Armstrong's on the juice?

[Steve19]

Don't post here and spout off and regurgitate some ESPN bullshit ...We don't need your slander of one of the true great american heros.

Ditto. We know why ESPiN engages in slandering a true hero who has gone through what he has gone through, because some hanger-on wants to extort money and it makes for revenue? Let's not assist these wonderful investigative journalists, okay?

 

[Oh8ch]

We live in a jaded world where the antics of folks like Mark Mcgwire make us all a bit skeptical. That - and the need for some alternative explanation of any outstanding performance - can explain why some folks would want to listen to Armstrong's accuser.

On the other hand, the antics of ESPN and the distorted reports regarding OSU should make us all skeptical of accusations from any quarter.

The fact is that Lance Armstrong is an increcible athelte - and probably my #1 sports hero. To do what he has done even IF he was juiced is an amzaing accomlishment - particularly since he has beaten other riders who have proven to be juiced.

If it should ever come out that Armstrong took any illegal substance I would be very disappointed to learn that he was a liar - but he would still be my hero.

 

[powerlifter]

It's hard to tell. Sounds like a fishy story with a vendetta against someone. My guess is he's talkin about epo. People that are saying he's been tested a million times.. It raises hct within weeks and it has a low window for detection. I could careless what he is running or isn't running ..he is an amazing individual.

 

[bucknut11]

Just to clarify a few things, E$PN is NOT the only ones running this story and they are NOT the ones who created it. It's an AP story and ALL of the major sports sites are reporting the accusations (E$PN, SI, CBS Sportsline, Fox Sports, even Yahoo! sports). I know alot of people here hate that organization and rightly so, but let's not go say that any negative sports story is their work. I said earlier, there's a expanding trend in looking for pro athletes who are taking illegal substances in ALL sports and until it dies down, we are going to hear about it, especially those athletes at the top of their respective sport. That doesn't make any of them true or false, per se, but the stories are going to be there.

 

[Folanator]

11 this has nothing to do with ESPN. This is old news, it came out right before the TD France May of last year.

My irritation comes from the comments about "the juice" by posters that obviously have zero idea of what they are talking about. Steroids do absolutely nothing for guys that are doing what they do in the TDF. Durring heavy lifting cycles maybe, but not while racing.

I am not naive in thinking that LA does not do anything. I would be very upset, and I do not think that he is, but I am not stupid. Quite frankly I am 90% sure that almost everyone in the pro peleton are doing something.

I have been told that LA has a legal advantage because he can legally boost his hematocrit levels because of the chemo damaging his system.

I NEVER thought that Tyler Hamilton would have been doping but he was. He was blood packing before the Olympics. They found foreign cells in his blood, Tyler swears it was from an operation from months before. I love Tyler but I do not believe him unfortunately.

There is a condition called the "tall tulip syndrome" where is is human nature to chop down those who are bigger than the rest of us. If you are going to take shots at Lance you better have your facts in order.

 

[bucknut11]

For starters, I'm not sure where I ever took a shot at Lance, so if you can show me, that'd be great. Never once did I say that he was doing anything illegal, and honestly, I really hope he isn't because of what a great inspiration he has become.

You referred to the story as "ESPN bullsh*t" and Steve19 said that "ESPiN engages in slandering a true hero." I was just pointing out the fact that they weren't the ones who created these allegations.

 

[Folanator]

For starters, I'm not sure where I ever took a shot at Lance, so if you can show me, that'd be great. Never once did I say that he was doing anything illegal, and honestly, I really hope he isn't because of what a great inspiration he has become.

You referred to the story as "ESPN bullsh*t" and Steve19 said that "ESPiN engages in slandering a true hero." I was just pointing out the fact that they weren't the ones who created these allegations.

No you didn't take a shot at LA. I did not mean to insinuate you were. I was back commenting on the post from page 1. Your comments were fine.

I understand your point. I am just miffed that these are just a re-hashing of some old news.

No worries.

 

[bucknut11]

Ok.

 

[Vikes]

If steroids is included in performance enhancement drug category, why can't erythropoietin or any drug that increases the number RBC's in the blood?

Playing devils advocate.

Erythropoietin occurs naturally in the body but if a person is allowed to inject whatever amount in him/her, that may give him an unfair advantage over someoneelse.
If there is increased RBCs, increased cells to carry oxygen/ and get rid of carbondioxide therefore less lactic acid and possibly an advantage, in cycling.

Has there been a study to see the effects of erythropoietin in sports?
Only studies I'm aware of .....are those that show its effects at ameliorating Anemia.

America loves peope who fight adversity and they love heroes. However, I think more research needs to be done in terms of what substances Armstrong is taking.

 

[zincfinger]

If steroids is included in performance enhancement drug category, why can't erythropoietin or any drug that increases the number RBC's in the blood?

Playing devils advocate.

Erythropoietin occurs naturally in the body but if a person is allowed to inject whatever amount in him/her, that may give him an unfair advantage over someoneelse.
If there is increased RBCs, increased cells to carry oxygen/ and get rid of carbondioxide therefore less lactic acid and possibly an advantage, in cycling.

Has there been a study to see the effects of erythropoietin in sports?
Only studies I'm aware of .....are those that show its effects at ameliorating Anemia.

America loves peope who fight adversity and they love heroes. However, I think more research needs to be done in terms of what substances Armstrong is taking.

I'm not sure if I understand you, but if you're suggesting that there's some confusion about the difference between steroids and doping agents, or that doping agents aren't considered illegal or aren't being tested for in the pro cycling circuit, that's incorrect.

 

[Oh8ch]

I think more research needs to be done in terms of what substances Armstrong is taking.

