Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[ORD_Buckeye]

The Dream Fit

Notre Dame
​

• Strengths

• very strong undergraduate reputation
• Great football tradition
• National fanbase
• OK basketball tradition
• Strong Olympic sports, and they bring a D1 hockey program should the B10 ever wish to form a hockey league

• Weaknesses

• marginal graduate, faculty and research reputation that would need to be addressed
• Would a religious school, particularly one that seems to toe the Vatican line much more than do Georgetown or BC, be a good cultural/academic fit in the Big Ten
• Even if they came begging to join, their arrogance would still lead to their demanding special financial/scheduling/bowl considerations

• Conclusion

• Despite their delusional arrogance, in the long term, they need us more than we need them leading to the question of, given their antics last time around, do we tell them to eff off and look elsewhere or wait for their inevitable knock on our door?

The Contenders

Pitt
​

• Strong academic reputation in all areas/AAU member
• provides a natural rival for Penn State
• Decent football tradition and growing basketball reputation
• Weaknesses: don't expand Big Ten's physical, recruiting or television footprint; not sure about the strength of their Olympic sports

Syracuse and Rutgers​

• Strong academics/AAU members
• Access to NYC television market (though this may be overstated as NYC is a traditionally pro-oriented sports town)
• Also expands Big Ten's recruiting footprint
• Provides a geographic rival for Penn State though not as natural a one as would Pitt
• Great basketball/good football tradition at Syracuse
• Little tradition at Rutgers and weak Olympic sports

Texas
​

• Given geography and internal Texas legislature politics (they'd be strong-armed into taking A&M along), an enormous long shot, but...
• An almost stereotypical Big Ten university academically and culturally and supposedly wants out of the B12
• Best football tradition among the contenders, other than ND
• Great Olympic sports
• Weakness: Two Words--Mathew McConaughey

Missouri
​

• Adds the St. Louis and KC television markets but not much else
• An AAU member but still would immediately become the weakest academic school in the B10 (a hard sell to the presidents and faculties)
• Weak Olympic sports programs
• Easily the weakest candidate and a borderline pretender

The Pretenders

Any B12 school not named Texas and (maybe) Missouri
​

• Think Missouri without the KC/St. Louis television markets

Louisville, Cincinnati and West Virginia
​

• Don't turn on additional television sets
• Marginal football tradition
• Weak Olympic sports programs
• Weak, weak, weak academics--an absolute non starter with the faculties and presidents

The Ridiculous

Any MAC School
​

• Bring absolutely nothing to the table academically. None are even close to AAU membership, and only Miami of Ohio sniffs at the Big Ten in undergrad rankings but would still be a bottom-quarter undergrad B10 school.
• Marginal to non-existent football traditions
• 15K crowds in 25K stadiums
• Lacking any significant football money, they have, at best, third tier Olympic sports programs and facilities
• No additional television sets or recruiting advantages to be had
• Would merely cannibalize an existing Big Ten state and weaken that state's existing B10 school(s).

 

[sandgk]

The Contenders

Pitt​

• Strong academic reputation in all areas/AAU member
• provides a natural rival for Penn State
• Decent football tradition and growing basketball reputation
• Weaknesses: don't expand Big Ten's physical, recruiting or television footprint; not sure about the strength of their Olympic sports

They have a quite reasonable tradition at Olympic Sports - Wikipedia

Olympic Sports
Pitt has had a long history of success in other intercollegiate athletic events. In Track and Field, Pitt has produced several Olympic and NCAA champions such as 800m Olympic gold medalist John Woodruff, two-time 110m hurdle Olympic gold medalist Roger Kingdom, and seven-time NCAA champion and 2005 World Champion triple jumper Trecia-Kaye Smith.[79] The wrestling program has a rich history and is among the leaders in producing individual national champions with 15.[80] Pitt's women's volleyball team is the 12th winningest program in the nation[81] and has won 11 Big East championships and appeared in 11 NCAA tournaments since the program began in 1974.[82] Pitt's swimming and diving teams have produced several Olympians and won 19 men's and nine women's Big East Championships since joining the conference in 1983. Pitt women's gymnastics has qualified for the NCAA Northeast Regional Championship in all but two years in the past ten seasons.[83] Baseball, Pitt's oldest sport, has produced many major league players and has become a regular participant in the Big East post-season championship.[84] Other sports have also found success to varying degrees.

