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how much of the talk about lacking toughness after last year's game with TTUN also had to do with our OL?

i know the defense got schooled, but i'm now wondering if our OL issues go back to last year?
I thought the main talk was the OL play! Especially the viral tweet of Munford getting destroyed by Hutchinson 1 on 1. The OL got blamed for being soft as much if not more than the defense. And I for one had the biggest concern with the OL, and would they be able to control the LOS and open holes for the RBs. And again, the toughness is being put into question, and for good reason. And the excuse isn't the talent level or recruiting, because scUM is using 3 and 4stars, and imposing their will. OSU has 4 and 5stars, and can barely get 1 yard on 3rd and 4th downs
 
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Film Studies:





Heading to Illinois this time of year is never easy, and the Ohio State Buckeyes learned this in their 21-7 win over Northwestern. In conditions with 35 mile per hour winds and rain, the Buckeyes were forced to win on the ground this week, and once again did not look pleasant doing it.

Early in the game the Buckeyes tried to keep their passing offense involved, forcing the ball through the air with little success. With the winds blowing at such high speeds, the Buckeyes’ passing game was rendered useless early on in the matchup. Ohio State ran the ball 36 times to only 26 passes, and in the first half starting running back Miyan Williams averaged only two yards per carry. The weather and lack of run game success put Ryan Day into an uncomfortable position as a play-caller, constraining what the Buckeyes’ offense was able to do.

“I’ve never been around conditions like this. I don’t know what the numbers show, but there must have been 30-mile-an-hour winds. And if you ever tried playing golf in 30-mile-an-hour winds, it’s hard to get off the tee, forget throw a football. We saw this coming, so we had a plan,” Ryan Day said regarding the weather on Saturday.

Despite the weather in Evanston, Ill. – and Ohio State knowing they would need to run the ball – the running game had another sub-par effort, not to steal Ryan Day’s golf reference. Three games in a row the Buckeyes struggled to find any consistency running the football. The reasons were multiple in the failures on Saturday, but the late success in the matchup provides a little evidence that there can be success moving forward.
 
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I thought the main talk was the OL play! Especially the viral tweet of Munford getting destroyed by Hutchinson 1 on 1. The OL got blamed for being soft as much if not more than the defense. And I for one had the biggest concern with the OL, and would they be able to control the LOS and open holes for the RBs. And again, the toughness is being put into question, and for good reason. And the excuse isn't the talent level or recruiting, because scUM is using 3 and 4stars, and imposing their will. OSU has 4 and 5stars, and can barely get 1 yard on 3rd and 4th downs
I guess what I remember are the plays last year where the D was getting gashed... or got gashed on a couple of big plays. But, yes... Hutchinson was also having his way, all day.

And I hear (and agree with) what you're saying about excuses... Day calls it "loser talk" or whatever, but it seems that every possible thing that could be cited as a reason why a play or a quarter or a game didn't go as planned (on offense) has been paraded out.

Whether it's nagging injuries (like the teams we're facing doesn't have them), or the "well, everybody can't be perfect on every play and every assignment... and it's really complicated", to "you have consider that this performance was because of once-a-century bad weather" (like the snow last year at TSUN), or "the chain gang didn't drop the chain which led to a freak accident" (because, you know, penn state and happy valley and hostile atmosphere), or "they were putting 8 guys in the box on every play" (because, umm, it would be illegal if we try and neutralize that by putting as many guys on the OL), or "they were doing a great job putting hands on our receivers at the line" (as if this is a new thing that Iowa invented just for that game), or whatever. There seems to be an unending list of things that get trudged out after every sub-par performance.

I just don't buy into this string of bad luck. Something different every week. So I agree with Day that it's loser talk.

Maybe we'll know more what went down after the season, but, in the meantime nothing to do but "trust the coaches" I guess. Maybe there are locker room issues. Maybe there are philosophical differences between Wilson and Frye. I don't know, but there's something preventing this group to consistently produce at the level where, on paper, it should be producing.

And before anybody points out that this is still the #1 offense in the country, what I'd say is that that position meant squat last year, and will again mean squat on Nov 26th this year.

/rant
 
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I still think OSU is holding back on the O. I am predicting a 5 alarm missile attack in the Game.

