Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[Muck]

Those are overall records,

No. They are not. Unless Chris has the wrong data.

CFB Datawarehouse comes up with the same results.

 

[SloopyHangOn]

No. They are not.

Yea, you're right. The information I looked at was only through 2005.

My bad.

 

[DaveyBoy]

That is a legitimate point, particularly when viewed in the context of Nebraska's recruiting practices (prop 48s, JUCOs, partial qualifiers and an alleged shady use of "county scholarships" for walk-ons) during their glory years. Throw in Osborn's blind eye to off field issues (and it was a lot more than just Phillips) during the mid 90s run, and one does have a legitimate argument that a return to glory in the Big Ten is not a foregone conclusion.

The key in my mind is whether Nebraska will be able to lure out of state skill players (read: urban and African-American) to Lincoln, Nebraska under Big Ten recruiting and eligibility standards.

great points, ORD. I'm surprised Osborne hasn't caught more heat over the apparent lack of standards for the Huskers in the '90s. I've always thought that as great a job as Osborne did over the years, he couldn't get the Huskers over the top.....so during his swan song he let loose and brought in guys like Phillips and some others. Those particular players were the specific reason NU was a notch above anyone they faced for a period of 3 years.

 

[Muck]

Yea, you're right. The information I looked at was only through 2005.

When I was getting the numbers for a Husker site they surprised me a bit as well.

 

[DallasHusker]

That is a legitimate point, particularly when viewed in the context of Nebraska's recruiting practices (prop 48s, JUCOs, partial qualifiers and an alleged shady use of "county scholarships" for walk-ons) during their glory years. Throw in Osborn's blind eye to off field issues (and it was a lot more than just Phillips) during the mid 90s run, and one does have a legitimate argument that a return to glory in the Big Ten is not a foregone conclusion.

The key in my mind is whether Nebraska will be able to lure out of state skill players (read: urban and African-American) to Lincoln, Nebraska under Big Ten recruiting and eligibility standards.

Hmm, first of all - Prop 48 and partial qualifiers are one and the same, not two separate things. Second, Nebraska has never been a big JUCO recruiter, compared to a number of other schools. And the "alleged shady use of "county scholarships" is just that - nothing but sour-grapes accusations from fans of some of the other schools - nothing which there has ever been any proof of. Osborne has admitted that with 20/20 hindsight, he made the wrong decision with Phillips - who obviously has never been anything but a sorry excuse for a human being. But you won't find much more other than the oft-repeated Phillips saga regarding Nebraska during the Osborne years. Nebraska has always had the reputation of running a very clean program - in fact, Nebraska has never ever faced NCAA sanctions of any kind for its football program - something a whole lot of other big time football programs can't say.

As for those partial qualifiers - Nebraska provided them with enough academic support and assistance that most of them graduated with a college degree. In fact, Nebraska has and has always had the highest percentage of graduating football players of any school in the Big 12 - and also has the largest number of Academic All-Americans of any school in the country. The domers of Notre Dame are a distant second to Nebraska in that category.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

We're going to have to disagree, Dallas. I always respected Osborn in the 80s. In the 90s, I--and a lot of people outside the Nebraska borders--saw a good man compromise his principals to get a ring. Again, it wasn't just Phillips. Christian Peter ring a bell? How about Riley Washington?

Sorry, but the Nebraska program of the mid 90s had a lot more in common with Barry Switzer's Oklahoma teams than it did with the Nebraska teams of the 70s and 80s.

CNN/SI - Coach And Jury

It's a pretty interesting article from the time, including a direct quote from Lancaster County Attorney accusing Osborn of interfering in the criminal investigations of his players.

 

[jwinslow]

Let's not go down that road of measuring shady bases

D on outside perception and headlines. Many would make similar comments about senator tressel and some of the character he brought in those first three classes. Would it be overstated? Sure, but still similar to this rabbit trail.

As for nebraska, the competition will pose a challenge (though not like the upgrade psu faced).

I fail to see how big ten standards will affect how they recruit. They aren't prone to oversigning as far as I know. Michigan takes bare minimum qualifiers.

The difference in the big ten schools is on an individual basis. It is a point of pride that the whole league has great academics and none are stooping to the level of sec admissions, but they could do it if they wanted to do so.

 

[matcar]

Let's not go down that road of measuring shady bases on outside perception and headlines. Many would make similar comments about senator tressel and some of the character he brought in those firat three classes. Would it be overstated? Sure, but still similar to this rabbit trail.

As for nebraska, the competition will pose a challenge (though not like the upgrade psu faced).

I fail to see how big ten standards will affect how they recruit. They aren't prone to oversigning as far as I know. Michigan takes bare minimum qualifiers.

The difference in the big ten schools is on an individual basis. It is a point of pride that the whole league has great academics and none are stooping to the level of sec admissions, but they could do it if they wanted to do so.

Agreed completely. Listing some articles about NE troubles could easily be duplicated by folks looking to taint tOSU...and any number of other successful programs. Nebraska was DOMINANT for a portion of the 90s and there's no need to sully it....best to respect it.

Meanwhile, the only concern I have with Nebraska is what others have mentioned before...how will they recruit in this new era where kids can go anywhere and get on TV. tOSU gets it's fair share of recruits out of state, but let's face it, we butter our bread with in state kids. It would seem to be tough for Nebraska to be successful and do the same, meanwhile it always more difficult to reel in the out-of-state kids. One can only hope they find a way.

