Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[jimotis4heisman]

Hmm, as one of the Husker newcomers, I don't want to be disrespectful, but I think you go just a little overboard there. I think Wisconsin, Iowa and Nebraska (which of course isn't playing a Big Ten schedule this year) are preseason top 20 picks at minimum. I've seen at least one projection of Ohio State vs. Nebraska in the BCS Championship game this year (which I think would be awesome!) So while I wouldn't argue at all that Ohio State is A Big Dog for the foreseeable future, I'd argue pretty vehemently that they're not THE Big Dog for the foreseeable future - unless you can't see very far.

im pretty sure he meant within some distance of a historical context. if you stack ohio state up in the 90s, 00s they are amongst the national elite in both time frames. and when you combine the last 20 years they stay there, one of the few schools that can be said for.

it is pretty hard to debate that there has not been much consistent depth in the big ten over the last 8 or so years. what the future holds, who knows... id bet the husker have success coming in. while it be sustained, or will they mirror the likes of a penn state, hard to say...

 

[cincibuck]

Please don't ever chant "BIG TEN"

The "SEC" chant is probably the most pathetic thing in college football. Are SEC fans really that insecure and/or outright dumb? Alabama and Florida were good this year. The rest of the conference was either mediocre or downright sucked b@lls. If you're an Alabama fan about to win your first NC since 1992, why on earth would you want to remind the nation that South Carolina got punked by UConn? Be thankful you only gave up 2 td's to Colt McCoy's freshman backup.

I've been following college football since the mid-80's and up until a few years ago, I don't ever recall the whole "our conference is better than you're conference" stupidity being an overwhelming theme of college football. And now, thanks to SEC fans and ESPN, it's all we hear anymore.

Where was the "SEC" chant when ESPN was claiming the '02 Hurricanes were the greatest college team of all-time? Where was the "SEC" chant when ESPN was claiming the '05 Trojans were the greatest college team of all-time? Please, SEC fans - shelve the dumb chant and recognize that in the past few years you've had INDIVIDUAL TEAMS that have been very good (just like every other damn conference). It's got nothing to do with the "SEC". Your sucky teams still suck.

When Florida St. won the BCS NC, no one chanted "ACC"
When Oklahoma won the BCS NC, no one chanted "Big 12"
When Miami won the BCS NC, no one chanted "Big East"
When Ohio St. won the BCS NC, no one chanted "Big 10"
When USC won the BCS NC, no one chanted "Pac 10"
When Texas won the BCS NC, no one chanted "Big 12"

So please, just stop. It's lame, it's annoying, and it's desperate. Florida & Alabama aren't good because of the "SEC". They're good because they are INDIVIDUALLY good programs. Every conference has individual programs that are good and every conference has individual programs that are not good.​

Last edited by Don Unverferth; 01-08-2010 at 09:59 PM.

Entire article: Please don't ever chant "BIG TEN"

Anyone think that is actually the "real" Don Unverferth?

​

1. The "real" Don Unverferth, former Buckeye QB 63 - 65 seasons, and the doctor for whom University Hospital's heart transplant unit is named, died of brain cancer some years back.

2. At the 2000 NCAA track and field championships the NC came down to the 1600 M relay. A Stanford distance runner stepped in to run a leg for the Cardinal who needed to win to beat Tennessee. When the Vols took an early lead all of the SEC athletes and fans began to Chant SEC, SEC, SEC. When Stanford blew them away on the last two legs all of the Pac 10 athletes returned the favor. Quite a meet, quite a race and a wonderful FU.

 

[cincibuck]

My comment relates to the fan base rather than the university administrations. I agree - both OSU and UM have been very supportive of all their brother institutions in the Big Ten and the CIC. That support from the leading football schools (and therefore "flagship" schools) in the conference is perhaps the largest reason that the Big Ten is the most stable conference in college football.

With that said, as fanbases, Buckeye and Wolverine fans are as arrogant or demanding of special considerations as any in the land. With justification, of course. :tongue2:

When I see BCS/NC game in Chicago I'll agree. If anything OSU and Michigan should have been pushing for this long ago.

 

[cincibuck]

Well, I for one would have loved to have had them in the Big 10. I know we are Newbies and you guys are sick of their antics, but I think they are the perfect fit by culture and geographics. Could have been a sweet conference had you added them and Rutgers.

ND wanted in, asked to be in, in the 20s, but Michigan -- here we go again -- fought to keep them out.

