Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[Woody1968]

The Big East lost Pitt and Cuse, neither is a football powerhouse. Adding TCU, Baylor and Tech are equal to or better than what the Big East lost. Now in Basketball, the Big East loss a lot but would gains Kansas. So in football a net gain and in basketball a small loss.

Historically, Pitt and Syracuse are vastly superior to the three schools you just mentioned.

 

[knapplc]

Source: Removal of Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe among OU's demands
A high-ranking source told The Oklahoman on Tuesday that OU wants hard and fast rules for Texas and the removal of Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe in order for the Sooners to stay in the conference


The University of Oklahoma is considering remaining in the Big 12, but only in a ?reformed? version of the conference that includes hard and fast rules for Texas' Longhorn Network and removal of Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe, a high-ranking Big 12 source told The Oklahoman on Tuesday.

OU president David Boren said Monday the Sooners would decide soon between applying for Pac-12 membership or staying in the Big 12, and the source outlined the parameters for remaining in the Big 12.

?It's going to take major, major reforms? for OU, and thus Oklahoma State, to consider remaining in the Big 12, the source said. ?We'd have to have an interim commissioner.?

The source said the league presidents do not believe Beebe responded with adequate leadership to Nebraska's and Texas A&M's frustration. The Big 12 has lost three members in the last 15 months, and ?the relationships were so bad (with) the commissioner,? the source said.

The other reform the Sooners demand is Texas and ESPN retreating on some its plans for the Longhorn Network. The UT/ESPN partnership angered Big 12 members on two counts: 1) the network reached an agreement with Fox Sports to move a conference game to the Longhorn Network; and 2) The Longhorn Network announced it would show high school highlights even after the conference voted to keep televised high school games off school-branded networks.

The source said it is not inevitable that OU and OSU will go to the Pac-12, even though the OU regents support the move.

Wow. Where was this 18 months ago?

For the record, I could not be happier in the Big Ten. It is an absolute home run for Nebraska. But this kind of sentiment needed to be expressed a LONG time ago. This is way too little, way too late.


Also, note that the article ties Oklahoma and OK Lite at the hip - "...going to take major, major reforms for OU, and thus Oklahoma State..."

That is not a good thing for OU, which is a far better brand without OK Lite. You can pretty much kiss Big Ten membership goodbye with that requirement.... not that it was very likely, anyway.

 

[muffler dragon]

Let's not forget another component that may hold up Stoops' Sooners going to the Pac-12.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6109013

Oklahomans are livid and Oregonians are trying to savor their victory.
Last weekend, the University of Oregon beat the University of Oklahoma 34-33, after a last minute Oregon comeback was made possible by a major officiating mistake. The Pacific Ten Conference has apologized to Oklahoma.
NPR's Tom Goldman reports on college football's first major controversy of the season.
TOM GOLDMAN: Time heals all wounds. How much time? In Norman, Oklahoma it appears they need more.
Mr. JASON GERACE (Graduate Student, University of Oklahoma): You know, I think we're kind of, as a group of fans, I think really still in shock.
GOLDMAN: Last night, 29-year-old Oklahoma graduate student Jason Gerace took a few minutes to describe the sour mood in what OU football fans lovingly call Sooner Nation.
Mr. GERACE: You know, if you get beaten, we can handle that. But to be cheated, to have it stolen from you, you kind of don't even know what to do with that. It just feels unacceptable. It just feels unfair.
GOLDMAN: For those who missed what happened Saturday, here's the instant replay. Oops, bad choice of words. Here's a recap of what happened.
With about a minute left, the Oklahoma Sooners led the Oregon Ducks 33-27. Oregon attempted an onside kick. That's where the team kicking off kicks the ball short and then tries to recover it. After a wild scramble, the Ducks were given the ball. But Oregon violated a rule and Oklahoma should have gotten the ball.
TV replays clearly showed the violation. After reviewing the play on instant replay however, officials still gave possession to Oregon. The Ducks scored a touchdown and won.
Instant replay was instituted a few years ago in college football as a way to correct blown calls. Yesterday, Pac-10 Associate Commissioner Jim Muldoon admitted the process failed in Saturday's game.
Mr. JIM MULDOON (Associate Commissioner, Pac-10 Conference): It was human error. I think our replay officials just got the thing wrong.
GOLDMAN: It's been reported the replay officials didn't have the same camera angles the national TV audience had. Muldoon says that's true, but he says the officials had ample video to make the right call.
The Pac-10 suspended the entire officiating crew for one game. The main replay official, who lives in Oregon and could not be reached for comment, says he's gotten death threats and is uncertain whether he wants to continue officiating.
The Pac-10 has a policy of only using its officials at home games against opponents from other conferences. The policy now has prompted questions about favoritism by Pac-10 officials on Saturday.
Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops said yesterday he may not bring his team out West to play Pac-10 teams unless the policy changes. Jim Muldoon says Pac-10 athletic directors will study the issue, although he defends, in his words, the integrity of all Pac-10 officials.
cont.