I can be wrong... but as Gen Z say's...I am feeling some sort of way.

Unless there are 40 mph winds.
unless the other team is taking up a whole quarter for each of its drives. one way to neutralize the five alarm missile attack is to put an insanely loooooong timer on fire button.
rutgers and arkansas state showed how that kinda could work.
 
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unless the other team is taking up a whole quarter for each of its drives. one way to neutralize the five alarm missile attack is to put an insanely loooooong timer on fire button.
rutgers and arkansas state showed how that kinda could work.
OSU is going to throw every fucking missile at TTUN's D. OSU has been waiting all year for that game.
 
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I don't think he meant just passing by missile attack. I think (hope!) they've been holding back some in the run game, as well, and it could well be part of the barrage. Why give the Whining Harboogers anything on film that you don't have to and don't need it to beat the rest of the B1G? Fuck those clowns... hell is coming.
 
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I'm not going to pretend to know more than I do, which isn't much. But there are some things that past OSU coaches have said about holding things back that should always be in the back of our minds.

Chief among these, and I don't remember who said it, is that in order to break a tendency you have to establish a tendency. I don't know how much our current coaches do this, but the coach who said it certainly did it. Other coaches may not have said it, but late in the year it was pretty clear that they did it.

Did you notice that I said I don't know how much our current coaches do this? I should have said I don't know IF they do this. So the point of this post is not to say that anyone else is wrong. What I will say though is that there are a great many people, both in the media and on this board, that are way too sure of things that they clearly don't know much about.

Most of us have seen this for decades (centuries in @BB73 's case): Someone will say, "We do X too much. We should do Y instead." Then, when the coach breaks the tendency that he so firmly established, it works. The person who said the above then struts about like a rooster taking credit for the sunrise. People usually let them take their victory lap. Then when they return from their victory lap they wonder why all of the pats on the back they get make their arm hurt. (To those of you from that state up north, I'm implying that the only person patting them on the back is themselves)

There are other reasons that coaches hold things back apart from establishing tendencies. I'm not going to enumerate them, partly because I would be sure to miss a fair few things, but mostly because those things are not the point.

I don't mind people talking Xs and Os. I do it myself from time to time. Talking Xs and Ox is not the problem. Telling people that you have answers that our current coaches don't have: that's a problem. While it's happened in the past, I doubt anyone here currently would explicitly say that they are smarter than our current HC and coordinators. What does happen, more often in the media, but also sometimes here, is that people will say things that make the implication unmistakable.

Talk Xs and Os. Criticize coaching decisions (the coaches themselves have done that lately). But when posting on this board, realize that you are posting on this board and that no one who posts on this board knows as much about football as people who coach FBS football for a living. Also realize that many of the people who do coach FBS football for a living get taken to school by Ryan Day and Kevin Wilson on a weekly basis. You are not smarter than them. You do not know things they don't.

Most of this is directed at people in the media though. As I've said elsewhere recently, part of sports media is made up of the sweepings of the coaching industry. While many of them are more knowledgeable than most fans, it is hilarious to see them criticize the guys at the top of an industry that they would still be in if they were sufficiently competent.
 
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It seems to me, and I know much less than DBB, that when you have a relatively limited or even average to above offensive portfolio you show as much as you can throughout the year to give teams something to gameplan about; to make them allocate resources to as much as you can in the hope that you can water down their preparation and they can't just focus on the couple of things you're really good at. That's the traditional/conventional/historical coaching mindset, I think.

My hope, though, and I think I'm right is that Day&Co have way more bullets in the gun, so much so that they don't think they need to show you things to make you worry about them just so they can hope to be more successful with Dave or an RPO, etc. You haven't seen it, you have no idea what it is or from where it's coming and you're prepping against ghosts; ghosts who don't care if you're worried or not because it's happening.
 
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It seems to me, and I know much less than DBB, that when you have a relatively limited or even average to above offensive portfolio you show as much as you can throughout the year to give teams something to gameplan about; to make them allocate resources to as much as you can in the hope that you can water down their preparation and they can't just focus on the couple of things you're really good at. That's the traditional/conventional/historical coaching mindset, I think.