I know Bo was on record as wanting nothing to do with them, "They need us more than we need them," he said repeatedly. But he was the HC when the series was re-started and I can't imagine Don Canum telling Bo who he had to play and living to talk about it.

 

[muffler dragon]

Screw the Domers! May the continue down the path of irrelevance.

 

[Steve19]

Notre Dame's administration and coaching staff probably want to join the Big Ten. The problem is their alumni base, which can't seem to understand that two decades of irrelevance makes you, well, irrelevant.

You don't need to be an insider to realize that Notre Dame is probably going to resist moving to join the Big Ten unless Big Ten teams will no longer play them. Presently, their alumni base believes that the Big Ten needs Notre Dame and, after all, "Notre Dame play three of the Big Ten's best teams every year" historically.

If Delaney really wants them, then he will be smart to start closing down their "rivalries" with Big Ten teams. That would have two effects. First, it would smack down alumni illusions about Notre Dame's pre-eminence and stop their harping on the University and sports administrators to "toe the independent line". Secondly, it would present the University and sports administrators with a financial rationale to join the Big Ten.

If Delaney and the Big Ten show that they mean business about stopping playing Notre Dame, Notre Dame will fold.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

What I want to happen: Big Ten teams stop playing ND and ND drifts even further into irrelevance.

What I expect to happen: Brian Kelly returns them to contender status, and soon, regardless whether Big Ten teams continue to play them.

It's not what I want, but I think Kelly will make them a thorn-in-the-side recruiting-wise and an absolute handful on the field.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Notre Dame's administration and coaching staff probably want to join the Big Ten. The problem is their alumni base, which can't seem to understand that two decades of irrelevance makes you, well, irrelevant.

You don't need to be an insider to realize that Notre Dame is probably going to resist moving to join the Big Ten unless Big Ten teams will no longer play them. Presently, their alumni base believes that the Big Ten needs Notre Dame and, after all, "Notre Dame play three of the Big Ten's best teams every year" historically.

If Delaney really wants them, then he will be smart to start closing down their "rivalries" with Big Ten teams. That would have two effects. First, it would smack down alumni illusions about Notre Dame's pre-eminence and stop their harping on the University and sports administrators to "toe the independent line". Secondly, it would present the University and sports administrators with a financial rationale to join the Big Ten.

If Delaney and the Big Ten show that they mean business about stopping playing Notre Dame, Notre Dame will fold.

the alum i know very well, who gives at a relatively significant rate is personally against it, along with many of his buddies since it pretty much assures them 3-5 losses every year. hes honest and frank about it, until you put him in a group, or around other domers, in which case the story becomes they are too good for a conference. nearly comical, really....



Nebraska to Big Ten Is a Win-Win - WSJ.com
some more pub for the husker add

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

the alum i know very well, who gives at a relatively significant rate is personally against it, along with many of his buddies since it pretty much assures them 3-5 losses every year. hes honest and frank about it, until you put him in a group, or around other domers, in which case the story becomes they are too good for a conference. nearly comical, really....

Perfect summation of the domer mindset. A former business partner/investor was a prominent alum/donor, and I've seen it up close.

The one thing you left out, is that the revolving door of coaches allows them to do a psychological reset every 5 years. Just as they seem close to resigning themselves to Big Ten membership, the next savior comes in and all of a sudden they're back on top of the world with no need for a conference. It's like some twisted domer version of groundhog day.

 

[Buckeyefrankmp]

You don't need to be an insider to realize that Notre Dame is probably going to resist moving to join the Big Ten unless Big Ten teams will no longer play them. Presently, their alumni base believes that the Big Ten needs Notre Dame and, after all, "Notre Dame play three of the Big Ten's best teams every year" historically.

If Delaney really wants them, then he will be smart to start closing down their "rivalries" with Big Ten teams. That would have two effects. First, it would smack down alumni illusions about Notre Dame's pre-eminence and stop their harping on the University and sports administrators to "toe the independent line". Secondly, it would present the University and sports administrators with a financial rationale to join the Big Ten.

If Delaney and the Big Ten show that they mean business about stopping playing Notre Dame, Notre Dame will fold.

No. Notre Dame will pick up three more high profile games if the Big Ten drops them. I think there are two different perceptions of Notre Dame. The media, Notre Dame alumni and The school itself has a perception that they are relevant and a good football team. This means that any Notre Dame game will be billed and sold as a big game. The other perception is with the other schools. They see that Notre Dame is down and could be an easy win. The game will also be a prime time matchup giving the other team good exposure and a "good" win on their schedule. Does Notre Dame see this in their future? I think they are lining up schools for this possibility. Notre Dame is working on a series with Texas right now.

