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#6 Ohio State 74, Indiana 67 (Final)

For those of us who have seen Oden play for a long time, it is very obvious that the immobilizer on his right wrist severely hampers him. I thought last night that was more evident that ever before. As the game becomes more physical in the B10 the inability to actually grip the ball with both hands becomes a larger problem. Prior to this season Greg scored almost all of his non-dunk points with his right hand and he basically cannot use it now. Several times last night I saw rebounds that he normally would bring down but could not get a grip on the ball. Hopefully he will get the thing removed soon, but I know he is planning on wearing it for a while unless something changes.

That said -- he had 21 last night with only his off hand. If his right hand gets to 100% (or even 90%) he will dominate the B10.
 
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For those of us who have seen Oden play for a long time, it is very obvious that the immobilizer on his right wrist severely hampers him. I thought last night that was more evident that ever before. As the game becomes more physical in the B10 the inability to actually grip the ball with both hands becomes a larger problem. Prior to this season Greg scored almost all of his non-dunk points with his right hand and he basically cannot use it now. Several times last night I saw rebounds that he normally would bring down but could not get a grip on the ball. Hopefully he will get the thing removed soon, but I know he is planning on wearing it for a while unless something changes.

That said -- he had 21 last night with only his off hand. If his right hand gets to 100% (or even 90%) he will dominate the B10.
i noticed it more so against coppin st, he had acouple of easy balls he couldnt grasp that got away. last night he made all of those plays. he lost some balls in traffic, that happens. in the end this is the largest blessing for a kid like greg if he ever gets 100 again. this will be like kareem with the no dunking, something that youll hear and read about, something of legend...
 
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jimotis4heisman;703810; said:
i noticed it more so against coppin st, he had acouple of easy balls he couldnt grasp that got away. last night he made all of those plays. he lost some balls in traffic, that happens. in the end this is the largest blessing for a kid like greg if he ever gets 100 again. this will be like kareem with the no dunking, something that youll hear and read about, something of legend...

I didn't see the Coppin St. game, but some of the balls he lost in traffic last night he won't lose with two hands to grip the ball. He has strong hands when able to use them. I do agree this will be a blessing in the end, and Greg sees that as well.
 
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jimotis4heisman;703734; said:
40 you can pick on every kid out their on the floor. the point is the easiest to pick on to me. how much time is the ball in his hands? he touches it 8 seconds min on every trip down the court.

the dribbling too much. it wasnt so obvious but rewatch some of the game against the gators. bigger, quicker teams expose that. he was just a little late. granted that extra dribble can prevent tos, but i tend to think he dribbles too much and has a tendency put the ball on the floor an extra time.

I gotcha on the dribbling thing, at times it seems like with that extra dribble he is setting the defender up. There was one time where he went through the lane last nite and dribbled the ball off his leg, I was suprised at the extra dribble he took, but after watching it, it made the defender make a decision and the path to the lane opened up, but he lost the ball.

the shot. or lack of. if he knocks down a few they cant sag so far off him. sure when they are man up on him when he was the ballit may make it harder for him to drive, but when the ball is swung to him it actually makes it easier for him to attack the rim, his man is farther off him and away from the basket playing the drive of the man with the ball.

as i said you can knit pick all day on any of the kids. the kid can play no questions.

Exactally, he is getting better, and I don't think the shot is that big of a concern. I saw the stat on bn today that 2 of the best pgs in the nba Tony Parker and Chris Paul are career 22% and 31% 3 point shooters. Pretty telling stat IMO.

only staying two years. i have no idea how long conley or anyone will be around. i dont know how guys prouject to the next level. thats not my thing. i do know cook oozes nba to me and oden is a lottery pick. honestly i could careless and hope the could too. sure it would be nice to have a big time super star in the league, or even better have a couple of all stars to throw out there with redd but i could care less about the garbage of basketball they call the national basketball association theses days (thats disagreement number two for sure).

At this point, the NBA will love a pg that can control the game like Conley. After this year and next his name will be at the top of all the charts, whether he would go or not is another question, but his game translates real well.

In early mocks for the next draft Cook is slotted at #10. He has NBA written all over him. Just hope we can get the best out of him while he is here. Also enjoy these guys why we can.

perm def. i see some switching but im seeing a lot of hard hedging, i think it goes back to the reasons earlier. a combo of all of them. what percentage are other teams actually shooting from three land?

