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Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

Which Teams Should the Big Ten Add? (please limit to four selections)

  • Boston College

    Votes: 32 10.2%
  • Cincinnati

    Votes: 19 6.1%
  • Connecticut

    Votes: 6 1.9%
  • Duke

    Votes: 21 6.7%
  • Georgia Tech

    Votes: 55 17.6%
  • Kansas

    Votes: 46 14.7%
  • Maryland

    Votes: 67 21.4%
  • Missouri

    Votes: 90 28.8%
  • North Carolina

    Votes: 39 12.5%
  • Notre Dame

    Votes: 209 66.8%
  • Oklahoma

    Votes: 78 24.9%
  • Pittsburgh

    Votes: 45 14.4%
  • Rutgers

    Votes: 40 12.8%
  • Syracuse

    Votes: 18 5.8%
  • Texas

    Votes: 121 38.7%
  • Vanderbilt

    Votes: 15 4.8%
  • Virginia

    Votes: 47 15.0%
  • Virginia Tech

    Votes: 62 19.8%
  • Stay at 12 teams and don't expand

    Votes: 27 8.6%
  • Add some other school(s) not listed

    Votes: 25 8.0%

  • Total voters
    313
Buckeye Maniac;2310013; said:
The Big Ten has absolutely nothing to do with the AAU...

I should have been more clear. Is it possible the B1G would make a clause requiring for an entering school to meet AAU requirements/specifications within a time period in order to possibly gain membership. I realize the B1G does not grant membership
 
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HorticullyBuck;2310254; said:
I should have been more clear. Is it possible the B1G would make a clause requiring for an entering school to meet AAU requirements/specifications within a time period in order to possibly gain membership. I realize the B1G does not grant membership

Ah, yes, I could see that, but I don't think it would apply to FSU, as they're nowhere near an AAU quality school.
 
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Muck;2310075; said:
Catholic 7 will begin play this year. Will keep Big East name. Xavier & Butler will join immediately. Big East will pay their exit fees ($2M).

UD, Saint Louis & Creighton might be joining the later.

In exchange for giving up the Big East name the remaining football schools (that's UConn, USF & Cincy folks) will keep the exit fees & tournament credits of the FB schools leaving (Rutgers, WVU, Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt) as well as the entry fees for the new members. That could be worth upwards of $80M.

If they can't get into the ACC a year early, ND may compete in the reborn Big East for 13-14.

LINKS:
Yahoo
ESPN
SI
ABC
CBS Sports
CBS Sports - Big East Realignment Funds

A good summation can be found on this Hoya Blog

So the 2013-2014 Big East lineup most likely look like (rank is RPI):
10. Georgetown 22-4
13. Marquette 20-7
29. Butler 22-6
45. Notre Dame 22-6
56. Villanova 18-11
62. St. John's 16-11
83. Xavier 16-11
85. Providence 15-12
115. Seton Hall 14-15
188. DePaul 11-17

Possible future members:
29. Saint Louis 22-5
42. Creighton 23-7
109. Dayton 15-12

Defecting:
12. Syracuse 22-6
43. Pitt 22-7
111. Rutgers 13-13

Left Behind:
33. UConn 19-8
51. UC 19-9
134. USF 10-17

Joining the left behinds:
20. Memphis 24-4
39. Temple 20-8
99. ECU 12-10
108. UCF 19-9
171. Tulane 18-10
209. Houston 15-11
218. SMU 14-14

For all of the alleged BB prowess of the C7 teams only Georgetown & Villanova have actually won conference titles over the past twenty years. Georgetown outright in 06-07 & 07-08 while Villanova had two shared titles in 96-97 & 05-06. Out of the top 10 in attendance only 3 are from the C7 Marquette (#3), Georgetown (#5) & Villanova (#8).

Personally I just don't see the value ascribed to most of the C7 schools.

Very nice summary. With the C7 it is not about value so much it is about freedom/flexibility. With the current BE+C7 you are selling a 5th rate football conference + a 5-8th rate BB conference. The C7 get nothing from the football portion but any contract would be based/sold to TV for its football with BB secondary. If you spinoff the BB you can sell to different TV than selling the football to ESPN/CBS etc. So they are figuring that they can make more with a smaller targeted audience(niche) then the leftovers from a BE TV deal.