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/08/notre-dame-close-to-adding-texas-to-schedule.html

 

[TheIronColonel]

And Texas will likely ape rape ND 4 times, thus ending ND's ambitions of attempting to pull off Ohio State-esque big time home-and-home series. I really don't think it's a matter of ND plugging in big-time games to replace Big Ten teams. They need the conference a hell of a lot more than the conference needs them. I'm not even talking about freezing them out to force them to join; I'm talking about just saying "fuck you" and going home to our big ass pile of BTN money.

 

[DallasHusker]

And Texas will likely ape rape ND 4 times, thus ending ND's ambitions of attempting to pull off Ohio State-esque big time home-and-home series. I really don't think it's a matter of ND plugging in big-time games to replace Big Ten teams. They need the conference a hell of a lot more than the conference needs them. I'm not even talking about freezing them out to force them to join; I'm talking about just saying "[censored] you" and going home to our big ass pile of BTN money.

There's not much that will inspire me to root for Texas at this point, except them playing ND.

 

[DallasHusker]

im pretty sure he meant within some distance of a historical context. if you stack ohio state up in the 90s, 00s they are amongst the national elite in both time frames. and when you combine the last 20 years they stay there, one of the few schools that can be said for.

it is pretty hard to debate that there has not been much consistent depth in the big ten over the last 8 or so years. what the future holds, who knows... id bet the husker have success coming in. while it be sustained, or will they mirror the likes of a penn state, hard to say...

Yes, I assumed he meant "withing some distance of a historical context" and was talking about "sustained" success. But you and he both need to take off or at least lighten those rose-colored glasses. In particular, your statement:

if you stack ohio state up in the 90s, 00s they are amongst the national elite in both time frames. and when you combine the last 20 years they stay there, one of the few schools that can be said for.
​

"Within some distance of a historical context", over the last 50, 40, 30 and 25 years, Nebraska's win/loss percentage is ahead of OSU's. You're right though - over the last 20 years, OSU pulls ahead of Nebraska - very slightly ahead, one position - with one more win and six less losses. Of course, that includes our Callahan era, the worst 4 years in the modern history of Nebraska football.

Name your time frame or definition of "historical context" and no matter what that is, I reiterate that it points to OSU being (over the long term) A Big Dog but certainly not THE Big Dog in the Big Ten, especially with the addition of Nebraska.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Yes, I assumed he meant "withing some distance of a historical context" and was talking about "sustained" success. But you and he both need to take off or at least lighten those rose-colored glasses. In particular, your statement:

if you stack ohio state up in the 90s, 00s they are amongst the national elite in both time frames. and when you combine the last 20 years they stay there, one of the few schools that can be said for.
​

"Within some distance of a historical context", over the last 50, 40, 30 and 25 years, Nebraska's win/loss percentage is ahead of OSU's. You're right though - over the last 20 years, OSU pulls ahead of Nebraska - very slightly ahead, one position - with one more win and six less losses. Of course, that includes our Callahan era, the worst 4 years in the modern history of Nebraska football.

Name your time frame or definition of "historical context" and no matter what that is, I reiterate that it points to OSU being (over the long term) A Big Dog but certainly not THE Big Dog in the Big Ten, especially with the addition of Nebraska.

no means of disrespect, but i had this conversation with a penn state fan in the early 90s. he then proceeded to shove my comments back into my face in 1995. i casually brought it up about 2005, he conceded. he honestly and frankly told me its not the same playing with the big boys, when your schedule in oct and nov looks like osu, wisc, iowa, um, etc. granted i have no idea how divisional play will impact this, but keep in mind this isnt the iowa st, uc, ksu, kansas, mizzou stretch run... in the big ten september is for pretenders, november is for contenders. and oh i look forward to putting another big time, big name, big history, football loving program into the discussion!

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

when your schedule in oct and nov looks like osu, wisc, iowa, um, etc. granted i have no idea how divisional play will impact this, but keep in mind this isnt the iowa st, uc, ksu, kansas, mizzou stretch run...

when your schedule in oct and nov looks like Indiana, Illinois, NW, Minny, etc. granted i have no idea how divisional play will impact this, but keep in mind this isnt the aTm, OU, CU, TTech, UT stretch run...

goes both ways, imo, but I see your point.