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2022-2023 Ohio State Men's Basketball

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Thump said:
My first move to a winning program, get out of the Schottenstein Morgue and build a 3-4 story vertical arena that seats 11-13,000 where every side hangs over the court.

Think St. John’s but steeper!
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Steeper!!! I can only imagine. I visited there in high school and swear the upper seats needed seat belts! I was afraid to lean forward...
 
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Mike80 said:
In the end, you can choose to be miserable and bitch about something you have literally not one iota of a chance to change or affect, or you can shrug your shoulders and hope they bounce back next year and yes, if this hasn't turned around at all, its time for a new voice.
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To me - that's just a weak take. When Cooper was getting molly whopped annually by Michigan, do you tell the fans, "Guys, we can't change anything so just shrug your shoulders and hope they bounce back next year"? Clearly the answer to that was no. The fanbase decided not to accept those results, the customer base influences the decision makers, and a change was made.

Obviously, that can be done also in basketball and clearly is currently trending in the same direction. It is at the point that not just the local, but the national take (outside of Jeff Goddman), is that Holtmann is near the end of his rope. Does that mean after this year, next year, who knows, but thinking the fan bases support doesn't in some way influence the stability of a coaches situation is untrue.

The longer you let a program slide in reverse, the harder it is to get it back to where it belongs, and like you yourself said, this is easily a Top 25 job and we are nowhere near Top 25 results.
 
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Thump said:
My first move to a winning program, get out of the Schottenstein Morgue and build a 3-4 story vertical arena that seats 11-13,000 where every side hangs over the court.

Think St. John’s but steeper!
Click to expand...
Lord have mercy I almost threw up just reading that? I've jumped out of planes numerous times in my life but something about falling off a cliff or St John's Arena stairs always got my legs freaking shaking.
 
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bigdog3300 said:
To me - that's just a weak take. When Cooper was getting molly whopped annually by Michigan, do you tell the fans, "Guys, we can't change anything so just shrug your shoulders and hope they bounce back next year"? Clearly the answer to that was no. The fanbase decided not to accept those results, the customer base influences the decision makers, and a change was made.

Obviously, that can be done also in basketball and clearly is currently trending in the same direction. It is at the point that not just the local, but the national take (outside of Jeff Goddman), is that Holtmann is near the end of his rope. Does that mean after this year, next year, who knows, but thinking the fan bases support doesn't in some way influence the stability of a coaches situation is untrue.

The longer you let a program slide in reverse, the harder it is to get it back to where it belongs, and like you yourself said, this is easily a Top 25 job and we are nowhere near Top 25 results.
Click to expand...
Unfair comparison. No matter how much we all want to see a basketball national championship, and believe me it's everyone on this board, you will never get the same passion from hoops as you do football. Never gonna happen so just dont do those comparisons. That doesn't mean we dont want the best team n the country though.
 
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bigdog3300 said:
To me - that's just a weak take. When Cooper was getting molly whopped annually by Michigan, do you tell the fans, "Guys, we can't change anything so just shrug your shoulders and hope they bounce back next year"? Clearly the answer to that was no. The fanbase decided not to accept those results, the customer base influences the decision makers, and a change was made.

Obviously, that can be done also in basketball and clearly is currently trending in the same direction. It is at the point that not just the local, but the national take (outside of Jeff Goddman), is that Holtmann is near the end of his rope. Does that mean after this year, next year, who knows, but thinking the fan bases support doesn't in some way influence the stability of a coaches situation is untrue.

The longer you let a program slide in reverse, the harder it is to get it back to where it belongs, and like you yourself said, this is easily a Top 25 job and we are nowhere near Top 25 results.
Click to expand...

To address it by paragraph:
1. The programs are wholly different in expectations. Besides that point, Cooper was given 13 seasons. He wasn't even meeting the overall program's historical norms either, which is vastly different from what is going on under CH. Weak or not, that's reality. Reality is the only thing I'm trying to deal with here.

2. Feel free to post where someone nationally has said he's near the end of his rope. Everything I've seen (granted my views have been limited due to my kids baseball, softball and wrestling activities) have been: be patient.

3. And where does Ohio State belong? If the guy was meeting those standards, and he mostly was from a program historical perspective, 1 bad year shouldn't sink him. Two years absolutely, as I've maintained this whole time.