You look at the football side and it is really the same thing. No national appeal at all. The schools are going to have to play on Wed night like the Mac to get any money from the national tv. If they sold their TV to local TV (targeted tv I.E. Houston Phi, Boston, Cinc) they would make almost as much and have less hassle. But of course no national tv which would hurt their recruiting.
 
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I don't get why I keep seeing Kansas as a potential expansion partner if the B1G were able to get UVA, UNC, & GT. I get that they're in the AAU. However, the economics of it don't work, in large part because of population. Kansas is not going to add $30+ million to the B1G pot. Heck, the B1G is supposedly telling UNC each school could be getting $44 million per school, which would mean any potential addition would have to bring in at least $44 million to break even. By adding Kansas as another piece of the pie, everyone's $ share gets smaller, not bigger. Delaney's not going to do that.

If the B1G is going to expand past 17 and continue to add to everybody's $ share, they're going to have to take at least one non-AAU school as #18, whether that be ND or a school like FSU, and the liklihood that the B1G would take non-AAU schools is only going to go up from there for schools #19 & #20, as it will be stiffer and stiffer to find an AAU school that could bring in enough money to warrant a spot on the conference roster.

The list of FCS AAU schools that wouldn't bring in enough money to warrant being school #18: Buffalo, Iowa State, Kansas, Pittsburgh, Rice, and Tulane. AAU schools that would bring enough money to the collective pot but whose odds are somewhere between slim and none of joining the B1G would be Florida, Texas, Texas A&M, and a good deal of the original Pac 10 (the latter of which who would be too far away geographically to realistically join the conference anyways).

The following would be your AAU expansion options. None of them would be considered a home run, and all are debatable as to whether they would actually bring in enough money to financially make sense as an expansion partner:

Colorado - The state school that touches a state in the B1G (Nebraska), but would they add enough money to make themselves an option? Even if they did, could you get past the Pac 12's Grant of Rights (GOR)?
Duke - Only an option if UNC says no, and even then, could they carry the whole state by themself like UNC would?
Missouri - From what I've heard, the BTN is on in part of Missouri (because of U of Illinois). With that in mind, would they add enough to the pot to consider making financial sense?
Vanderbilt - 2nd fiddle in their state, but an interesting option in a B1G-free state in an area of the country that the conference is looking to expand. Could Vandy add enough to the collective pot to be a serious/realistic expansion option?

Note: Syracuse is no longer an AAU school, after voluntarily removing themselves from the AAU in 2011 instead of being put to a vote (ala Nebraska).

Also Note: Boston College is not an AAU school and never has been. Boston University, however, is. And no, they are not the same school.


In conclusion, this all leads me to believe one of two things: 1) The B1G is looking to add only 2 more schools (to get to 16 total) and that list includes only 3 schools: UVA, UNC, & GT.

OR

2) The B1G is looking to add all 3 of UVA, UNC, & GT, and is willing to wait it out at 17 schools (like when the B1G did when they stayed at 11 schools for a decade and a half) until "something happens" that changes the game... whether that be a conference dies (ACC, Big XII, etc), an AAU school suddenly has a change of heart about their conference (like Texas A&M), Notre Dame goes against all that it considers holy and joins the B1G, the AAU gives its accreditation to a school that would be a great addition to the conference that is not currently on the list of AAU schools, or Delaney and B1G presidents *miraculously* decide to go against all it supposedly considers holy and decides to add a non-AAU school not named Notre Dame.

If I were a betting man, Delaney's course of action is option #1. In my opinion, count on the B1G trying to add two of UVA, UNC, and GT with the thought in mind that may not add any more schools to the conference.
 
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BuckTwenty;2310524; said:
I don't get why I keep seeing Kansas as a potential expansion partner if the B1G were able to get UVA, UNC, & GT.

I think I saw something suggesting Kansas to shore up men's basketball. If that's the case, just try to get Duke (even though you're doubling up on a state, if you can get North Carolina). I don't even know the population demographics of Kansas either, compared to North Carolina or others.

