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#6 Ohio State 74, Indiana 67 (Final)

I am not sure why everyone is knocking on conley...at times he has been the only consistent person on the floor outside of sir oden of course...i agree that as time goes by and we practice more things will continue to get better but for a guy that is on pace to break the assist record as a freshmen thats pretty impressive to me...i see no reason for him to come off the bench

when cook gets the ball he takes some very off balanced shots and even though he makes most of them hes gotta get better at that...but he is def gone next year so we have to enjoy it while he is here

as far as lighty goes...he is just not on the same level but i feel like he will be a GREAT 4 year player here and being a defensive minded player once he gets mroe used to things he will do well

with all of that said i really like it when both conley and butler are on the floor becuase it gives us 2 very good ball handlers and against a team with a good guard defender this will be very helpful
 
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OSU_Buckguy;703736; said:
at times it seems that cook forgets he's on a team and decides to shoot regardless of what the defense is offering
And so long as his shooting percentage remains 2nd in the entire conference (among guards), I hope he continues to do so. Also, let me counter some of Junkie's remarks:
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stadium dorm in dead on here. not saying he isnt a good player, but lack of a perm shot, or confidence in the shot and the fact he dribbles too much is tough to overlook by me.
Conley's lack of a perimeter shot is really hurting us in our half court sets, its unbelievable how much the defense sags off of him and dares him to take the outside shot. That being said, I know that his shooting will come in time. I agree there is a bit of a sag against Conley, but I do not think it's as big a deal as you do, Junkie.

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i felt a turning point in the game was when matta went to the more athletic line up and let his horses run. my old coach (it seems like i quote the guy in about every other one of these) used to say race horses run and ponies prance. mattas choice to dictate and go athletic was a very nice coaching call in my eyes.
Dead on right here. We continue to be a more fluid offensive team when Oden is not on the floor and when we went small last night with Hunter playing the 5, it puts extreme pressure on the defense to come out and play us on the perimeter and allows us to penetrate with ease and we saw that last night. Its a dilema right now for Matta, how do you get the best team on the court and play to your strengths? Its a nice problem to have and I think the further we go, the chemistry between Oden and everyone else will improve. I think some of problem on the offensive side is that the perimeter guys are looking to much to dump it in and not just take their shots within the flow of the offense and penetrate when it is available. I saw a team at the end of the game wherein the athletic guards finally began to play as they did earlier in the season - Lewis, Butler and Conley all taking the ball strong to the hole, and being rewarded with foul shot opportunities. If they continue to do so, the Bucks can weather their recent 3-point slump.

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hunter, continues to improve, dont kid yourself he is still raw and his hands are average. but what im seeing here is a kid who is improving by leaps and bounds. has really shown he can steal minutes at the five and playing him at the four makes this team long athletic and defensively imposing.
Hunter has made some strides on the offensive end, I personally would like to see him be more physical on defense and focus on the rebounding. I guess I am being critical here, but I see a potential All-Big Ten pick next year if he continues to develop at this pace. Agreed.

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oden. im to the point were i just try and enjoy every moment of it. i have yet to be overly impressed with him. that being said i have to keep telling myself hes playing with one hand. his inability to snap his wrist, use his thumb and get a good grasp on the ball almost scares me, in the good kind of way. took a beating tonight physically, you saw it work for the gators, youll see it all b10 season. also 9 of 10 from the line...with his left hand (i didnt see any righties tonight but im still 99.9 sure i saw one against coppin state)
Its hard to be critical of a guy who is playing with his off hand. It is absolutely scary to think what he can do with 100% use of his right hand. He dominates the paint on defense and draws fouls on the offensive end, just an unbelievable difference maker when he is on the court. Agreed - with emphasis!

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lighty. matta showed confidence in the kid and show his willingness put him in as a finisher, sure he might have been saving cook for ot, but he still had the confidence to put him in there. he saw limited number of minutes but continued to play well. i still feel he will be a very good player but just insnt there yet. also i said it when he missed his two fts on the shooting foul that it could have been huge. luckily it wasnt.
Lighty has not gotten the minutes of some of the other guys, but he has been solid. I think he is still trying to find his role on this team and I also think by the end of the year he will contribute more on the offensive end. Lighty was obviously the least highly-touted of the incoming frosh, and so far we see why. Not that he is not a fine player; he is. But his mates are astoundingly good; Cook, Oden and Conley will all be in the NBA in a few years, and Dave likely won't be.