 

[Buckeye737]

On the Northwestern Rivals board, our buddy Purple Book Cat is back at it.

WildcatReport.com - Message Boards

In a previous post to this, he mentioned that ND & Texas are still the keys to expansion and that Missouri still has an offer contingent on one of those two joining.

 

[DallasHusker]

Let's not go down that road of measuring shady bases

D on outside perception and headlines. Many would make similar comments about senator tressel and some of the character he brought in those first three classes. Would it be overstated? Sure, but still similar to this rabbit trail.

As for nebraska, the competition will pose a challenge (though not like the upgrade psu faced).

I fail to see how big ten standards will affect how they recruit. They aren't prone to oversigning as far as I know. Michigan takes bare minimum qualifiers.

The difference in the big ten schools is on an individual basis. It is a point of pride that the whole league has great academics and none are stooping to the level of sec admissions, but they could do it if they wanted to do so.

Agreed completely. Listing some articles about NE troubles could easily be duplicated by folks looking to taint tOSU...and any number of other successful programs. Nebraska was DOMINANT for a portion of the 90s and there's no need to sully it....best to respect it.

Meanwhile, the only concern I have with Nebraska is what others have mentioned before...how will they recruit in this new era where kids can go anywhere and get on TV. tOSU gets it's fair share of recruits out of state, but let's face it, we butter our bread with in state kids. It would seem to be tough for Nebraska to be successful and do the same, meanwhile it always more difficult to reel in the out-of-state kids. One can only hope they find a way.

Thanks, guys. I thought briefly about dredging up easy-to-find articles about OSU transgressions, but quickly decided not to stoop to that level.

As for recruiting, its definitely a large topic of conversation on Husker boards. Of course, its a problem that Nebraska has always had - the geographical aspect. We'll never pull as many Texas kids as Texas does, or as many California kids as USC/UCLA/etc does, or as many Florida kids as Florida/FSU/Miami does. But we've always managed to do well enough in recruiting those areas, and I think we'll continue to do so. We may suffer a bit in Texas as we won't be playing there anymore, but I imagine our reccruiting activity will pick up in Big Ten territory, particularly Ohio with the Pelini's backgrounds. I guess, as always, time will tell.

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

WildcatReport.com - Message Boards

From B737's link:

One of the reasons the Big Ten is pushing the 9 game schedule right now (in particular, without pushing the 13 game schedule) relates specifically to Notre Dame. The brass still believes that it can pull Notre Dame, and therefore Texas, into the league. Switching to the 9 game schedule, aside from allowing Big Ten schools to play each other more often, serves an alternate purpose - one much more important in the Big Ten's view. Michigan State, Purdue, and Michigan will feel significant pressure to remove Notre Dame from their schedule, or at least limit matchups, in subsequent years.

Well, if the Big Ten is going to freeze out ND, I hope they really freeze out ND. No more OOC games, just leave them twisting in the breeze.

I think that the 'nine conference games' may do just that...

And Jim Delany mentioning the "9 conference games" may be a not so subtle hint to Swarbrick of what awaits ND.

Oh yeah.

 

[TheIronColonel]

Looks like Ol' Jim has got his head on straight!

 

[OSU_D/]

On the Northwestern Rivals board, our buddy Purple Book Cat is back at it.

WildcatReport.com - Message Boards

In a previous post to this, he mentioned that ND & Texas are still the keys to expansion and that Missouri still has an offer contingent on one of those two joining.

I think pulling those two make the Big 10 the undisputed king (no kidding, right?), but looking back I don't ever see it happening.

As some have guessed on this forum one of the many goals the 9 game Big 10 schedule has is freezing ND out of scheduling our teams. However, I think Brian Kelly will produce results and while ND may not be an elite team, he will bring them back enough where they will easily replace losing UM, MSU and Purdue from their schedule. Other teams across the nation will jump at the chance to do series with ND, at least for the first 4-5 years.

If ND does eventually join the Big 10 I still don't think we get Texas. It seems to me in this whole process that Texas wants to go to the Pac 10, but not at the expense of having TAMU and OU go to the SEC. I think, at least in the recent expansion iteration, that Texas was utilizing the Big 10 solely as a bargaining tool when talking to the Pac 10.

I was all about reading Purple Book Cat earlier in the process, but I am less enthused now. The plans he is relaying still seem to be too far-fetched. I will keep reading and hoping, though!

While I want Texas and ND as a combo, I just don't think it will happen. But I hope that Delany keeps in mind something he mentioned early in the process: the Big 10 population footprint is shrinking and this will affect the BTN and recruiting. Decisions on which institutions will join in the future should bear this in mind.

 

[RugbyBuck]

Texas showed the world its true colors (not just vomit orange) this last go around. I really can't imagine us getting into bed with that. ND, on the other hand, and another solid eastern school would be the best scenario from here.

In the meantime, though, freeze them out like they farted at gramma's Easter brunch.

 

[Buckeye86]

ND, on the other hand, and another solid eastern school would be the best scenario from here.

To put it bluntly, fuck the east. I don't see why people are hanging on to that so much. Other than giving Penn State more recruiting access on the coast I don't see how expanding east benefits the conference in any way, especially if Notre Dame is already on board.