It has really just became more of a problem as of late, b/c of the teams shooting lights out. I think perm. def is sometimes more a fluke and depends on how good the team is shooting. I really think the main question comes down to Oden hedging on screens and picking up silly fouls, or the team not rotating while Oden retreats to his man.

also im all for attacking zones, im not really a fan of standing around and shooting teams out of the zone. attack it, kick for the jumper, dish to a guy going to the rim. dump it out for the open 3.


Totally agree here.
 
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MaxBuck;703732; said:
Well, you sure can't count me among your troop. I think Mike Conley was the most important player for the Buckeyes last night, and overall he was the best player on the floor. He took the game over in the last 5 minutes; his court vision is almost too good to be believed. On a night when Buckeyes' perimeter shooting was off (you could see it even in the shootaround), Conley allowed the Bucks to establish a powerful inside game by virtue of his penetration and passing.

Perfect? Of course not. But damn good.

When trying to figure why this team struggles in the half-court set, I always come back to Conley. He can make unbelievable plays and his vision is spectacular. But I question his ability to run an offense.

I know a lot of people have hypothesized that the offense needs to get used to Oden. I don't buy that. Matta ran an offense last year with a big guy that was pretty good down low and it didn't seem to affect the guys on the perimeter.

It just seems that Lewis and Butler have disappeared lately. I think if you watch this team closely enough, you'll see that they're just not involved in the offense at all. Players are just standing around watching Conley wait to see if he can take his man off the dribble.
 
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StadiumDorm;703835; said:
When trying to figure why this team struggles in the half-court set, I always come back to Conley. He can make unbelievable plays and his vision is spectacular. But I question his ability to run an offense.

I know a lot of people have hypothesized that the offense needs to get used to Oden. I don't buy that. Matta ran an offense last year with a big guy that was pretty good down low and it didn't seem to affect the guys on the perimeter.

It just seems that Lewis and Butler have disappeared lately. I think if you watch this team closely enough, you'll see that they're just no involved in the offense at all. Players are just standing around watching Conley wait to see if he can take his man off the dribble.

Lewis hasnt asserted himself in terms of taking the ball to the hole. He did that last nite and played a much better game. Butler seems to be getting more confidence back and even took the ball to the hole a couple times last nite. You also have to factor in that ball is being spread out between more players with Oden back and Cook getting his shots, and Hunter taking his few. It seems like they are finally settling into their role with Oden on the court and when their spots are there, and Conley seems to be able to find the open guy and the hot hand.

As for Matta running an offense with a big guy in the middle last year, that was a completely different team and these guys are adjusting to their roles.

As for Conley taking the ball to the hole, he seems to be finishing more than he is missing and he seems to have no problem dishing the ball for open shots with his 9 assists.
 
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stadium dorm in dead on here. not saying he isnt a good player, but lack of a perm shot, or confidence in the shot and the fact he dribbles too much is tough to overlook by me.

Conley's lack of a perimeter shot is really hurting us in our half court sets, its unbelievable how much the defense sags off of him and dares him to take the outside shot. That being said, I know that his shooting will come in time.

i felt a turning point in the game was when matta went to the more athletic line up and let his horses run. my old coach (it seems like i quote the guy in about every other one of these) used to say race horses run and ponies prance. mattas choice to dictate and go athletic was a very nice coaching call in my eyes.

Dead on right here. We continue to be a more fluid offensive team when Oden is not on the floor and when we went small last night with Hunter playing the 5, it puts extreme pressure on the defense to come out and play us on the perimeter and allows us to penetrate with ease and we saw that last night. Its a dilema right now for Matta, how do you get the best team on the court and play to your strengths? Its a nice problem to have and I think the further we go, the chemistry between Oden and everyone else will improve. I think some of problem on the offensive side is that the perimeter guys are looking to much to dump it in and not just take their shots within the flow of the offense and penetrate when it is available.

hunter, continues to improve, dont kid yourself he is still raw and his hands are average. but what im seeing here is a kid who is improving by leaps and bounds. has really shown he can steal minutes at the five and playing him at the four makes this team long athletic and defensively imposing.