 

[Zurp]

Notre Dame

• Despite their delusional arrogance, in the long term, they need us more than we need them leading to the question of, given their antics last time around, do we tell them to eff off and look elsewhere or wait for their inevitable knock on our door?

I've often thought about how funny it would be if the Big Ten expanded with Marshall, or something, just when Notre Dame comes begging for a conference. And then they'd go joining the MAC, or something. Hilarious.

Ok - not "my heart just stopped from laughing so much" funny, but it's a little funny.

Pitt

• provides a natural rival for Penn State

It would be pretty cool to see every team matched up for a big rivalry weekend every year. It is currently Ohio State/Michigan, Purdue/Indiana, Illinois/Northwestern, and Michigan State/Penn State. But MSU/PSU doesn't make much sense. No long history, as far as I know, and they aren't geographically rivals. Pitt would be pretty cool for this. Match MSU up with Central Michigan, or someone who they have a chance against.

 

[TooTall]

But MSU/PSU doesn't make much sense. No long history, as far as I know, and they aren't geographically rivals. Pitt would be pretty cool for this. Match MSU up with Central Michigan, or someone who they have a chance against.

Isn't the MSU-PSU game played for the Land Grant Trophy?

 

[Zurp]

Isn't the MSU-PSU game played for the Land Grant Trophy?

You can call it whatever you want to. But, to me, there isn't much interest in it. Penn State vs. Pitt has a geographical rivalry. And, I think they used to try to play every year.

The "Land Grant Trophy" is less exciting to me than the Illibuck Trophy (I hope the Buckeyes win the Illibuck every year, but I'm never going to ask anyone to take a picture of me holding it).

 

[Bleed S & G]

Isn't the MSU-PSU game played for the Land Grant Trophy?

B89F, i tried to PM you back and answer your question.. your PMs are turned off man

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

(I hope the Buckeyes win the Illibuck every year, but I'm never going to ask anyone to take a picture of me holding it).

Because your pants would drop...

 

[TooTall]

B89F, i tried to PM you back and answer your question.. your PMs are turned off man

My bad, I'll fix it.

 

[BrutusBobcat]

Flipping ORD's excellent post around, of the real contenders, who has the most to gain by seeking to join the Big 10?

We've gone over Notre Dame -- continued futility may kill their independent television deal and bowl money revenue, sending them in search of a conference. Their only real choices are the B10 and Big East. I think that their lack of Big Ten quality graduate programs and research makes them more suited to the Big East, and they may not be looking for as difficult a football conference as the B10.

Pittsburgh benefits on the academic side, and gets their rivalry back with Penn State. That can only help their recruiting, particularly if Penn State has an uneasy transition in the post-Paterno era (whenever that starts. Probably 2025). Beyond football, their other sports are a great fit, and they'd get to be in conference with all of their main recruiting rivals. The main loss would be no longer being in conference with new main rival WVU.

Texas...wow. Travel distance is a big issue, particularly for the less well-funded sports, and there are no natural rivals in the B10 (yet). They'd lose either the A&M game or the Red River Shootout, but they've been down the conference musical chairs road before with the collapse of the SWC. They gain by being part of a more prestigious group of schools academically, and there aren't many places to go if you don't like being in the Big 12. The SEC is full and would have to kick someone out, which won't happen, and any other conference just isn't suitable for a school of Texas' caliber. If they leave, the Big Ten is the only place to go.

Given the past history with Notre Dame, I think that the most likely school to seek entry is Pitt, followed by Texas. Notre Dame won't see the light until it's too late, and when they do, they'll join the Big East.

 

[Trojanalways]

12th Big Ten School

You are all over- looking the University of Pittsburgh, a close-by natural fiit an ancient rival of Penn State and an often foe of Ohio State in years past, It will bringe the Western Pa. football crazy fans, Eastern Ohio and the neck of West Va. into the fold. Scratch the Divisions keep it like it is. Mich State could be matched up with nearby Wisconsin for a final game. Pitt and Penn State used to meet annually quite often the last game!