Gotta take exception to this statement because I see similar statements made a lot about many star athletes who some feel owe the public an explanation for their success.

Armstrong should be treated like every other cyclist on the tour. He does'nt need to have "more research" done on him because he performs better, has suspect accusations made against him (this guy is to Armstrong what McGill was to OSU), or because the public is simply curious about what makes him go.

1. The man's training regimen is legendary. He freakin works harder than anyone else. (BTW - IF a cyclist was to benefit from the use of steroids it is here that it is most likely to be seen IMO.)

2. An enormous amount of money is spent on his equipment.

3. He has the best team money can buy.

All of these give him a great advantage and all can explain his success without the need to cheat.

So please give me a single reason why he should be treated like he is gulity of a crime other than the fact that he is the tallest tulip (I like that metaphor)?

I was as disappointed as Folonator about Hamilton, and MAYBE Armstrong does cheat.

However, the fact that others cheat says nothing about whether you cheat.

The fact that you are successful says nothing about whether you cheat.

The fact that someone with a grudge makes a statement that by its nature can not be corroborated says something - but not damn much - about whether you cheat.

He gets tested like everyone else on the tour. The biggest difference between he and others is that nobody would have a toughter time getting away with using illegal substances than Armstrong.

 

[NightmaresDad]

ESPiN's next accusation......

Boston Garden inserted special "expanding" rims that would activate every time Larry Bird shot a 3 pointer...

Carl Lewis' lane was always sloped downhill when he ran the 100, and he used an anti-gravity jock strap for his long jumps....

another OSU scandal - Mike Nugent used laser-guided footballs specially developed in an OSU lab. Where do you think that $90 Million Athletic Dept. budget went?

Dr J was abducted by aliens and given implants to make him fly....


Sports journalism today is either over-hyping somebody as being way better than reality, or tearing someone down who is truly exceptional. either way, it's only because their true motivation is NOT the love of the sport, but TO BECOME FAMOUS THEMSELVES because they couldn't cut it either in sports or journalism.

 

[Vikes]

I'm not sure if I understand you, but if you're suggesting that there's some confusion about the difference between steroids and doping agents, or that doping agents aren't considered illegal or aren't being tested for in the pro cycling circuit, that's incorrect.

You missed my point entirely. It doesn't matter if its a steroid, doping agent, or erthryopoetin. If the substance gives an unfair advantage that must be looked into. I can see theoretically how erthryopotein may be used to give an unfair advantage. Maybe they looked into it. Maybe not.
If NOT.
I wonder if because of the story (American cancer survivor wins the Tour de france.) ...they are shying away from doing proper research into the matter.
They might say erthropoetin is a naturally occuring substance but not even bother looking at what levels to which he's taking it. Maybe they excuse the fact that he has Cancer, so drugs to treat it or negate its effects will be overlooked but those same drugs might give him advantage. Do to the irregularity of the situation in which a drug normallly used in certain diseased states such as Anemia, there might not be research of the effects of the same drug on enhancing performance.

He gets tested like everyone else on the tour. The biggest difference between he and others is that nobody would have a toughter time getting away with using illegal substances than Armstrong.

TREAT him like everyone else no favorites. That's the whole point of my thread. They might have already done this ...they might not.

EXAMPLE
If you are running 20 mile marathon, you're going at a steady pace. Then at 10th mile your speed is 1/2 of what it was in the 8 mile marker. At this point your muscles are burning because of the lactic acid build up ...you see another competitor who doesn't seem to be bothered past the 10th mile marker and is going at the same pace he did at the 8th mile marker. His legs don't burn as much. Wouldn't you want to know if the RBC producing drug he was taking.= Erythropoetin was reducing the Lactic acid build up. BY 1. supplying him with more O2 and 2. getting rid of CO2 at a faster rate than other people who don't have to take it?

he's self injecting erythropoetin. So your telling me he's injecting the legal requirement for any person in his condition? Or is he injecting a higher amount in order to alleviate any symptoms he's has from anemia due to the cancer?

The point I'm making I would hope someone would look into it and not shy away from it because you don't want to destroy some MYTH someone has of somebody.
If they've done that, then fine. IF they haven't it must be looked into.

If you don't understand my point, google Erythropoetin, glycolysis, lactic acid...then comeback to discuss.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

TREAT him like everyone else no favorites. That's the whole point of my thread. They might have already done this ...they might not.

EXAMPLE
If you are running 20 mile marathon, you're going at a steady pace. Then at 10th mile your speed is 1/2 of what it was in the 8 mile marker. At this point your muscles are burning because of the lactic acid build up ...you see another competitor who doesn't seem to be bothered past the 10th mile marker and is going at the same pace he did at the 8th mile marker. His legs don't burn as much. Wouldn't you want to know if the RBC producing drug he was taking.= Erythropoetin was reducing the Lactic acid build up. BY 1. supplying him with more O2 and 2. getting rid of CO2 at a faster rate than other people who don't have to take it?

...

If you don't understand my point, google Erythropoetin, glycolysis, lactic acid...then comeback to discuss.

Armstrong gets tested as much as any other cyclist, if not moreso. So, I don't understand the boner you have against Armstrong.

As for the marathon situation where your legs are burning due to lactic acid buildup while some other guy blows by you, maybe, just maybe, it's because that other guy trained harder than you and/or is more naturally suited for distance running. Why does it have to be that if a person is better than someone else, that person must be cheating?

 

[Alan]

obviously i have no inside information as to what lance does in training or any of the other cyclists out there...

this much i do know from following the sport closely for the past 15 years.....

lance is easily the #1 cyclist in the world when it comes to mental toughness....period....