Hunter has made some strides on the offensive end, I personally would like to see him be more physical on defense and focus on the rebounding. I guess I am being critical here, but I see a potential All-Big Ten pick next year if he continues to develop at this pace.

oden. im to the point were i just try and enjoy every moment of it. i have yet to be overly impressed with him. that being said i have to keep telling myself hes playing with one hand. his inability to snap his wrist, use his thumb and get a good grasp on the ball almost scares me, in the good kind of way. took a beating tonight physically, you saw it work for the gators, youll see it all b10 season. also 9 of 10 from the line...with his left hand (i didnt see any righties tonight but im still 99.9 sure i saw one against coppin state)

Its hard to be critical of a guy who is playing with his off hand. It is absolutely scary to think what he can do with 100% use of his right hand. He dominates the paint on defense and draws fouls on the offensive end, just an unbelievable difference maker when he is on the court.

lighty. matta showed confidence in the kid and show his willingness put him in as a finisher, sure he might have been saving cook for ot, but he still had the confidence to put him in there. he saw limited number of minutes but continued to play well. i still feel he will be a very good player but just insnt there yet. also i said it when he missed his two fts on the shooting foul that it could have been huge. luckily it wasnt.

Lighty has not gotten the minutes of some of the other guys, but he has been solid. I think he is still trying to find his role on this team and I also think by the end of the year he will contribute more on the offensive end.


lewis. played 30 minutes tonite. had a nice game, on the def end of the court he still is a weakness of the team in that regard. at this point if i had to project his role i would say it diminishes as the year progresses. that being said ron is the type of kid who could be huge for the team late in the year. veteran player who can step up when needed. but he seems to be a little to "me" for my taste on the offensive end. if he moved the ball more he would open up his own game slashing to the hoop. hes got the drive and kick so often, or the drive and dump.

Lewis baffles me really, he has the ability to simply score in bunches on the offensive end, but since the return of Oden, he seems to be hesitant to take the shot or penetrate in the lane. I don't agree that his role will diminish, I think it will increase as we get deeper in the Big Ten. He came up with a key three point bucket late last night. He has never been a great defensive player and lets face it, he never will. He is a scorer who needs to get back to what made him so dangerous in the first place, penetration. I am almost to the point where I would rather see Lewis coming off the bench, where he was very effective last year and have Cook starting.


conley. i mentioned above about the shot and the dribbling, what you cant question is his ability to move the ball and ability to push the floor.

Its hard to be critical of a PG who simply does not turn the ball over. I agree that he does have areas of improvement, but lets not lose sight of the fact that he is a true freshman who at times is playing like a senior. Does he need to improve his outside shot, of course. That will come in time, ask Butler how he did as a freshman shooting the ball. Does he need to move the ball better on the perimeter against the zone, I think its a valid point. He has at times fell in love with the ball out front and that has an effect on the offense's ability to gain some rythm and I also think this has effected some of our perimeter guys, especially Lewis.

butler. struggled for a bit tonite against a gaurd who was quicker than him. didnt shot well from the floor, but what really stuck out to me was late in the game butler made a pass and when the ball came back to him the "shell" was late in rotating , butler saw this attacked the rim missed his shot got fouled and sunk both of his fts.

This is the key for Butler.....be AGRESSIVE ON OFFENSE. Lets be patient with Jamar, he spent his first two years being the PG and running the team with the ball in his hands, now he has had to transition to playing without the ball, that is a huge transition for a player who has never had to before in his career. It is going to take some time. When he stays aggresive and looks to penetrate is when he is at his best.

cook. didnt play his best game. continues to not keep up his defensive intensity. he shows up with solid d one trip down the floor and then looks lost on the next one. thats the reason he doesnt play more. that being said, did they show the bump/push/hit that he took? interesting stuff, cook was being grabbed held and pushed all night. i saw a couple of real cheap elbows and punches into his body.

Lets be honest.....when Cook gets more consistent on defense, he will be starting.....period. I think right now this team needs his offense and he needs more minutes. He is a difference maker out there, he makes plays. I expect him to be starting by the end of the year.

My game thoughts after a night's rest:

1. Physical play, welcome to the Big Ten freshman. Great learning experience for the young guys. Refs were pretty consistent, not to much to complain about.