 

[Mike80]

The Dream Fit

Notre Dame​

• Strengths

• very strong undergraduate reputation
• Great football tradition
• National fanbase
• OK basketball tradition
• Strong Olympic sports, and they bring a D1 hockey program should the B10 ever wish to form a hockey league

• Weaknesses

• marginal graduate, faculty and research reputation that would need to be addressed
• Would a religious school, particularly one that seems to toe the Vatican line much more than do Georgetown or BC, be a good cultural/academic fit in the Big Ten
• Even if they came begging to join, their arrogance would still lead to their demanding special financial/scheduling/bowl considerations

• Conclusion

• Despite their delusional arrogance, in the long term, they need us more than we need them leading to the question of, given their antics last time around, do we tell them to eff off and look elsewhere or wait for their inevitable knock on our door?

The Contenders

Pitt​

• Strong academic reputation in all areas/AAU member
• provides a natural rival for Penn State
• Decent football tradition and growing basketball reputation
• Weaknesses: don't expand Big Ten's physical, recruiting or television footprint; not sure about the strength of their Olympic sports

Syracuse and Rutgers​

• Strong academics/AAU members
• Access to NYC television market (though this may be overstated as NYC is a traditionally pro-oriented sports town)
• Also expands Big Ten's recruiting footprint
• Provides a geographic rival for Penn State though not as natural a one as would Pitt
• Great basketball/good football tradition at Syracuse
• Little tradition at Rutgers and weak Olympic sports

Texas​

• Given geography and internal Texas legislature politics (they'd be strong-armed into taking A&M along), an enormous long shot, but...
• An almost stereotypical Big Ten university academically and culturally and supposedly wants out of the B12
• Best football tradition among the contenders, other than ND
• Great Olympic sports
• Weakness: Two Words--Mathew McConaughey

Missouri​

• Adds the St. Louis and KC television markets but not much else
• An AAU member but still would immediately become the weakest academic school in the B10 (a hard sell to the presidents and faculties)
• Weak Olympic sports programs
• Easily the weakest candidate and a borderline pretender

The Pretenders

Any B12 school not named Texas and (maybe) Missouri​

• Think Missouri without the KC/St. Louis television markets

Louisville, Cincinnati and West Virginia​

• Don't turn on additional television sets
• Marginal football tradition
• Weak Olympic sports programs
• Weak, weak, weak academics--an absolute non starter with the faculties and presidents

The Ridiculous

Any MAC School​

• Bring absolutely nothing to the table academically. None are even close to AAU membership, and only Miami of Ohio sniffs at the Big Ten in undergrad rankings but would still be a bottom-quarter undergrad B10 school.
• Marginal to non-existent football traditions
• 15K crowds in 25K stadiums
• Lacking any significant football money, they have, at best, third tier Olympic sports programs and facilities
• No additional television sets or recruiting advantages to be had
• Would merely cannibalize an existing Big Ten state and weaken that state's existing B10 school(s).

From that list, I'd say Pitt or Texas is the most likely....

And hey, maybe if Texas A&M is attached to Texas, the Big 10 cuts Minny loose back to the Big XII.

I don't think anything is going to happen near term though.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

You are all over- looking the University of Pittsburgh...

How are we ALL overlooking Pitt??

A quick search revealed that Pitt is referenced in 32 posts in this thread, and Pittsburgh is mentioned in 3 others. There is a post with a GPA just a few above yours that mentions Pitt first among "contenders".

Considering how many posts there are in this thread that say nothing other than that they think expanding the conference is a bad idea, I would say Pitt is getting ample consideration from a group of people who have absolutely no bearing on whether anything of the kind will ever happen.

 

[muffler dragon]

How are we ALL overlooking Pitt??

A quick search revealed that Pitt is referenced in 32 posts in this thread, and Pittsburgh is mentioned in 3 others. There is a post with a GPA just a few above yours that mentions Pitt first among "contenders".

Considering how many posts there are in this thread that say nothing other than that they think expanding the conference is a bad idea, I would say Pitt is getting ample consideration from a group of people who have absolutely no bearing on whether anything of the kind will ever happen.

I think it has to do with his name:

TrojANALways

 

[RugbyBuck]

Vanderbilt. Not too far away from the rest of the conference. Beachhead in the southeast. Unquestionable academics. Athletic success comparable to NW/MN/IN (football).

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

con

Vanderbilt. Not too far away from the rest of the conference. Beachhead in the southeast. Unquestionable academics. Athletic success comparable to NW/MN/IN (football).

I never really considered them, but for the reasons which you outlined, they are a very logical contender.