Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[DallasHusker]

Well, I guess that it all depends on which Nebraska we're getting.... Is it the one that dominated college football from 1993 - 2001, with a record of 102-12 (.895 winning pct), with five conference championships and three NC's ... or is it the one that was a Big XII also-ran from 2002 to 2009, with a record of 63-40 (.612 winning pect), zero conference championships, and couldn't beat the conference elite (0-5 vs Texas, 1-4 vs Oklahoma, 0-4 vs Texas Tech, not to mention epic beatdowns from Mizzou and Kansas in 2007).

Well, I guess that it all depends on which Ohio State we're getting. Is it the one that (kinda-sorta, except BCS bowls) dominated college football during the late 2000's, or is it the one that was a Big Ten also-ran from 1987-1994, with a record of 60-36-3 (.606 winning pct), one conference championships, etc etc etc.

Just sayin'...

Ohio State absolutely deserves the longstanding reputation as one of the top 5 elite college football programs. So does Nebraska.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Well, I guess that it all depends on which Ohio State we're getting. Is it the one that (kinda-sorta, except BCS bowls) dominated college football during the late 2000's, or is it the one that was a Big Ten also-ran from 1987-1994, with a record of 60-36-3 (.606 winning pct), one conference championships, etc etc etc.

Just sayin'...

Ohio State absolutely deserves the longstanding reputation as one of the top 5 elite college football programs. So does Nebraska.

while an interesting point.

however, the "timeframing" of the situations make it well an interesting comparison.

both are two all time great programs.

one is playing at an elite level, and has sustained that for awhile (either since 95 with two three or so bumpy years in there, or since 02 with one of year).
one is clawing itself back to be a player in the conference championship, with a young coach who knows his football and has shown hes a ball coach.


what this may look like in five years is well, hard to say...

 

[LordJeffBuck]

while an interesting point.

however, the "timeframing" of the situations make it well an interesting comparison.

both are two all time great programs.

one is playing at an elite level, and has sustained that for awhile (either since 95 with two three or so bumpy years in there, or since 02 with one of year).
one is clawing itself back to be a player in the conference championship, with a young coach who knows his football and has shown hes a ball coach.


what this may look like in five years is well, hard to say...

To continue the argument....

Notre Dame is an all time great program that stopped being relevant c. 1994.
Nebraska is an all time great program that stopped being relevant c. 2002.
Ohio State is an all time great program that is still relevant.

Many people on BP (myself included) would argue that Notre Dame will never be relevant again for various reasons. It remains to be seen whether Nebraska will be relevant again. A 10-4 season in 2009 might have been a good start on the road back, but the Huskers still had a very bad loss to Texas Tech (with the Raiders solidifying their place as the #3 program in the Big XII behind Oklahoma and Texas), an anemic offense, and a defense that was borderline great but that loses the most dominating player in college football.

Look, I hope that Nebraska returns to glory - the Big Ten certainly doesn't need another Iowa or Wisconsin (i.e., teams that compete for a conference title once every decade or so). I'm just saying that I'm sceptical right now....

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

To continue the argument....

Notre Dame is an all time great program that stopped being relevant c. 1994.
Nebraska is an all time great program that stopped being relevant c. 2002.
Ohio State is an all time great program that is still relevant.

We were irrelevant from '87-'92 (six seasons) and '99-'01 (three seasons). Actually, you could say we were irrelevant from '80-'92 (minimum 3 losses every season and ranked in top 10 only twice in those 13 seasons).

Under Pelini, Nebraska is close to being back to true "relevant" status. I'll go out on a limb and say that in 3-5 years, the conference will be the "Big Two and Little Ten", with Ohio State and Nebraska as the "Big Two".

 

[SloopyHangOn]

Hmm, you sure sounded like you were scolding

Sorry, was a misunderstanding.

I wasn't looking to pick a fight.

 

[SloopyHangOn]

To continue the argument....

Notre Dame is an all time great program that stopped being relevant c. 1994.
Nebraska is an all time great program that stopped being relevant c. 2002.
Ohio State is an all time great program that is still relevant.