2. Perimeter defense is horrible. end of story. No backside rotation and if there was, it was late. A breakdown on fundamentals of contesting shots, 5-6 times we sailed by shooters with just a head or shot fake. This must be fixed, every team will stretch the defense in order to take Oden away from the basket.

3. Rebounding was better but not great. Oden with two hands would probably improve this area. Indiana is not a great rebounding team, lets see how we do against Illinois and Wisconsin.

4. Anyone seen Ivan Harris? Let me know when he decides to start scoring again. We need his perimeter ability.

5. I will give some props to the crowd who showed up. It is not where we want it to be, but if anyone thinks in just one year the arena will look like Duke or UNC, you are crazy. It takes time to develop that sort of environment, not to mention, seating changes.
 
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I am happy with the way the Bucks played theis first Big 10 game against Indiana. This was a good team to break in against. I think they need to be more fluid (In tune) on Offense and need to work on defending the trey. Rotating that is.
Over all a good win.
 
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OSUBasketballJunkie;703869; said:
My game thoughts after a night's rest:

1. Physical play, welcome to the Big Ten freshman. Great learning experience for the young guys. Refs were pretty consistent, not to much to complain about.

Best officiated game I have ever seen against Indiana. Maybe because Ed Hightower wasn't doing it. Seems like we actually got some breaks for a change. At least the bad calls were not all against us.

2. Perimeter defense is horrible. end of story. No backside rotation and if there was, it was late. A breakdown on fundamentals of contesting shots, 5-6 times we sailed by shooters with just a head or shot fake. This must be fixed, every team will stretch the defense in order to take Oden away from the basket.

I like Oden's enthusiasm, but he has no business outside the arc on D. Picked up a really dumb foul out there last night. I thought the team adjusted well down the stretch. Probably should have extended the D earlier when Indiana started heating up.

3. Rebounding was better but not great. Oden with two hands would probably improve this area. Indiana is not a great rebounding team, lets see how we do against Illinois and Wisconsin.

I don't see this team ever being dominant on the boards. Oden cannot be the only answer, although he is a big difference maker in this department.

4. Anyone seen Ivan Harris? Let me know when he decides to start scoring again. We need his perimeter ability.

Easily the most frustrating player since Fuss-Cheatam (or however you spell it). BTW, saw him on the bench for the Coppin St game. Was he just hanging out or is he an official member of the staff?

5. I will give some props to the crowd who showed up. It is not where we want it to be, but if anyone thinks in just one year the arena will look like Duke or UNC, you are crazy. It takes time to develop that sort of environment, not to mention, seating changes.

I thought the crowd sounded awesome on TV. BIG improvement over Coppin St. Nice to see the fans step it up for Big 10 competition. It was good to hear the crowd, but not be annoyed by it (like watching Puke).
 
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bkochmc;703918; said:
Reminded me of the Treg Lee / Perry Carter days.
ahh, i remember the game where perry carter came down with a rebound with two or three puny guards trying to take the ball away from him. the fans and analysts got a great kick out of that. that team was so much physically stronger than the other teams. about a year ago i saw one of their games on espn classic. they looked so much less strong than i remember them being; although, they were much stronger than their opponents. it's amazing how much the athlete's physique has changed in just fifteen years.

i also remember perry carter juking his defender by faking a pass just over the guy's shoulder. the guy took the fake hook, line, and sinker. easy bucket for perry. but, boy, you are right... those two could rattle the rim.
 
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OSU_Buckguy;703926; said:
ahh, i remember the game where perry carter came down with a rebound with two or three puny guards trying to take the ball away from him. the fans and analysts got a great kick out of that. that team was so much physically stronger than the other teams. about a year ago i saw one of their games on espn classic. they looked so much less strong than i remember them being; although, they were much stronger than their opponents. it's amazing how much the athlete's physique has changed in just fifteen years.

i also remember perry carter juking his defender by faking a pass just over the guy's shoulder. the guy took the fake hook, line, and sinker. easy bucket for perry. but, boy, you are right... those two could rattle the rim.

That group is the first team I remember watching so I don't remember many specific plays... I just remember they could throw it down with the best back then, especially Lee's tomahawk dunks... a couple of Hunter's dunks reminded me of that last night.
 
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