 

[broken24]

Historically, Pitt and Syracuse are vastly superior to the three schools you just mentioned.

Historically: maybe. Recent past (last 30-40 years): No

Pitt 1 10 win season since 1981.

Cuse had a good run in the late 80's and early 90's but since not very good.

 

[Woody1968]

Historically: maybe. Recent past (last 30-40 years): No

Pitt 1 10 win season since 1981.

Cuse had a good run in the late 80's and early 90's but since not very good.

I seem to remeber Syracuse was pretty good with Donovan McNabb, which was after the early 1990s. Pitt won a NC in 1976.

FYI all time records:

Syracuse 686-485-49
Pittsburgh 671-485-41

Texas Tech 519-398-32
TCU 580-514-57
Baylor 532-538-43

Of those, only Texas Tech looks respectable, although, to be fair, most of those wins came in the old Border Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, against powerhouses Like Texas Mines (as UTEP was called), Hardin-Simmons, Arizona Teachers Flagstaff (Northern Arizona), and West Texas Teachers (West Texas A&M).

 

[broken24]

I seem to remeber Syracuse was pretty good with Donovan McNabb, which was after the early 1990s. Pitt won a NC in 1976.

Cuse was 8-4, 9-4 McNabbs last 2 years. TCU claims 2 NC.

FYI all time records:

Syracuse 686-485-49
Pittsburgh 671-485-41

Texas Tech 519-398-32
TCU 580-514-57
Baylor 532-538-43

Of those, only Texas Tech looks respectable, although, to be fair, most of those wins came in the old Border Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, against powerhouses Like Texas Mines (as UTEP was called), Hardin-Simmons, Arizona Teachers Flagstaff (Northern Arizona), and West Texas Teachers (West Texas A&M).

The reason for the maybe was; How do you define historically? All-time, Modern era (What ever that might be? 1950+) or last 40 years etc.

 

[knapplc]

How do you define historically? All-time, Modern era (What ever that might be? 1950+) or last 40 years etc.

If you're Michigan, you define it as anything that happened more than 2,853 days ago.

 

[Jake]

Someday, these "super conferences" will come apart at the seams after attendance suffers due to travel, rivalries fade, and shares per school turn out to be less than they are now.

At that point, "what the fuck were we thinking?" will be the order of the day.

 

[Woody1968]

Cuse was 8-4, 9-4 McNabbs last 2 years. TCU claims 2 NC.



The reason for the maybe was; How do you define historically? All-time, Modern era (What ever that might be? 1950+) or last 40 years etc.

I bring up Pitt's 1976 NC because you said they have not been good for 30-40 years.

Historically to me means All-Time.

Give me Pitt and Syracuse over the dregs of the SWC any day of the week.

 

[BB73]

So Navy was just about to join the Big East for football only, and perhaps Air Force as well, but the defections of Pitt and Syracuse have apparently put the kibosh on that.

CBS

Navy nearly to Big East before Pitt, SU exited

Before the sudden news broke last weekend that Pittsburgh and Syracuse were leaving for the Atlantic Coast Conference, the Big East was in the final stages of acquiring Navy as a football-only member.

No official invitation was extended by the league, but both parties had extensive discussions about Navy joining the league in football only and it very well could have happened in the next couple of weeks, college football industry sources told CBSSports.com.

Besides Navy, the Big East also was targeting Air Force and league sources felt confident both schools would have been Big East members, perhaps within the next year ? that is until Pitt and Syracuse announced they were leaving for the ACC.


?Navy is one of the most special things out there, prestige,? said an administrator who would benefit from Navy being in a BCS league.

?I don't see why Air Force doesn?t fit in a BCS league,? said the same person. ?Class, class, class.?


