Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[OSU_D/]

There are a lot of rumors about ND and the Big 10 talking to varying degrees and I wonder if it doesn't boil down to 3 points in the negotiations:

1. Conference alignment. ND has rivalries with the teams that would be an "East" division: UM, MSU, PU, PSU. However, from a marketing aspect how do you put OSU, UM, PSU and ND in one division? I can't imagine ND wanting to come and be placed in the "West" and forced into playing the other UM, UW, UI, and Mizzou. My thought: I don't have the answer, but OSU, PSU, UM and ND can't be in the same division.

2. The final two teams. ND may want a say in who the Big 10 invites for the final two teams. They would probably be cool with the "West" if it included Texas. But assuming Texas can't come ND may want BC and Syracuse. The Big 10 could be focusing South on a GT and someone, or mid-Atlantic with Maryland and someone. Keep in mind the population shift comments esp if the Big 10 thinks that ND gives us enough tv sets in the NYC area. My thought: 2 of Maryland, GT, Vandy, UVA (supposing Vtech goes to the SEC).

3. TV. ND prides itself on its national image. However we have the BTN and would like to add ND's sporting events to its inventory. ND does recruit nationally better than anyone in conference - esp in pulling CA talent. (Aside: OSU could probably do it better if it had to, but our state is much better to us than Indiana to ND). Cutting the national contract with NBC is somewhat detrimental and I am sure there are some financial issues with NBC. My thought: I will defer to Delaney as I don't know enough here.

Five I am pulling for: CU, Nebraska, GT, Maryland and ND. If Mizzou comes I would reluctantly cut CU. I'd also cut CU for UVA (read: any great academic school from the mid atlantic or southeast) if that pipe dream happened too.

CU, Iowa, ILL, NU, Neb, Minn, UW, ND : OSU, UM, MSU, PSU, GT, MD, IU, PU - I just have a hard time thinking ND would go along w/ that set up. Perhaps the 4 pods of 4 teams each somehow?

 

[Meyer]

DaveyBoy laid it out really well and if this is really the plan by the B10 then I would say that it is pure genius.

And I agree with everything in ORD's post about if ND rejects us again.

Hopefully Texas values the Big Ten by a lot over the Pac 10 (they should for many reasons) and both Texas and A+M will join. I am not sure of what kind of impact the Texas legislature is having on all this but at least Texas would get to bring 1 of the 3 that they want.

 

[MaxBuck]

I wasn't aware FSU students cared about academics? They care more about fake boobs and football.

Hey now. These interests are not mutually exclusive. Many of us like to take time out from reading Kant to gaze fondly at Jenn Sterger.

 

[ScriptOhio]

DaveyBoy laid it out really well and if this is really the plan by the B10 then I would say that it is pure genius.

Amazing how Delaney goes from "evil mastermind" to "pure genius" in less than 24 hours.

 

[ScriptOhio]

Here is what the Notre Dame Athletic Director Jack Swarbrick was reported as saying yesterday to the New York Times:

Swarbrick, however, said he had not been engaged in any discussions with the Big Ten.
?First of all, there haven?t been any sort of deliberations,? he said. ?Internally, we talk about this stuff all the time. We have not entered into discussions with anyone."

Entire article: On College Football - While Expansion Is Considered, Notre Dame Returns to Spotlight - NYTimes.com

 

[bassbuckeye07]

I found these super secret texts from Gordon Gee to the University of Texas president....... Jimmy Crumb broke this news and I quote

Gordon Gee: "WTF"

Billy Powers: "IDK"

 

[buckeyesin07]

Check the Expansionpalooza Overflow thread. In the comments, waaaay down starting around 4:00pm today, it was mentioned that an announcement of Mizzou, Nebraska, and Notre Dame is imminent (as early as Wednesday). One of the sources works at a TV network and confirmed he's heard the rumor through the station. These three are being invited first, and Mizzou was at the request of Notre Dame, to take the conference to 14. Then an offer will be extended to Texas & Texas A&M. Done this way, the Texas legislature will get the hint that there are only two spots remaining, so Tech and Baylor are not even negotiable from the Big Ten's position. If this becomes a hang-up, then the Big Ten goes east (Cuse and Rutgers?) Either way, Delany saves face and the Texas state legislature is painted as the ones that failed to get Texas in.