I think there's a huge difference in the way Notre Dame and Nebraska have settled into the crowd over the last decade and a half. Notre Dame's story is comically tragic, with more bad politicking going on than truly bad football. Nebraska has simply been stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to public perception. I, myself, have never seen Nebraska as being an irrelevant program.

...but the Huskers still had a very bad loss to Texas Tech (with the Raiders solidifying their place as the #3 program in the Big XII behind Oklahoma and Texas), an anemic offense, and a defense that was borderline great but that loses the most dominating player in college football.

I don't know about Tech being the #3 program in the Big XII, but I suppose that depends on the time-frame we're talking about. I'd put OK State there before I'd put Tech, but behind Oklahoma and Texas the Cowboys, Huskers, Raiders, Tigers and Wildcats are all 2nd tier in my book.

Look, I hope that Nebraska returns to glory - the Big Ten certainly doesn't need another Iowa or Wisconsin (i.e., teams that compete for a conference title once every decade or so). I'm just saying that I'm sceptical right now....

I'd say I'm less skeptical than I am anticipatory. Nebraska's move to the BigTen will do a lot to free them from the stigma they've had to endure being in the BigXII north in the era of Sooner/Longhorn. Bo Pelini is certainly capable of restoring Nebraska to glory, I just don't think they're quite there yet.

 

[DallasHusker]

To continue the argument....

Notre Dame is an all time great program that stopped being relevant c. 1994.
Nebraska is an all time great program that stopped being relevant c. 2002.
Ohio State is an all time great program that is still relevant.

We were irrelevant from '87-'92 (six seasons) and '99-'01 (three seasons). Actually, you could say we were irrelevant from '80-'92 (minimum 3 losses every season and ranked in top 10 only twice in those 13 seasons).

Thanks, Mililani, for emphasizing the point I tried to make earlier. LJB, let me fix yours for you:

Notre Dame is an all time great program that stopped being relevant c. 1994.
Nebraska is an all time great program that stopped being relevant c. 2002.
Ohio State is an all time great program that is once again relevant, after a period of irrelevancy at least as long as Nebraska's.
​

 

[Mrstickball]

Thanks, Mililani, for emphasizing the point I tried to make earlier. LJB, let me fix yours for you:

Notre Dame is an all time great program that stopped being relevant c. 1994.
Nebraska is an all time great program that stopped being relevant c. 2002.
Ohio State is an all time great program that is once again relevant, after a period of irrelevancy at least as long as Nebraska's.
​

Yes, but the real question is if Nebraska does come back to full relevancy like Ohio State did.

A truly elite program can and does bounce back from having poor runs.

Oklahoma bounced back after a bad 90's. The same goes for USC. Notre Dame obviously hasn't.

And so on.

Nebraska certainly has the pedigree and the coach to come back to the super-elite status. However, its never, ever guaranteed, as we've seen with Notre Dame. This could be the start of their return to dominance, or it could be 2003 all over again, where they go 5-6 the next year. An elite program is only as good as its last year's record...Something we'll probably realize next year with USC :-p

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Yes, but the real question is if Nebraska does come back to full relevancy like Ohio State did.

That is a legitimate point, particularly when viewed in the context of Nebraska's recruiting practices (prop 48s, JUCOs, partial qualifiers and an alleged shady use of "county scholarships" for walk-ons) during their glory years. Throw in Osborn's blind eye to off field issues (and it was a lot more than just Phillips) during the mid 90s run, and one does have a legitimate argument that a return to glory in the Big Ten is not a foregone conclusion.

The key in my mind is whether Nebraska will be able to lure out of state skill players (read: urban and African-American) to Lincoln, Nebraska under Big Ten recruiting and eligibility standards.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

We were irrelevant from '87-'92 (six seasons) and '99-'01 (three seasons). Actually, you could say we were irrelevant from '80-'92 (minimum 3 losses every season and ranked in top 10 only twice in those 13 seasons).