I think people are just writing for the sake of writing. You saw how secretive the Big Ten was when Maryland and Rutgers were added. People are just throwing things against the wall, for the sake of writing.

I mean, I saw someone suggest Vanderbilt canceled the series with Northwestern and Ohio State because they were going to join the Big Ten. Just conspiracy theories at this point.
 
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VBSJ;2310526; said:
I think I saw something suggesting Kansas to shore up men's basketball. If that's the case, just try to get Duke (even though you're doubling up on a state, if you can get North Carolina). I don't even know the population demographics of Kansas either, compared to North Carolina or others.

I think people are just writing for the sake of writing. You saw how secretive the Big Ten was when Maryland and Rutgers were added. People are just throwing things against the wall, for the sake of writing.

I mean, I saw someone suggest Vanderbilt canceled the series with Northwestern and Ohio State because they were going to join the Big Ten. Just conspiracy theories at this point.

You know, why not Cincinnati? I mean, that would definitely get the west side Cincinnati market left over after all the "Catholics" root for ND. :wink2:
 
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BuckTwenty;2310524; said:
I don't get why I keep seeing Kansas as a potential expansion partner if the B1G were able to get UVA, UNC, & GT. I get that they're in the AAU. However, the economics of it don't work, in large part because of population. Kansas is not going to add $30+ million to the B1G pot. Heck, the B1G is supposedly telling UNC each school could be getting $44 million per school, which would mean any potential addition would have to bring in at least $44 million to break even. By adding Kansas as another piece of the pie, everyone's $ share gets smaller, not bigger. Delaney's not going to do that.

If the B1G is going to expand past 17 and continue to add to everybody's $ share, they're going to have to take at least one non-AAU school as #18, whether that be ND or a school like FSU, and the liklihood that the B1G would take non-AAU schools is only going to go up from there for schools #19 & #20, as it will be stiffer and stiffer to find an AAU school that could bring in enough money to warrant a spot on the conference roster.

The list of FCS AAU schools that wouldn't bring in enough money to warrant being school #18: Buffalo, Iowa State, Kansas, Pittsburgh, Rice, and Tulane. AAU schools that would bring enough money to the collective pot but whose odds are somewhere between slim and none of joining the B1G would be Florida, Texas, Texas A&M, and a good deal of the original Pac 10 (the latter of which who would be too far away geographically to realistically join the conference anyways).

The following would be your AAU expansion options. None of them would be considered a home run, and all are debatable as to whether they would actually bring in enough money to financially make sense as an expansion partner:

Colorado - The state school that touches a state in the B1G (Nebraska), but would they add enough money to make themselves an option? Even if they did, could you get past the Pac 12's Grant of Rights (GOR)?
Duke - Only an option if UNC says no, and even then, could they carry the whole state by themself like UNC would?
Missouri - From what I've heard, the BTN is on in part of Missouri (because of U of Illinois). With that in mind, would they add enough to the pot to consider making financial sense?
Vanderbilt - 2nd fiddle in their state, but an interesting option in a B1G-free state in an area of the country that the conference is looking to expand. Could Vandy add enough to the collective pot to be a serious/realistic expansion option?

Note: Syracuse is no longer an AAU school, after voluntarily removing themselves from the AAU in 2011 instead of being put to a vote (ala Nebraska).

Also Note: Boston College is not an AAU school and never has been. Boston University, however, is. And no, they are not the same school.


In conclusion, this all leads me to believe one of two things: 1) The B1G is looking to add only 2 more schools (to get to 16 total) and that list includes only 3 schools: UVA, UNC, & GT.

OR

2) The B1G is looking to add all 3 of UVA, UNC, & GT, and is willing to wait it out at 17 schools (like when the B1G did when they stayed at 11 schools for a decade and a half) until "something happens" that changes the game... whether that be a conference dies (ACC, Big XII, etc), an AAU school suddenly has a change of heart about their conference (like Texas A&M), Notre Dame goes against all that it considers holy and joins the B1G, the AAU gives its accreditation to a school that would be a great addition to the conference that is not currently on the list of AAU schools, or Delaney and B1G presidents *miraculously* decide to go against all it supposedly considers holy and decides to add a non-AAU school not named Notre Dame.

