2021 CFB Playoff Discussion

[Jaxbuck]

Let's go through the posts for this past season and see how many times someone on here posts about how (insert any Power 5 team) doesn't play anybody 'cause the (insert any conference) is shit. Let's look at how much bitching is done because the SEC gets two teams in the playoffs, or how the polls always favor (insert SEC team here) because a loss is a win. You want the Buckeyes to get the loss is a win boost? Let's see a Big Ten win the CFP more than once in 7 years. Conference does matter. Just ask all the teams that left the Big 12.

You are confusing sports message boards/sports talk radio and what really drives the CFP.

Strength of conference means dick for us.

 

[BB73]

Auto-bids for conference champs instantly put all the emphasis on the CCG and threaten rivalry games. I want no part of anything that diminishes the rivalry games and regular season any more than it already has.

I disagree with this, and I’m surprised to see you say it. An 8-team playoff, starting with 4 CCGs, leaves the system close to what it is now. There would be 4 teams left today, but they wouldn’t have been selected by a committee under the influence of ESPN.

In 2002, tOSU needed to win one game after The Game to win the NC. In 2006, after the most anticipated version of The Game ever, only 1 more win would have been needed. In 2014, with CCGs and a 4-team playoff 3 wins after The Game were needed.

A 12-team playoff with teams selected after the CCGs would require tOSU to win 4 or 5 games after The Game to win the NC. Talk about diminishing the importance of The Game. Expanded playoffs are the main thing diminishing the regular season and the importance of The Game.

Taking only 4 CCG winners doesn’t make things worse they they are now, I think it would be an improvement. Going to a 12-team playoff model would make the regular season closely resemble the NFL, where a large percentage of fans only watch because of their fantasy teams.

There’s no going back to fewer games. The best we can hope for is retaining the 4-team model, or going to 8 with the CCGs being round 1. I could live with a 6-team model that took the 5 P-5 CCG Winners and 1 non-P5 team, with 2 teams getting byes. Any other expanded playoff model further reduces the regular season and leaves too much control to a stupid committee under the influence of ESPN.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

If UC and TTUN play for the national championship, I may just jump off the ledge

That would be awful. I’d be up there on the ledge with you and may just push you off.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I disagree with this, and I’m surprised to see you say it. An 8-team playoff, starting with 4 CCGs, leaves the system close to what it is now. There would be 4 teams left today, but they wouldn’t have been selected by a committee under the influence of ESPN.

In 2002, tOSU needed to win one game after The Game to win the NC. In 2006, after the most anticipated version of The Game ever, only 1 more win would have been needed. In 2014, with CCGs and a 4-team playoff 3 wins after The Game were needed.

A 12-team playoff with teams selected after the CCGs would require tOSU to win 4 or 5 games after The Game to win the NC. Talk about diminishing the importance of The Game. Expanded playoffs are the main thing diminishing the regular season and the importance of The Game.

Taking only 4 CCG winners doesn’t make things worse they they are now, I think it would be an improvement. Going to a 12-team playoff model would make the regular season closely resemble the NFL, where a large percentage of fans only watch because of their fantasy teams.

There’s no going back to fewer games. The best we can hope for is retaining the 4-team model, or going to 8 with the CCGs being round 1. I could live with a 6-team model that took the 5 P-5 CCG Winners and 1 non-P5 team, with 2 teams getting byes. Any other expanded playoff model further reduces the regular season and leaves too much control to a stupid committee under the influence of ESPN.

The minute you have an auto bid you have the scenario where OSU has locked up the East before The Game and has to consider resting guys who are dinged up for The Game because wining the CCG is an auto bid. Losing to tsun doesn't matter for the CFP.

That's the nightmare scenario to me. People say "an OSU coach would never do that et cetc etc" but that's bullshit. It would come up eventually. Now apply that to all rivalry games played the week before the CCG's and thus my concern for the regular season and rivalry games.

For the record, Steve Spurrier rested starters against FSU the first year there was even a CCG but years before there was a CFP.

 

[Onebuckfan]

The minute you have an auto bid you have the scenario where OSU has locked up the East before The Game and has to consider resting guys who are dinged up for The Game because wining the CCG is an auto bid. Losing to tsun doesn't matter for the CFP.

That's the nightmare scenario to me. People say "an OSU coach would never do that et cetc etc" but that's bullshit. It would come up eventually. Now apply that to all rivalry games played the week before the CCG's and thus my concern for the regular season and rivalry games.

For the record, Steve Spurrier rested starters against FSU the first year there was even a CCG but years before there was a CFP.

He’ll I think the coaching staff was more worried about winning the CFP than beating scUM. They have O experience with scUM being a real threat to our dominance till they were.

