Ohio State
#65 (42) Purdue
#86 (48) Michigan State
#93 (52) Indiana
#101-151 (60-77) Iowa
#152-200 (78-99) Cincinnati
#152-200 (78-99) Iowa State
#152-200 (78-99) Nebraska
#201-302 (100-134) Kentucky
#201-302 (100-134) Missouri
#201-302 (100-134) Notre Ame
#303-401 (135-162) Syracuse
#402-501 (163-184) Boston College
#402-501 (163-184) Louisville
Not Listed - West Virginia

Forgot that the University of Toronto was being thrown around in the discussion earlier. They come in at #27 in the world, #1 school in Canada.

 

[kippy1040]

So if we bring in Syracuse to make it all even. Then do we call the conference "The Great Lakes 12" or "The Midwest"12. You could call them the "Erie Division and the Michigan Division".

 

[Ttown]

For the fishermen among us how about "the erie dearies". Scum would fit right in there.

 

[BigWoof31]

So if we bring in Syracuse to make it all even. Then do we call the conference "The Great Lakes 12" or "The Midwest"12. You could call them the "Erie Division and the Michigan Division".

Don't do this. Just go North and South/East and West

The ACC did the Atlantic and Coastal thing and nobody knows who the fuck plays where...