Bad years are going to happen. I would have seen this one coming myself given the amount of roster turnover. It is what it is, and if that's a weak take, so be it. It's also likely to be the prevailing take until next season by the only person who truly matters in this equation.
 
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OHSportsFan said:
Okpara saying the quiet part out loud finally.

Last game, I tried to kindly say this team makes losing plays but really it’s a…non-winning attitude or desire. Just a losing mentality from the overall makeup of the team.

anyway, we’ve reached the calling teammates out phase, so things are really swell.

Click to expand...

This is not the first time the locker room has been lost and is an ongoing concern in the Holtman tenure.
 
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OHSportsFan said:
Okpara saying the quiet part out loud finally.

Last game, I tried to kindly say this team makes losing plays but really it’s a…non-winning attitude or desire. Just a losing mentality from the overall makeup of the team.

anyway, we’ve reached the calling teammates out phase, so things are really swell.

Click to expand...


Ultimately the players have to sort that part out. Either you have it or you don't.

Honestly I think the football team was lacking that kind of "dog" mentality at times this year too and certainly last year.
 
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OHSportsFan said:
Okpara saying the quiet part out loud finally.

Last game, I tried to kindly say this team makes losing plays but really it’s a…non-winning attitude or desire. Just a losing mentality from the overall makeup of the team.

anyway, we’ve reached the calling teammates out phase, so things are really swell.

Click to expand...

Much nicer than I've been in game threads hence the self time-outs. If Zed were 100% I think he had some in him but the injury has more than taken the starch out of him.
 
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Someone with a better long term memory can help me out here, but....seem to recollect that when Jay Burson went down (against Iowa?), and ended up wearing a halo for months (years?), tOSU was doing very well, but after the accident, lost almost the rest of the season. Well, thankfully no one on current team has had such a horrific accident. IMHO, the transfers, who thought they could come here and win a Nati or somesuch, elevating their draft position, have decided not gonna happen, so put it in cruise. tOSU freshmen are playing maybe the best of the team, and with the five coming in next year, will provide hole-fillers for the other starters. Not trying to cast any shade on current roster, so maybe someone can soften my opinions. Holtmann isn't going anywhere, as Dave Biddle says "there's $20 million reasons" why Holtmann will return. Maybe in a couple of years if team doesn't improve (and the buy-out diminishes over time) it'll happen, but from my calculations, 4 frosh this year, plus 5 next year, plus two holdovers (Zed and 'the other guy') equals 11 scholarship players on roster. So, if for the 2024 season, that would be 4 available to bring them to 13. And current frosh will be juniors, with some good seasoning.....not accounting for any transfers out. PS, an 'understanding' between AD and coach means absolutely nothing if not in writing. Verbal kills. Trusting someone's word in this day and age can be deadly. Holtmann is too good a coach (his history says so, not me) to remain unemployed for long. Go Bucks!
 
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Mike80 said:
To address it by paragraph:
1. The programs are wholly different in expectations. Besides that point, Cooper was given 13 seasons. He wasn't even meeting the overall program's historical norms either, which is vastly different from what is going on under CH. Weak or not, that's reality. Reality is the only thing I'm trying to deal with here.

2. Feel free to post where someone nationally has said he's near the end of his rope. Everything I've seen (granted my views have been limited due to my kids baseball, softball and wrestling activities) have been: be patient.

3. And where does Ohio State belong? If the guy was meeting those standards, and he mostly was from a program historical perspective, 1 bad year shouldn't sink him. Two years absolutely, as I've maintained this whole time.

Bad years are going to happen. I would have seen this one coming myself given the amount of roster turnover. It is what it is, and if that's a weak take, so be it. It's also likely to be the prevailing take until next season by the only person who truly matters in this equation.
Click to expand...

I'd end it with this - you see this as his only bad season, I do not. Below .500 in conference the last five years. Freshman questioning the desire of his own team publicly. I don't blame Okpara because nothing else has worked, but still it's clearly not a good look for the head coach. The list keeps getting longer. If he turns it around next year, I'll gladly eat that crow with ketchup and a Tab. We all want the same thing at the end of the day but seeing different views right now.
 
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