 

[Jake]

I could live with a 6-team model that took the 5 P-5 CCG Winners and 1 non-P5 team, with 2 teams getting byes. Any other expanded playoff model further reduces the regular season and leaves too much control to a stupid committee under the influence of ESPN.

I agreed with your entire post until you got to byes. I don't want a committee awarding two teams a free win at the expense of the other four. It's another reason why I oppose a 12 team field. Too many teams and four of them get free wins.

Four teams or eight teams. I prefer eight. But that's it.

 

[cincibuck]

Strength of conference means dick for us.

If conference means dick to BP - then why are there so many postings about conferences, ND not being in a conference and therefore not playing in a CCG, about the public and media perception of conferences? And why are we always bitching about the SEC? Could it be that the perception of a conference has an effect on where the Buckeyes end up in a poll at any time of the year? And what do people and the media base those perceptions on? Given the lack of home-and-home games between Big Ten teams and teams from the South, I'd say it comes down to CFP results.

2021 Playoff Semifinal at the Rose Bowl Game
No. 1 Alabama 31, No. 4 Notre Dame 14 Playoff Semifinal at the Sugar Bowl
No. 3 Ohio State 49, No. 2 Clemson 28 CFP National Championship: Miami
No. 1 Alabama 52, No. 3 Ohio State 24
2020 Playoff Semifinal at the Peach Bowl
No. 1 LSU 63, No. 4 Oklahoma 28 Playoff Semifinal at the Fiesta Bowl
No. 3 Clemson 29, No. 2 Ohio State 23 CFP National Championship: New Orleans
No. 1 LSU 42, No. 3 Clemson 25
2019 Playoff Semifinal at the Cotton Bowl Classic
No. 2 Clemson 30, No. 3 Notre Dame 3 Playoff Semifinal at the Orange Bowl
No. 1 Alabama 45, No. 4 Oklahoma 34 CFP National Championship: Bay Area
No. 2 Clemson 44, No. 1 Alabama 16
2018 Playoff Semifinal at the Rose Bowl Game
No. 3 Georgia 54, No. 2 Oklahoma 48 (2OT) Playoff Semifinal at the Sugar Bowl
No. 4 Alabama 24, No. 1 Clemson 6 CFP National Championship: Atlanta
No. 4 Alabama 26, No. 3 Georgia 23 (OT)
2017 Playoff Semifinal at the Peach Bowl
No. 1 Alabama 24, No. 4 Washington 7 Playoff Semifinal at the Fiesta Bowl
No. 2 Clemson 31, No. 3 Ohio State 0 CFP National Championship: Tampa
No. 2 Clemson 35, No. 1 Alabama 31
2016 Playoff Semifinal at the Orange Bowl
No. 1 Clemson 37 No. 4 Oklahoma 17 Playoff Semifinal at the Cotton Bowl Classic
No. 2 Alabama 38, No. 3 Michigan State 0 CFP National Championship: Arizona
No. 2 Alabama 45, No. 1 Clemson 40
2015 Playoff Semifinal at the Rose Bowl Game
No. 2 Oregon 59, No. 3 Florida State 20 Playoff Semifinal at the Sugar Bowl
No. 4 Ohio State 42, No. 1 Alabama 35 CFP National Championship: North Texas
No. 4 Ohio State 42, No. 2 Oregon 20

So we have the Big Ten at 7 appearances, 3 wins four losses, 1 Championship, 1 second place
The ACC + ND at 12 appearances, 5 wins 7 losses, 2 Championships 2 second place
The SEC at 13 Appearances, 4 championships, 3 second place

You can give a dick about conference, but I think a large portion of the public looks at the record and thinks that the SEC has proven itself stronger than the ACC and the Big Ten. Until Big Ten teams begin getting into the finals and winning championships, that perception is not going to change. That's why I will root for Michigan in the CFP, because it they get blown out by Alabama or Georgia it will have a direct connection to where Ohio State is placed in the polls throughout 2022 and how difficult it will be for any 1 loss Big Ten team to get into the playoffs.

 

[Bucklion]

If conference means dick to BP - then why are there so many postings about conferences, ND not being in a conference and therefore not playing in a CCG, about the public and media perception of conferences? And why are we always bitching about the SEC? Could it be that the perception of a conference has an effect on where the Buckeyes end up in a poll at any time of the year? And what do people and the media base those perceptions on? Given the lack of home-and-home games between Big Ten teams and teams from the South, I'd say it comes down to CFP results.