Expansionpalooza Overflow Thread ? FRANK THE TANK?S SLANT

My question is this--if we can get ND, Nebraska and Missou, why bother adding another two teams? Why is it that we have to expand to 16? I'd just keep it at 14 as opposed to adding some also-rans like Syracuse and (especially) Rutgers. Then again, if we could get ND, I think the best case scenario is just keeping it at 12.

 

[Oh8ch]

Given many of the scenarios discussed NE/MO/ND is a wet dream.

With that hand it puts us in a strong position to offer Texas in a no lose situation. (Of the 5 winning-est programs off all time Texas would be the only one not in the Big Ten.)

 

[CleveBucks]

My question is this--if we can get ND, Nebraska and Missou, why bother adding another two teams? Why is it that we have to expand to 16? I'd just keep it at 14 as opposed to adding some also-rans like Syracuse and (especially) Rutgers. Then again, if we could get ND, I think the best case scenario is just keeping it at 12.

The Pac-10 would be a lock to go to 16, and the prevailing thought is that it would pave the way for four 16-team superconferences forming a new divison of football. In the Big Ten's case, it's better to pick at the beginning of the shuffle than after the ACC and SEC get serious about it, especially if you're targeting their teams (MD, UVA, GT, Vandy?).

 

[cincibuck]

Why does the Big 10 "need" Nebraska and Mizzou? Answer; they don't. Nice folks, nice schools, but it's simply more of what the Big 10 already has plenty of, two small market major league cities, cows and corn fields.

Why is there a need for a playoff? Because the SEC has one? Wait till the three loss SEC East/West team upsets the undefeated East/West team (hopefully in a re-match game they lost 42 - 7 the first time around).

Notre Dame would increase the league's national media visibility, especially along the East coast, balance out the Penn State, Michigan, Ohio State football match up - Ohio State gets Penn State and Michigan - Michigan gets Notre Dame and OSU - Penn State gets Ohio State and Notre Dame - Notre Dame gets Michigan and Penn State and a graduate/research program worthy of their undergrad.

I'm not sure what is going to happen to other conferences. The Big East is on shaky ground because it has no anchor --no better evidence of that than the fact that Cincinnati has been their champ the last two years-- They NEED Notre Dame or they go to ACC land --medium scale football and big basketball. Maybe you take away their automatic BCS bowl bid and give them two more guaranteed tourney seeds. Any ACC team with hopes beyond the Peach bowl wants nothing to do with the SEC. Academically and in terms of athletic ethics they are echelons above the SEC --apologies to Florida and Vandy--exceptions noted to Miami and Florida State. The Big 12 is in no need to change with the possible exception of putting Oklahoma in the North so that the conference playoff game has some merit, or simply change the format to "the two conference teams with the highest BCS rankings." The more I think about it and read Shaggybevo the more I believe that much of what motivates Austin is the shitty way Oklahoma was given the BCS vote in 08.

What motivates the PAC 10 is the indifference to the college game. It takes UCLA, Notre Dame or Ohio State vs USC to fill the Coliseum. Oregon can fill Autzen, but can't get any national attention and Washington is still staggering from the loss of Don James. In short, geography and the lack of college football fans are killing the Pac 10. They can well afford to accept Texas and the sisty uglies.

 

[kn1f3party]

ND + Nebraska + Missouri + Texas + Texas A&M = the best possible way this could work out.

 

[BB73]

The new Baylor President has been in office for 1 week as of today.

He is the same Ken Starr that was involved with the investigation that cuminated with a stain on Monica's blue dress.

He weighs in on expansion, desperately trying to keep Baylor in a major conference.

WacoTrib.com




I do realize I missed the 'l' in culminated.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

ND + Nebraska + Missouri + Texas + Texas A&M = the best possible way this could work out.

If we get ND, I'm happy to leave Texas, their attitude and all their baggage behind and look East (or maybe to Colorado) should we add two more. Besides, if we do get the above three, I think the B12 South is gone for the Pac 10. Texas and A&M can't come to the Big Ten unless the Pac 10 rejects Tech and Baylor (which is a real possibility) because that supposedly would give Texas the political cover to break off by themselves or, at worst, with A&M. Even then, I don't put it past the TX legislature (and UT) to demand that the B10 go to 18 in order to get Texas. Personally, I think UT wants Tech and Baylor along for ride because they will provide two reliable rubber-stamp votes for Texas' interests in whatever conference they land.

