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Armstrong's on the juice?

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Vikes said:
You missed my point entirely. It doesn't matter if its a steroid, doping agent, or erthryopoetin. If the substance gives an unfair advantage that must be looked into. I can see theoretically how erthryopotein may be used to give an unfair advantage. Maybe they looked into it. Maybe not....

They might say erthropoetin is a naturally occuring substance but not even bother looking at what levels to which he's taking it.
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Apparently I did understand your confusion correctly. You are arguing that something should be done, when in fact it already is. Doping agents are already tested for. It doesn't matter that they are naturally occurring substances. Steroids are naturally occurring substances as well, but they, like any other biomolecule, occur naturally within certain limits. Both types of molecules are already tested for, to see whether they are in the subject's system at super-normal levels.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
Armstrong gets tested as much as any other cyclist, if not moreso. So, I don't understand the boner you have against Armstrong.

As for the marathon situation where your legs are burning due to lactic acid buildup while some other guy blows by you, maybe, just maybe, it's because that other guy trained harder than you and/or is more naturally suited for distance running. Why does it have to be that if a person is better than someone else, that person must be cheating?
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I can guess why you have boner for me posting anything hinting against Lance Armstrong from your previous post. Dude take a chill pill its a biochemistry exercise and not meant to get your panties in a bunch. Geeeesh.

As a scientist it would be an interesting research question. Does Erthryopoiten have an effect on athletes performance? An article stating the contrary would have been more appropriate than crass commentary or the simplistic view that I was accusing of him of cheating. I did say they may have or MAY HAVE NOT done research into it. YOU seem oblivious to me stating the former.
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Bingo


There has been abuse of EPO so my theorizing simply as a scientist was correct. This doesn't mean I was accusing Armstrong of cheating.
He might be taking the appropriate amount of EPO for his medical condition but this substance has been abused by cyclists and it has been looked into.

http://www.standards.org.au/STANDARDS/NEWSROOM/TAS/1999-08/T2008F04/T2008F04.HTM

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/tour04/?id=features/doping

As a side note....its interesting there isn't uniform anti-doping agency for all countries.
IADA international Anti-doping Agency includes the governments of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway, The Netherlands, Sweden and the United Kingdom.

Other anti-doping organizations include national anti-doping organizations (NADOs) and the International Olympic Committee (IOC) and the affiliated national Olympic committees (NOCs).

What is the anti-doping organization that takes care of the Tour de france?
 
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As long as his hematocrit levels are not above the legal limit all is good with the world. He is tested MORE than anyone becasue he wins more than anyone. This is a silly argument with no basis other than jealousy.
 
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Vikes said:
I can guess why you have boner for me posting anything hinting against Lance Armstrong from your previous post. Dude take a chill pill its a biochemistry exercise and not meant to get your panties in a bunch. Geeeesh.

As a scientist it would be an interesting research question. Does Erthryopoiten have an effect on athletes performance? An article stating the contrary would have been more appropriate than crass commentary or the simplistic view that I was accusing of him of cheating. I did say they may have or MAY HAVE NOT done research into it. YOU seem oblivious to me stating the former.
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No boner, Einstein, just a disdain for some who keeps on insinuating that those who are highly successful, in particular Lance Armstrong, are doing something illegal. Throughout this entire thread you've done all but call Armstrong a dope-head. You also imply that if someone is more successful in an endurance type race, it must because they are getting some sort of illegal help, i.e., drugs.
 
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Folanator said:
This is a silly argument with no basis other than jealousy.
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Jealousy? far from it. Armstrong WORSHIP seems to be the only point of view here. DON't worship him and it causes a riot.

My intentions purely the effects of EPO on performance. As stated again and again and again and again.
 
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Vikes said:
Jealousy? far from it. Armstrong WORSHIP seems to be the only point of view here. DON't worship him and it causes a riot.

My intentions purely the effects of EPO on performance. As stated again and again and again and again.
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If your crap about EPO was true, then he would have been in trouble for it years ago.
So basically, your wrong, either admit to it or just move on.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
No boner, Einstein, just a disdain for some who keeps on insinuating that those who are highly successful, in particular Lance Armstrong, are doing something illegal. Throughout this entire thread you've done all but call Armstrong a dope-head. You also imply that if someone is more successful in an endurance type race, it must because they are getting some sort of illegal help, i.e., drugs.
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I said EPO can be abused theoritically. Isn't it ironic that a simple exercise in biochemistry I was able to deduce the possibility of abuse. 2nd link EXHIBIT A. THERE'S A HISTORY OF IT.

Simply by doing a search we see the standardization of the detection of this drug has been a problematic for many years. The most recent changes being 2004. IN 2004???????????????

So if we took on face value what some people were saying in this thread, it was simply ESPIN trying degrading Lance Armstrong.....WRONG. EPO has been a problem in cycling for years.... (Trying to balance its use for Anemia and using it for performance enhancement .....is a good question to ask and how can that be circumvented to make it fair for all.)

Simply measuring hematocrit/hemoglobin becomes problematic because it will be artificially elevated in a dehydrated person after the race, which will be everyone. Plus There are so many ways to avoid giving the exact amount of EPO injected before the race based on the article provided.

How do you make the standardization of EPO an illegal substance, fair for someone who can't inject it with a person who must inject it for medical reasons. Its an Interesting exerecise Brain teaser.
 
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Vikes said:
What is the anti-doping organization that takes care of the Tour de france?
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UCI The Union Cyclists International.

Testing Helatocrit levels is not problematic becasue of dehydration. There are accepatble limits. If you are over you are out. Not a problem at all.
 
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Folanator said:
UCI The Union Cyclists International.

Testing Helatocrit levels is not problematic becasue of dehydration. There are accepatble limits. If you are over you are out. Not a problem at all.
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http://www.velonews.com/train/articles/5300.0.html

If you are trying to correct me specifically, Hematocrit levels are problematic at the end of the race because of dehydration, to bypass this they test hematocrit levels before the race.

It is wrong to state they draw blood from dehydrated cyclists after the race and from this sample they can deduce "acceptable" limits of normal.

2nd paragraph,

http://www.velonews.com/train/articles/5300.0.html
 
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Lance was the "lebron" of cycling before his bout with cancer......i don't see where it is so hard to believe that following his chemo, that he could live up to his potential as the best young cyclist in the world....

most especially with the mental toughness that he shows.....

lets also not forget that he has the best team surrounding him in the history of cycling......in 2004 Azevedo carried Lance through the mountains and in 2003 Tyler Hamilton carried Lance to victory.....if you want to lay blame on Lance, put it on his being the captain of the NewYorkYankees of cycling....
 
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Alan said:
Lance was the "lebron" of cycling before his bout with cancer......i don't see where it is so hard to believe that following his chemo, that he could live up to his potential as the best young cyclist in the world....

most especially with the mental toughness that he shows.....

lets also not forget that he has the best team surrounding him in the history of cycling......in 2004 Azevedo carried Lance through the mountains and in 2003 Tyler Hamilton carried Lance to victory.....if you want to lay blame on Lance, put it on his being the captain of the NewYorkYankees of cycling....
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Agreement.....Its a great story. Survives cancer and then wins the Tour De France.
 
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