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lewis. played 30 minutes tonite. had a nice game, on the def end of the court he still is a weakness of the team in that regard. at this point if i had to project his role i would say it diminishes as the year progresses. that being said ron is the type of kid who could be huge for the team late in the year. veteran player who can step up when needed. but he seems to be a little to "me" for my taste on the offensive end. if he moved the ball more he would open up his own game slashing to the hoop. hes got the drive and kick so often, or the drive and dump.
Lewis baffles me really, he has the ability to simply score in bunches on the offensive end, but since the return of Oden, he seems to be hesitant to take the shot or penetrate in the lane. I don't agree that his role will diminish, I think it will increase as we get deeper in the Big Ten. He came up with a key three point bucket late last night. He has never been a great defensive player and lets face it, he never will. He is a scorer who needs to get back to what made him so dangerous in the first place, penetration. I am almost to the point where I would rather see Lewis coming off the bench, where he was very effective last year and have Cook starting.


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conley. i mentioned above about the shot and the dribbling, what you cant question is his ability to move the ball and ability to push the floor.
Its hard to be critical of a PG who simply does not turn the ball over. And who is averaging almost seven dimes a game! I agree that he does have areas of improvement, but lets not lose sight of the fact that he is a true freshman who at times is playing like a senior. Does he need to improve his outside shot, of course. That will come in time, ask Butler how he did as a freshman shooting the ball. Does he need to move the ball better on the perimeter against the zone, I think its a valid point. He has at times fell in love with the ball out front and that has an effect on the offense's ability to gain some rythm and I also think this has effected some of our perimeter guys, especially Lewis.

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butler. struggled for a bit tonite against a gaurd who was quicker than him. didnt shot well from the floor, but what really stuck out to me was late in the game butler made a pass and when the ball came back to him the "shell" was late in rotating , butler saw this attacked the rim missed his shot got fouled and sunk both of his fts.
This is the key for Butler.....be AGRESSIVE ON OFFENSE. Lets be patient with Jamar, he spent his first two years being the PG and running the team with the ball in his hands, now he has had to transition to playing without the ball, that is a huge transition for a player who has never had to before in his career. It is going to take some time. When he stays aggresive and looks to penetrate is when he is at his best.

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cook. didnt play his best game. continues to not keep up his defensive intensity. he shows up with solid d one trip down the floor and then looks lost on the next one. thats the reason he doesnt play more. that being said, did they show the bump/push/hit that he took? interesting stuff, cook was being grabbed held and pushed all night. i saw a couple of real cheap elbows and punches into his body.
Lets be honest.....when Cook gets more consistent on defense, he will be starting.....period. I think right now this team needs his offense and he needs more minutes. He is a difference maker out there, he makes plays. I expect him to be starting by the end of the year.

My game thoughts after a night's rest:

1. Physical play, welcome to the Big Ten freshman. Great learning experience for the young guys. Refs were pretty consistent, not to much to complain about. And we finally figured out that being aggressive on offense was going to be rewarded by the refs -- hope we learn a bit quicker next time out.

2. Perimeter defense is horrible. end of story. No backside rotation and if there was, it was late. A breakdown on fundamentals of contesting shots, 5-6 times we sailed by shooters with just a head or shot fake. This must be fixed, every team will stretch the defense in order to take Oden away from the basket. I agree, and it's baffling given Matta's consistency in fielding teams who play excellent perimeter D. Our perimeter D has regressed terribly in my opinion since the beginning of the year. (Perhaps that's a result of better opposition.)

3. Rebounding was better but not great. Oden with two hands would probably improve this area. Indiana is not a great rebounding team, lets see how we do against Illinois and Wisconsin. Actually, IU had been outrebounding their opposition by about 7 per game I believe, so they are a better Windex team than you may think.

4. Anyone seen Ivan Harris? Let me know when he decides to start scoring again. We need his perimeter ability. Ivan had a couple of key plays in the brief time he played; his And-1 on a tough turnaround was really important in the first half.

5. I will give some props to the crowd who showed up. It is not where we want it to be, but if anyone thinks in just one year the arena will look like Duke or UNC, you are crazy. It takes time to develop that sort of environment, not to mention, seating changes. Given the architecture of the Schott, it will never be a Cameron. But my daughter, who is a Dukie, attended the Iowa State game with me and said our crowd was FAR superior to the usual Tarheel home crowd (i.e., except against Duke). She also said that non-student fans in Cameron behave pretty much like the Buckeye crowd. As an old fart who nonetheless cheers like a madman at all Buckeye hoop contests, I get kind of tired of all the criticisms.
 
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I should make it clear that I'm not intending to knock Conley. I think he's a tremendous player, and more like a billionaire's Fuss-Cheatham. His passing talents and ability to protect the basketball are amazing for a freshman. He has a knack for getting to the basket unlike any other point guard I've seen in the country so far this year.

