Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[ORD_Buckeye]

The losers: Colorado, whom is going to get raped by the Big XII and whom was basically forced out by rumors and threats by the Texas legislature.

I absolutely disagree with your reading of the CU situation. Colorado has dreamed of going to the Pac 10 since the 70s. For a long time, they've viewed themselves as the cultural oddball in a conference of Great Plains schools in the Big 8 and added Texas schools in the Big 12.

I think Colorado lived a charmed life these past two weeks. Texas and the Texas legislature's Baylor gambit forced the Pac 10 to head it off by rushing out the invite that Colorado's been waiting 40 years to get.

Sure, they're going to take a financial hit. If you were a freed slave and were told that you had to spend the first couple years of your freedom paying for it, wouldn't you still be pretty damned happy. Colorado is off Bevo Plantation and couldn't be more thrilled about it.

 

[kn1f3party]

I absolutely disagree with your reading of the CU situation. Colorado has dreamed of going to the Pac 10 since the 70s. For a long time, they've viewed themselves as the cultural oddball in a conference of Great Plains schools in the Big 8 and added Texas schools in the Big 12.

I think Colorado lived a charmed life these past two weeks. Texas and the Texas legislature's Baylor gambit forced the Pac 10 to head it off by rushing out the invite that Colorado's been waiting 40 years to get.

Sure, they're going to take a financial hit. If you were a freed slave and were told that you had to spend the first couple years of your freedom paying for it, wouldn't you still be pretty damned happy. Colorado is off Bevo Plantation and couldn't be more thrilled about it.

From the perspective of now being a part of the Pac-10, I will side with you that it isn't a loss. However, what it will do for them long-term remains to be seen. Yes, they're where they want to be. However, I think they are going to become even more of a doormat there and their athletic department is already struggling. How much more money will they really make in the Pac-10? I think it will take a long time to determine if this was in their best interest. No doubt, leaving the Big XII was.

 

[cincibuck]

I don't think so. I think he had sit back and let things play out in order to let Texas play their hand. I don't think anyone really had a sense for the depth of Texas' Machiavellian manipulations and self-serving b.s. before the last couple of weeks. Now we and everyone else in college football knows. Texas played their hand of tag-along members, Bevovision, 7 game conference schedules and all the rest, and Delany said, "thanks but no thanks; contact us when you're ready to be an equal member of the Big Ten." I don't think he was had at all.

As much as it pains me to say this, the one who looks bad is Gee for having gone off on his own and contacted the UT Prez. Gee comes off as naive and foolish for thinking Texas had a "Tech Problem" when it's clear that Tech, Baylor and rest of the B12 South were not a "problem" from Texas' viewpoint but rather were pawns in UT's end game of maneuvering a hostile takeover of whichever conference they ended up in.

Perhaps I should have said that Delany was taken advantage of -- publicly --by a duplicitous Texas. Gee is too politically savvy to "go off on his own" in my opinion. I'd sooner believe he was asked to speak by Delany. Given what has been revealed about Texas politics and school administrators I'd say we're better off without them.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

My take on winners and losers SO FAR:

Winners:

Agree on Nebraska and the Big Ten being the big winners so far.

The Big East is a winner in the short term, as they get to exist for another week or so. Shoot, they might even get to have a 2011 football season. I have my doubts about the prospects for them being a football conference in 2012 and beyond. This is only a win in the sense that all other possible outcomes for them were/are worse.

AtM is also a winner here, as their flirtation with the SEC gave them bargaining power with the have-nots in the Big 12, getting them a TV share equal (reportedly) to OU's. This is a win in the sense that they are much better off than if they were to bargain based on their actual value as a program. Whether the Pac-16 or SEC options would have been bigger wins is up for conjecture.
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Even:

I would put UT in this category. While they're hegemony in the Big 12 has been solidified, they are now the king of a smaller kingdom; and they are now seen by every conference that matters as not nearly the prize that they appeared to be just a couple of weeks ago. From where I stand, this looks like a short term gain, long term loss for UT. By definition however, the long term is in the future, so their actual long term position is to be determined -- leaving them, for the moment, in the "Even" category.

I agree that the Mountain West is here too. There were other outcomes that would have them better off, like the disintegration of the Big 12 giving them some middling programs to take so as to improve their middling conference. But that is still a distinct possibility for the future. For the present, adding Boise State is an upgrade; so if the expected happens and they lose Utah, they are Even for the time being. They stand to be a winner in the future.

Whether Colorado is better off in the Pac 12? or would have been better off with the better? TV deal in the Big 12 (minus UNL) remains to be seen, and might be completely unknowable. They would have been much better off in the PAC-16, but then they seem to be where they want to be. They have criteria on both side of the ledger, so I'll call this EVEN until more of the cards are played.

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Losers:

I don't see how you can leave the Sooners out of this category. This whole situation displayed to the world just how much everyone wanted their main rival more than they wanted OU; but behaving like UT's lap dog is absolutely disgraceful.