If there's one thing that I've come away with is that Texas does not play well with others. I think that's why you're still hearing rumblings about Oklahoma and A&M (the only two schools in that package that have any clout independent of UT) really wanting to separate and go to the SEC.

Regarding Cinci's post about this being about Texas' anger over the Oklahoma vote, I'd ask which came first the chicken or the egg. Was that vote the catalyst for Texas' behavior or was that vote really an angry response to a decade of Texas crapping all over the rest of the conference? I see a school whose own conference imploded because UT felt the other schools were living off its revenue. They then did what was essentially a hostile takeover of the Big 8, sucked it dry for over a decade, then threw a tantrum and blew it up because they didn't get their way once. Now they've packed up their subservient minions and have gone off to find a new home.

People of the Pac 10: The University of Texas is of Peace...Always.

 

[Buckrock]

Texas and TOSU would be perfect lovers. Both are Big, loud and brash! My perfect expansion list, which isnt going to happen is Texas, A&M, Nebraska, ND and an East coast school (Rutgers, Syracuse or Virginia). All possess the Academic and Athletic reputations that the Presidents of The Big 10 are looking for. Add in Basketball and the revenues for the Big 10 network sky rocket.

 

[Dryden]

Why does the Big 10 "need" Nebraska and Mizzou? Answer; they don't. Nice folks, nice schools, but it's simply more of what the Big 10 already has plenty of, two small market major league cities, cows and corn fields.

If the ultimate goal is to get Notre Dame into the Big Ten, then the Big Ten needs to make a concession to Notre Dame on the idea of the Domer's "national schedule." Nebraska in Notre Dame's division is a nationally appealing game (to go along with the Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State triumvirate when it comes to football dollars). Nebraska brings a nationally recognizable football brand and 22 sports overall, and they're not a basket case with a bunch of idiot siblings in tow like Texas. Maybe the value of the BTN is being overstated? The Huskers certainly make the Big Ten more appealing when negotiating its other TV contracts, such as its ABC/ESPN deals, and a combination of Nebraska AND Notre Dame makes the BTN more appealing as a basic channel in every state. After all, it's all about football dollars. Men's basketball may be a national sport one month out of the year, but if basketball really meant anything in the grand scheme of things than Kansas wouldn't be faced with the very real possibility that they (a Top 5 program under any metric, current or historical) could be homeless by Friday and faced with the choice of joining the Mountain West or Conference USA.

I think it shakes out this way: The Big Ten wants Notre Dame. If the feeling was mutual, ND would join and that'd be the end of it. Problem is, the feeling isn't mutual. Notre Dame will not budge unless there is radical realignment. Nebraska is the lynchpin to the Big XII (they are the entirety of the North Division when it comes to TV contracts), and it's well known Osborne is sick and tired of being bent over at the bargaining table by Texas. The Texas/Oklahoma duopoly got the CCG in Dallas while Kansas got the basketball tournament in Kansas City. Missouri and Nebraska both got screwed in the equation. So, the Big Ten plucks Nebraska and Missouri first to set the dominoes in motion. Notre Dame now has to join the Big Ten or be frozen out, while the Pac-10 is faced with reality that their geography means there is nowhere to expand but Texas. Does anyone really believe the Pac-10 would veto Baylor and Tech but take a Boise or BYU? And what TV markets does that get the Pac-10?

The Pac-10 needs Texas more than any other conference. From Delany's perspective, that's fine ... he doesn't have to deal with the headache of a Texas-bloc that wants to dictate the show, and as long as none of the Texas schools wind up in the SEC, even better! The SEC is forced to then raid the ACC, which now opens the door to the east for the Big Ten to go after Maryland and UVA. The remainder of the ACC absorbs the Big East making an even-better basketball conference than what they've already got, while the football is reduced to non-AQ status and cut out of the new BCS pie. In the shuffle a lot of "have nots" that became BCS "haves" go back to being "have nots" again.

A lot of people presume there would be 4 16-team superconference, but the Big East+ACC conference may not have much relevance nationally in football if Clemson, Florida St, Va Tech, and Miami wound up in the SEC. The real football powers (the new Big-16, Pac-16, and 16 team SEC) would have created a 48 team pact that cuts out a lot of recent hangers-on that got 'into the club' after the ACC-raid in 2003 (South Florida, Louisville, and Cincinnati).