However, with the Big East?s future now in limbo, it?s uncertain if Navy and/or Air Force will remain interested in joining either a Big East without Pitt and Syracuse or a merger of leftover teams from the Big East and Big 12 conferences. That is, in fact, if the Big 12 loses Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Texas Tech to the Pac-12.


Navy is one of four independents with Army, Notre Dame and BYU, but doesn?t enjoy the automatic qualifying BCS access that Notre Dame does. Navy is in solid shape now with its own television deal, but with the division growing by the second between the automatic qualifying BCS leagues and non-AQ BCS leagues, Navy might feel it has better long-term security in an AQ BCS league.


?There were discussions and dialogues on a number of issues,? said an individual with knowledge of the talks between Navy and the Big East. ?The question now is: what is the Big East going to look like in the future? How do they right the ship? I don?t think they even know that.?

Meanwhile, Tuesday night in New York, the league?s presidents and athletic directors from Cincinnati, UConn, Louisville, Rutgers, South Florida and West Virginia will meet with Big East commissioner John Marinatto to discuss the league?s future.

Cont'd ...

 

[broken24]

I bring up Pitt's 1976 NC because you said they have not been good for 30-40 years.

That is not what I said. What I said was:

Historically: maybe. Recent past (last 30-40 years): No

Pitt 1 10 win season since 1981.

Cuse had a good run in the late 80's and early 90's but since not very good.

I was responding to what you had said:

Historically, Pitt and Syracuse are vastly superior to the three schools you just mentioned.

So what I said was: Historically, Pitt and Syracuse might be vastly superior, but recently (past 30 to 40 years) they are not vastly superior.

 

[knapplc]

Someday, these "super conferences" will come apart at the seams after attendance suffers due to travel, rivalries fade, and shares per school turn out to be less than they are now.

At that point, "what the fuck were we thinking?" will be the order of the day.

It may come to "what the F were we thinking" at some point, but it won't be because of travel. If teams like SMU, Houston and Marshall from C-USA can find money in their budgets to travel their Olympic teams to places like UTEP and UCF, then the major colleges that would survive to make the 16-team Super Conferences could figure it out.

 

[Woody1968]

That is not what I said. What I said was:

I was responding to what you had said:



So what I said was: Historically, Pitt and Syracuse might be vastly superior, but recently (past 30 to 40 years) they are not vastly superior.

If you said "past 10 years," you might have an argument. TCU had a losing record all time before Gary Patterson took over. Texas Tech and Baylor were in the Big XII south basement before the early 2000 in TxTech's case, and well, always in Baylor's case. and they were in the SWC basement before that. While there is no doubt that they have been more successful recently, they have done nothing to show me that they deserve to waltz into a conference and be able to replace two historically competative teams.

How do you think they will even be able to maintain relevance? How many Texas kids are going to sign up to play in the Big East, if they have better options closer to home, like A&M, Missouri, LSU, etc?

 

[ScriptOhio]

http://dennis-dodd.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/32117287

MWC and CUSA considering merge to make "Super-Duper Conference"

I wouldn't call it a Super-Duper Conference, it's more like a NEWU Conference, (i.e. Nobody Else Wants Us Conference).

 

[Muck]

If the semi-finals occurred as the 12th game of the season, then there would be nothing that the NCAA could do about it, under current rules.

No one is going to limit twelve teams (assuming a 16 team conference) to eleven games so that only four can play a twelfth game (unless you are proposing a slate of six meaningless consolation games for the rest of the conference teams).

"Navy used to be one of the most special things out there, now they're pushing through unfit candidates in an attempt stay competitive," said an administrator who would benefit from Navy being in a BCS league.

"I don't see why Air Force doesn't fit in a BCS league," said the same person. "Rape, rape, rape."

Just thought I'd fix that for the administrator. :)

If you said "past 10 years," you might have an argument. TCU had a losing record all time before Gary Patterson took over. Texas Tech and Baylor were in the Big XII south basement before the early 2000 in TxTech's case, and well, always in Baylor's case. and they were in the SWC basement before that. While there is no doubt that they have been more successful recently, they have done nothing to show me that they deserve to waltz into a conference and be able to replace two historically competative teams.

Just think, if this discussion were happening in 2003 people would be talking about how Kansas St is now a powerhouse & should be picked ahead of various 'historical' programs.