My hope, though, and I think I'm right is that Day&Co have way more bullets in the gun, so much so that they don't think they need to show you things to make you worry about them just so they can hope to be more successful with Dave or an RPO, etc. You haven't seen it, you have no idea what it is or from where it's coming and you're prepping against ghosts; ghosts who don't care if you're worried or not because it's happening.

This is exactly the kind of discussion that I'm ok with. That's one approach that a lot of successful coaches have taken. There are a lot of advantages to it. I can't say it's wrong. Other coaches who are also smarter than me have held things back to the maximum extent possible. Others, like Urban Meyer, have added things throughout the year based mostly on the experience level of his team and their ability to learn new things. All are approaches that have been taken by successful coaches. Anyone who wants to support one of these approaches is more than welcome to do so. All I ask is that they simply tell us why they think so and how they came to that conclusion. And if they can refrain from saying the coach is disgusting and despicable for doing things any other way that would be a bonus.
 
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@DaddyBigBucks and @RugbyBuck i get what you guys are saying and i agree… trust the guys getting paid millions to coach.

having said that, don’t we have a tendency, when the team is struggling, to think maybe the coaches must be holding something back? and while i know that the guys who are paid millions to coach probably know how to play this kind of gamesmanship, in my memory i don’t remember a late-season game where suddenly we are blown away by what the coaches have been tinkering with secretly all year.

my point is that this “they’re holding something back” refrain usually is just fans’ hopeful thinking.
 
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@DaddyBigBucks and @RugbyBuck i get what you guys are saying and i agree… trust the guys getting paid millions to coach.

having said that, don’t we have a tendency, when the team is struggling, to think maybe the coaches must be holding something back? and while i know that the guys who are paid millions to coach probably know how to play this kind of gamesmanship, in my memory i don’t remember a late-season game where suddenly we are blown away by what the coaches have been tinkering with secretly all year.

my point is that this “they’re holding something back” refrain usually is just fans’ hopeful thinking.
Yes it tends to be. Sometimes it's True see Tressel in the game.

Sometimes it's not see Harbaugh's unwillingness to even work on throwing the damn ball when he can road grate teams into oblivion
 
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@DaddyBigBucks and @RugbyBuck i get what you guys are saying and i agree… trust the guys getting paid millions to coach.

having said that, don’t we have a tendency, when the team is struggling, to think maybe the coaches must be holding something back? and while i know that the guys who are paid millions to coach probably know how to play this kind of gamesmanship, in my memory i don’t remember a late-season game where suddenly we are blown away by what the coaches have been tinkering with secretly all year.

my point is that this “they’re holding something back” refrain usually is just fans’ hopeful thinking.

I agree; it is definitely more fan wishful thinking than anything else.

I think not having Stroud run until it's necessary is just trying to keep him healthy, not holding something back so as to not show it.

Far more of the offensive struggles is Day's insistence of working on the running game when the passing game is what the opponent's defense is allowing. And I don't think Day is wrong to do that; I think it should work anyway and should work if the guards were not performing poorly in the run game the last 3 weeks. That's not holding something back so as to not show it; that's trying to work on a weakness.

@dragurd is right though. Tressel came out with an ultra-heavy 3 OT set against TTUN one year and just beat them to death with it; something they hadn't shown all year. And you're right too: that's the exception, not the rule.

My main point is that we as fans to a point, and the media to a vastly greater extent need to show a little more humility in discussing such things. As for what's being held back and why... As I said in my original post... I'm not even sure it's happening. I have hazarded a couple of guesses above as to why it might be happening, but I'm not sure of anything, other than I love the Buckeyes and hope they hang a hundred on the quitty cowards.
 
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I agree that it normally is wishful thinking nonetheless I’m thinking hopefully that this team, this year is different because of, at least, the following: 1) the depth of the offensive playbook and the talent level of not just one or two players; 2) the beatdown we took from scum last year; 3) Day’s saying that we train everyday for them; 4) the vanilla playcalling lately; and Bonus) Knowles saying they’ve been working on shit all year that we haven’t even seen.

If you can get to The Game at #2 without giving away much and then start to open the gun bays on those clowns, it’s more than just them. Day’s got to be thinking past, but not overlooking, that to the two, hopefully, CFP games, as well. Get uga and the rest on their back foot, as well. Kirby Smart after the scum dumpster fire: holy shit, what the fuck was that?
 
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