The rest of the Big 12 not yet mentioned are big losers (so far) as well. Yes, some of them could have had worse outcomes (like ending up in the mountain west or out-to-dry); but those outcomes are still on the table. And they have had their inferior position to UT etched in stone and codified in contract. Some of them may be better off in the long run because they will now have time to find better long term positions; but for now, they are sitting there as smaller players in a smaller conference.

This brings me to the Pac 10. The addition of Colorado, who is about to lose scholarships because of abysmal APR numbers, is a short term loss, long term "meh" in my opinion. So they add a new TV market - but how much of that market cares about college sports? And having to add Utah to get to 12, having just come off a week where all of the ESPN talking heads couldn't get over the "brilliance" of adding UT and OU... to say they have egg on their face is an insult to eggs.


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[JCOSU86]

So he basically admits he was being used by the Texas admin... nice...

No doubt. They played this guy like a fiddle.

 

[kn1f3party]

...having to add Utah to get to 12, having just come off a week where all of the ESPN talking heads couldn't get over the "brilliance" of adding UT and OU... to say they have egg on their face is an insult to eggs.

This. Larry Scott went from being the unknown to a rising star, a genius, the next big name in college athletics to "blah" in a week.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Winners
Nebraska--duh

The Big Ten: We add a football home run and a school that is at least adequate by all other criteria. We exposed the cancer that is Texas, are still driving the expansion bus and have up to 4 more golden tickets to hand out.

The Big East: As Daddy said, all the other options were worse. Jim Delany might chip a tooth on his coffee cup this morning and take it out his frustration by destroying the BE, but for now they live another day.

Colorado: Whatever the negative aspects, events outside their control have landed them where they've longed to be for 40 years.

Utah: when the mushroom cloud subsided, the Utes end up in the Pac 10.

A&M: They scared the shit out of big brother with their SEC play, scuttled the Big 16 in the process and ended up getting, if not a UT slice of the pie, at least an OU slice.

KU, KSU, ISU: They're still in a BCS conference which, despite its inequities, is possibly going to give them a little more money than it did previously.

Iowa: Gets a potential rivalry that could potentially be the second best in the conference and have national implications and interest.

EVEN
The Domers: However stupid and short-sighted it might be, they've kept their indy cred, which seems to be the only thing that matters to these morons. Seriously, the domers seem to take an almost maniacal glee in going full retard.

LOSERS:
Texas: Big Loser. I don't care about Bevovision or their new money deal. They are locked into a weaker conference for the next ten years which, despite its uneven money split, will pay out less than the P16 or Big Ten would have. When the next rounds of expansion come, they're toxic to the Pac 10. The Big Ten will do nothing in the future except kick out a single (equal) chair and say, "sit your ass down and keep your mouth shut." The SEC, which is toxic to them from an academic and recruiting standpoint, is also not going to give them any special treatment. Aggy discovered that they have a nuclear option in the form of inviting the SEC into Texas that scares the crap out of big brother. Baylor hates them for how quickly they were abandoned after the Colorado invite. Tech is pissed over not getting any CU/Nebraska money. KSU, ISU, KU, Mizzou all hate them for having been put to the brink of extinction. The only friends that they seem to come out of this with are OU and Okie State.

OU: Hard to pretend that you're a major player when your head is shoved up Bevo's ass.

Missouri: Guess the Big Ten was just not that into you.

MWC: No auto bid for you! Come back ten year. Utah for Boise was a net loss, and they're staring down the idea that the B12 may, at any moment, peel off two of BYU, Air Force and TCU.

 

[Piney]

I agree that Delany wanted Tejas this go-around, but I think that ship has sailed. If they are able to get BevoVision (credit to ORD for that name ) rolling and profitable while playing in the BigXII 2.0, I see them going independant if there's another big shakeup in 5-10 years. I just don't see that leopard changing it's spots - especially once they've got their own network.

Never say never. IF things go silent and the Big Ten announces that they will stay with 12, another expansion study will occur around 2014/2015 before the 2016 TV contracts are up. It is VERY interesting that almost everyone's main TV deals are up that year (Big 10, Big XII & Notre Dame)

That gives Texas some time to start up BevoVision. I just don't see that network being that successful/profitable. While Texas cable companies will get it on basic package, but how much can they really get? $1? HA! $.75? in Texas's dreams $.50? maybe But I can see a real uphill battle to get even that much since there won't be anything that forces the action.

So if Texas only can squeeze $3-$5 million a year, is it worth it? Would that really stop them from moving?

Another thing is maybe the Texas Tech problem solves itself. The Texas legislature is trying to improve Tech's academics. What if they improve in such a way that they can sell themselves as an AAU school in waiting? I know 4-5 years might not be enough time to do that, but what if they get close enough?

Another crazy thought... What if the transition from Mack Brown to Muschamp is a lil rocky and Texas has a few 9-3 seasons?

I know... alot of Ifs, but ya never know what things will look like in 4-5 years.

 

[Cinfali]

I apologize if this is already discussed but what happens to our ABC contract now that we have 12 teams? Will it be renegotiated? If Big XII is really worth $17 million per team, we should get something around $400 million annually from ABC IMO.