Under Pelini, Nebraska is close to being back to true "relevant" status. I'll go out on a limb and say that in 3-5 years, the conference will be the "Big Two and Little Ten", with Ohio State and Nebraska as the "Big Two".

maybe there is a difference between having two (or three) down years every dozen or so years and making it half a decade (or more) without fielding a conference championship caliber team. bot of those osu time-frames correspond with coaching changes, and whatver you say about cooper (or tressel) they won a lot of games, and they did not lose many.

like i said it is all about time framing.

as someone who has been in lincoln on a fall saturday, im pumped to have them in the conference. their concept of a clear, crisp october is like somones in iowa city, columbus, or state college. and for that i am so happy to have them in the conference. toss in some good pheasant/jgrouse hunting, and well i may make it a trip sooner rather than later... (or mule deer maybe?)

all that being said comparing ohio state to nebraska over the past eight seasons is a stretch, then again as ive said before, the husker fielding conference championship caliber teams is not a far stretch. (then again the argument of the strength of the big 8 during the 90s could be questioned.)

put bluntly, if we get an iowa or wisconsin caliber football program over the next decade, ill be happy with the move. anything more is gravy. i agree with the move. and to expect iowa caliber would be a likely baseline imo. so much of the other talk is like pissing into the wind...

im more interested in who the other potential 2 teams might be...

 

[Wingate1217]

I look at it as Nebbie and OSU are two sides of the same coin. Case in point both schools struggled once their legendary coach retired. (OSU in the case of Woody and Nebraska with Tom O.)

After both coaches left both programs toyed with staying at the elite level (OSU with Bruce and the 1980 Rose Bowl and Nebraska with Solich with the 2000 (?) BCS championship game). Both firings of the legends successors was controversial and unleashed an experiment at both schools as they went outside to fill the coaching vacuum. The abortion that was Bill Callahan and John Cooper here, (although Cooper should be commended for bringing the talent level back where it belonged).
Enter now the saviors of both schools with actual ties their employment schools. Tressel an assistant under Earle in the '80's and Bo the defensive coordinator under Frank Solich.

Tressel has already proved that he has brought OSU back to prominence(One BCS title, multiple BCS and NC game appearances and a boatload of conference championships). Only time will tell if former Buckeyes player Pelini can bring Nebbie back to the threshold of greatness, however my money is on Bo.
Both

 

[Buckeye86]

Both firings of the legends successors was controversial and unleashed an experiment at both schools as they went outside to fill the coaching vacuum. The abortion that was Bill Callahan and John Cooper here, (although Cooper should be commended for bringing the talent level back where it belonged).

Michigan is going through the same thing: Schembechler (legend) > Moeller/Carr (replacement) > Rodriguez (experiment) only their implosion has been infinitely more hilarious

 

[Muck]

I don't know about Tech being the #3 program in the Big XII, but I suppose that depends on the time-frame we're talking about. I'd put OK State there before I'd put Tech, but behind Oklahoma and Texas the Cowboys, Huskers, Raiders, Tigers and Wildcats are all 2nd tier in my book.

Big 12 conference records (Since 1996):

Texas 0.778 117 91 26
Oklahoma 0.723 119 86 33
Nebraska 0.658 117 77 40
Texas Tech 0.589 112 66 46
Kansas State 0.583 115 67 48
Texas A&M 0.518 114 59 55
Colorado 0.509 116 59 57
Missouri 0.456 114 52 62
Oklahoma St. 0.438 112 49 63
Kansas 0.312 112 35 77
Iowa State 0.277 112 31 81
Baylor 0.125 112 14 98

 

[SloopyHangOn]

Big 12 conference records (Since 1996):

Texas 0.778 117 91 26
Oklahoma 0.723 119 86 33
Nebraska 0.658 117 77 40
Texas Tech 0.589 112 66 46
Kansas State 0.583 115 67 48
Texas A&M 0.518 114 59 55
Colorado 0.509 116 59 57
Missouri 0.456 114 52 62
Oklahoma St. 0.438 112 49 63
Kansas 0.312 112 35 77
Iowa State 0.277 112 31 81
Baylor 0.125 112 14 98

I said that I would put OSU at #3 before I would put TTU there, not that I believed that either of them really were the #3 program. Depending on your time frame, that goes to Nebraska or K-State.

 

[jlb1705]

Michigan is going through the same thing: Schembechler (legend) > Moeller/Carr (replacement) > Rodriguez (experiment) only their implosion has been infinitely more hilarious

I don't think M*ch*g*n is going through the same progression - or at least not quite as you describe it. Carr won 1/2 of a national title more then Schembechler did.