If I were a betting man, Delaney's course of action is option #1. In my opinion, count on the B1G trying to add two of UVA, UNC, and GT with the thought in mind that may not add any more schools to the conference.

Good analysis. Adding UVA and UNC would be the start. Once the Maryland exit fee situation is resolved, they would be the two next logical schools. The big question is do they stay at 16 or go to 18. If they want 18, then GT would be #17. I think the only non-AAU school they would add would be ND.

Here is my list of possible and not so possible AAU Schools in no particular order.
Florida: Not likely to leave the SEC
Georgia Tech: Would be the best fit to bring in the Georgia market and expand south.
Iowa State: Brings nothing to the table.
Kansas: Not big enough brand as Nebraska was to bring in a small population state.
Missouri: Wanted in before and B1G said no thanks
Stoney Brook: Who are they?
Texas: Would add lots, including a lot the B1G does not want.
Texas A&M: Are happy in the SEC
Duke: Great for basketball, but market would be covered by UNC
Rice, Tulane: Not big enough.
Arizona, USC, Stanford, Oregon, Washington, University of California (name city here): Too far away
Vanderbilt: Would be great for academic side but would not bring enough of the Tennessee market
University of Toronto: My personal dark horse school. Would bring in a huge untapped Canadian TV market and they have a football team. Highly unlikely.
 
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All I know is, just watching "The Journey" on BTN Saturday, and there's no way they can keep that thing 30 minutes. Too many stories.

I can't even imagine what they'd try to do with football with 85 scholarship players (and the stories of 85 scholarship players).

Let's say you add six schools to 18, that show would have to be twice a week for 30 minutes or one 60 minute show.

I'm sure Jim Delany is factoring in "The Journey" when expanding :wink: And on that TV note, FOX is going to back up the brinks truck to take the Big Ten away from ESPN.
 
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VBSJ;2310575; said:
All I know is, just watching "The Journey" on BTN Saturday, and there's no way they can keep that thing 30 minutes. Too many stories.

I can't even imagine what they'd try to do with football with 85 scholarship players (and the stories of 85 scholarship players).

Let's say you add six schools to 18, that show would have to be twice a week for 30 minutes or one 60 minute show.

I'm sure Jim Delany is factoring in "The Journey" when expanding :wink: And on that TV note, FOX is going to back up the brinks truck to take the Big Ten away from ESPN.

They need to use the footage for an NFL Films-style year-in-review for each team. I'd buy the [Mark May] out of a Blu-ray of that.
 
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LovelandBuckeye;2310534; said:
You know, why not Cincinnati? I mean, that would definitely get the west side Cincinnati market left over after all the "Catholics" root for ND. :wink2:

You will never convince Connecticut fans, students, alumni that they aren't the 15th school added to the Big Ten.

The only reason they were kept out before Rutgers is because the school is postseason banned for men's basketbal and the Big Ten didn't want that bad publicity (according to UConn fans).

The fact UConn is never mentioned in the expansion process is because the Big Ten wants to keep it quiet (according to UConn fans).
 
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VBSJ;2310611; said:
You will never convince Connecticut fans, students, alumni that they aren't the 15th school added to the Big Ten.

The only reason they were kept out before Rutgers is because the school is postseason banned for men's basketbal and the Big Ten didn't want that bad publicity (according to UConn fans).

The fact UConn is never mentioned in the expansion process is because the Big Ten wants to keep it quiet (according to UConn fans).

Link?
 
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VBSJ;2310611; said:
You will never convince Connecticut fans, students, alumni that they aren't the 15th school added to the Big Ten.

The only reason they were kept out before Rutgers is because the school is postseason banned for men's basketbal and the Big Ten didn't want that bad publicity (according to UConn fans).

The fact UConn is never mentioned in the expansion process is because the Big Ten wants to keep it quiet (according to UConn fans).

Yes, the next two in are assuredly unconn and Miami fl. Keep it quiet until the smoke blows over.

In other news, the US is in a secret alliance with Iran. You know, until the smoke blows over in the Middle East, at which point it will be made known.
 
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