 

[cincibuck]

Just some thoughts -- with the exception of West Virginia -- which certainly sees itself as big time football and basketball -- the Big East is primarily a basketball league. Put Notre Dame's feet to the fire and they instantly become a certified Big League in the eyes of a significant TV audience and cut off the Big Ten at the pass - forcing the Big Ten to reinvestigate the Big 8-12-10's north to pick up Mizzou and Kansas. Might be nice to also invite Washington U, especially their Med School, to join the CIC and partner up with Chicago -- which remains an important part of the total Big 10 package.

There's nothing wrong with being a basketball centered conference with medium football interests. What possible inducements does the SEC or the Big 10 have to offer the core ACC schools that aren't outweighed by the detractions? The research triangle, to include Duke and Wake Forest Med, is a huge financial boon to the conference and to the state. UVA and Maryland's ties to DC and the Pentagon and Georgia Tech's research rep-- well let me just say, go spend some time on SEC boards other than Florida, Vandy and Georgia and ask yourself why any ACC school would want to subject itself to that level of thinking.

I think it's well known that the Big 10 would welcome a nod from Notre Dame. The best solution would be simply to use Nebraska as a catalyst to cut off athletic ties with them period -- you're either in or out, it doesn't have to be angry, but what's their NBC contract worth if they have to replace Michigan State, Michigan and Purdue?

 

[Dryden]

Gotta disagree on the winners/losers here. I see everyone rating Texas as either even or losers, and I'd call them big winners.

They got exactly what they wanted out of the deal: more control, more money, and their own TV network.

Their fans, on the other hand, are the real losers. Their only marquee matchup now is with Oklahoma, and that's at JerryWorld. No more road trips to Lincoln and Boulder, no more visits by the Huskers. How would you like it if Ohio State's road schedule was Lubbock, Lawrence, Stillwater & Ames, and your alumni donation just for the privilege of being fleeced on season tickets got you into games against UL-U'Pickem, North Texas, a 1-AA curbstomping, some other Sun Belt foe, then the other half of your conference slate featuring Baylor, Kansas St, and Texas A&M?

Whoopdee-fucking-doo.

What the hell do they need BevoVision for? Baseball? The football on that channel is going to S-U-C-K!

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

Given what has been revealed about Texas politics and school administrators I'd say we're better off without them.

My sentiments exactly.

Gotta disagree on the winners/losers here. I see everyone rating Texas as either even or losers, and I'd call them big winners.

They got exactly what they wanted out of the deal: more control, more money, and their own TV network.

Their fans, on the other hand, are the real losers.

I think this is closer to the truth as well.

Great posts, I agrees.

:p

 

[High Lonesome]

Gotta disagree on the winners/losers here. I see everyone rating Texas as either even or losers, and I'd call them big winners.

They got exactly what they wanted out of the deal: more control, more money, and their own TV network.

Their fans, on the other hand, are the real losers. Their only marquee matchup now is with Oklahoma, and that's at JerryWorld. No more road trips to Lincoln and Boulder, no more visits by the Huskers. How would you like it if Ohio State's road schedule was Lubbock, Lawrence, Stillwater & Ames, and your alumni donation just for the privilege of being fleeced on season tickets got you into games against UL-U'Pickem, North Texas, a 1-AA curbstomping, some other Sun Belt foe, then the other half of your conference slate featuring Baylor, Kansas St, and Texas A&M?

Whoopdee-fucking-doo.

What the hell do they need BevoVision for? Baseball? The football on that channel is going to S-U-C-K!

there is no doubt that we are getting hosed on the home football schedule, but in my mind that was going on before all of this. Mack doesn't see a need for a tough schedule and to date he has been right. As strange as it seems, I almost hope that we get jumped in the BCS at the end of next year so that they will learn.*

Bevovision will be used for Baseball and other sports that have problems getting air time.

As a Texas fan I am pumped about the ability to watch Baseball on a consistant basis. I know that it doesn't sound like a big deal to yall but we take a lot of pride in that team and almost never get to see it till the supers.

Maybe its just the arrogant texan in me, but all this talk of the Pac10 passing and the big 10 telling texas take it or leave it the next time around seems foolish. While texas (with its own network) becomes a bit less desirable, there will still be plenty of options. We may not have the ability to pick and choose independantly but if this all starts going towards mega confrences Texas is not going to be left out in the cold. Especially if we are still raking in close to 15mm more than the next closest school.


*no I don't, what am I saying, I want another championship....and that ladies an gents is what they call a catch 22

 

[buckeyesin07]

Maybe its just the arrogant texan in me, but all this talk of the Pac10 passing and the big 10 telling texas take it or leave it the next time around seems foolish.

I agree with you on the Pac-10 idea--I don't think the Pac-10 will pass next time. But I disagree on your Big Ten claim. I could easily see the Big Ten saying, that UT can (1) come and be an equal participant in the Big Ten or (2) get lost.

 

[cincibuck]

BevoVision, football on channel K-S-U-K!

West-of-the-Mississippi rules apply for channel designations.