But, I think the offense would run more efficiently if Butler ran primarily at the point and Conley provided energy off the bench. I think a backcourt of Butler, Lewis and Cook brings the same outside threat that lifted this team in countless games last year, and peaked out against Carolina.
 
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StadiumDorm;704052; said:
I should make it clear that I'm not intending to knock Conley. I think he's a tremendous player, and more like a billionaire's Fuss-Cheatham. His passing talents and ability to protect the basketball are amazing for a freshman. He has a knack for getting to the basket unlike any other point guard I've seen in the country so far this year.

But, I think the offense would run more efficiently if Butler ran primarily at the point and Conley provided energy off the bench. I think a backcourt of Butler, Lewis and Cook brings the same outside threat that lifted this team in countless games last year, and peaked out against Carolina.

I appreciate what you are saying, but I respectfully disagree. Over the years, I've noted that tOSU has been at the top of its game when the PG can penetrate and dish or take the easy layup. Scoonie was the best at this. Conley appears to be much stronger in this regard than Butler.
 
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I am one of Butler's biggest complimentors, and was backing him the whole time he was struggling thru his freshmen year and a little into his sophmore year. Junkie can attest that I kept telling him that Butler would be fine. Even with all that said, there is one reason why Butler isnt the pg and isnt because he is not that good or the staff thinks he is better at the 2g. It is plain and simply because of one Mike Conley who came in and has taken that position therefore in order to get the best team in the eyes of the coaches on the court they moved Butler to the 2g.

Butler is slowly progressing and will be fine, and same with Conley who has all the tools you want in a pg. And don't group him in the BFC category, b/c they are not even in the same league.
 
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crazybuckfan40;704080; said:
And don't group him in the BFC category, b/c they are not even in the same league.

I think I said they weren't in the same league. But he carries the same shooting liability at a position I don't think this team can afford to be weak at. I mean, who do you want to have the ball at foul-shooting time? Conley or Butler? It's not close.

In my opinion, Conley does two things a lot better than Butler: 1. Drive; 2. Dish. Butler does two things a lot better than Conley: 1. Shoot; 2. Move the ball. So it's really a matter of preference, and I prefer a point guard who can shoot and move the ball. The other two qualities are important, but this team has playmakers who can make up for the fact that Butler doesn't have Conley's playmaking ability. Maybe if this team didn't have Cook and Lewis, my preference would be different.
 
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StadiumDorm;704088; said:
I think I said they weren't in the same league. But he carries the same shooting liability at a position I don't think this team can afford to be weak at. I mean, who do you want to have the ball at foul-shooting time? Conley or Butler? It's not close.

In my opinion, Conley does two things a lot better than Butler: 1. Drive; 2. Dish. Butler does two things a lot better than Conley: 1. Shoot; 2. Move the ball. So it's really a matter of preference, and I prefer a point guard who can shoot and move the ball. The other two qualities are important, but this team has playmakers who can make up for the fact that Butler doesn't have Conley's playmaking ability. Maybe if this team didn't have Cook and Lewis, my preference would be different.

I know what you are saying, but his shooting ability is not even close to as bad as BFC. Yes he is shooting 19 % but he is only averaging 1.5 attempts a game. He is still shooting at 52% overall which tells me that his ability to shoot is not affecting his driving and secondly when given time he will knock it down. He has only attempted 21 3's all season so I don't think that is a big enough sample size to really get a great read on. He missed that one last nite, that was right on line that I thought was going in. I also think that his free throw shooting while not what you want from a pg at 64% I think it will improve. His ability to get to the hoop and find the open guys averaging 6.6 asst./game is uncanny. He is also averagaing almost 3 steals/game which is a very impressive stat.
 
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junkie i think you and i are essentially agreeing with each other right? obviously some small stuff, but more clairfication than disagrement and stuff? right?


conley. ive said it before ill say it again. everyone of these players has things you can pick at them for. its that simple. the knocks he has at this point.

1 tendecy to dribble to much. essentially a nervous habit, this will improve.
2 tendecy to take an extra dribble. this is an adjustment every young player goes through. its adjusting to a quicker game.
3 his shot. this is his biggest liability. we saw it against florida, thats the only time it has truely hurt him. they went under everything, a handful of times in that game he passed on wide open threes. i think its a confidence thing like i said before. i think shooting and shooting and shooting and being assertive are key. from what i see its a nice shot, but he has an oh shit feeling, almost like he stands out there and is expecting someone else to be wide as open. if he gets the wide look, fire away. unless, as you say he has what 21 three point attempts, maybe he doesnt have the green light...


butler v conley. both have strengths and both weaknesses, but they are different style players. its a good thing to have. especially a young guy learning from a season vet. if you dont want to compete for a postion, i wouldnt want you playing with me, or on my team...
 
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