2021 Playoff Semifinal at the Rose Bowl Game
No. 1 Alabama 31, No. 4 Notre Dame 14 Playoff Semifinal at the Sugar Bowl
No. 3 Ohio State 49, No. 2 Clemson 28 CFP National Championship: Miami
No. 1 Alabama 52, No. 3 Ohio State 24
2020 Playoff Semifinal at the Peach Bowl
No. 1 LSU 63, No. 4 Oklahoma 28 Playoff Semifinal at the Fiesta Bowl
No. 3 Clemson 29, No. 2 Ohio State 23 CFP National Championship: New Orleans
No. 1 LSU 42, No. 3 Clemson 25
2019 Playoff Semifinal at the Cotton Bowl Classic
No. 2 Clemson 30, No. 3 Notre Dame 3 Playoff Semifinal at the Orange Bowl
No. 1 Alabama 45, No. 4 Oklahoma 34 CFP National Championship: Bay Area
No. 2 Clemson 44, No. 1 Alabama 16
2018 Playoff Semifinal at the Rose Bowl Game
No. 3 Georgia 54, No. 2 Oklahoma 48 (2OT) Playoff Semifinal at the Sugar Bowl
No. 4 Alabama 24, No. 1 Clemson 6 CFP National Championship: Atlanta
No. 4 Alabama 26, No. 3 Georgia 23 (OT)
2017 Playoff Semifinal at the Peach Bowl
No. 1 Alabama 24, No. 4 Washington 7 Playoff Semifinal at the Fiesta Bowl
No. 2 Clemson 31, No. 3 Ohio State 0 CFP National Championship: Tampa
No. 2 Clemson 35, No. 1 Alabama 31
2016 Playoff Semifinal at the Orange Bowl
No. 1 Clemson 37 No. 4 Oklahoma 17 Playoff Semifinal at the Cotton Bowl Classic
No. 2 Alabama 38, No. 3 Michigan State 0 CFP National Championship: Arizona
No. 2 Alabama 45, No. 1 Clemson 40
2015 Playoff Semifinal at the Rose Bowl Game
No. 2 Oregon 59, No. 3 Florida State 20 Playoff Semifinal at the Sugar Bowl
No. 4 Ohio State 42, No. 1 Alabama 35 CFP National Championship: North Texas
No. 4 Ohio State 42, No. 2 Oregon 20

So we have the Big Ten at 7 appearances, 3 wins four losses, 1 Championship, 1 second place
The ACC + ND at 12 appearances, 5 wins 7 losses, 2 Championships 2 second place
The SEC at 13 Appearances, 4 championships, 3 second place

You can give a dick about conference, but I think a large portion of the public looks at the record and thinks that the SEC has proven itself stronger than the ACC and the Big Ten. Until Big Ten teams begin getting into the finals and winning championships, that perception is not going to change. That's why I will root for Michigan in the CFP, because it they get blown out by Alabama or Georgia it will have a direct connection to where Ohio State is placed in the polls throughout 2022 and how difficult it will be for any 1 loss Big Ten team to get into the playoffs.

One, I think you’re mixing opinions here on BP with reality. And 2, your argument basically comes down to thinking that dUMb winning the title somehow benefits OSU or the B1G in the eyes of the people it matters to…the selection committee. Now you’re welcome to that opinion, but I don’t think it matters one way or the other. And that’s because ESPN has a direct financial stake in the SEC that it doesn’t have in any other conference. And considering they control >95% of the media noise (no one gives a fuck about Fox), the SEC will be king where it matters until that changes. And that’s not going to change. I watched the first 5 minutes of the “selection show” and almost vomited listening to Herbies snarky bullshit about “what about the narrative that G5’s will never get in” and “what about the narrative that the committee was trying to avoid SEC matchups in the final” and all the other bullshit they were spewing.

So go ahead and root for Michigan…but as long as the SEC controls the media and the committee keeps picking 2 SEC teams any chance it gets, the results of the next 10 playoffs won’t matter.

 

[Jaxbuck]

If conference means dick to BP - then why are there so many postings about conferences,....

I think a large portion of the public looks at the record and......that perception...... is not going to change.

Public opinion means nothing. The CFP and ESPN are about money. Adults finding ways to generate and divy up hundreds of millions of dollars. Sports fan's opinions on things mean fuck all to them. They push buttons to get people riled up about SOS, conference strength and all that bullshit.

they get blown out by Alabama or Georgia it will have a direct connection to where Ohio State is placed in the polls throughout 2022

It absolutely will not have any impact on OSU in the polls in '22. OSU getting beat in the Rose Bowl might but tsun's performance has nothing to do with OSU.

As long as OSU takes care of it's own business, it's fine.

 

[BB73]

If conference means dick to BP - then why are there so many postings about conferences, ND not being in a conference and therefore not playing in a CCG, about the public and media perception of conferences? And why are we always bitching about the SEC? Could it be that the perception of a conference has an effect on where the Buckeyes end up in a poll at any time of the year? And what do people and the media base those perceptions on? Given the lack of home-and-home games between Big Ten teams and teams from the South, I'd say it comes down to CFP results.

2021 Playoff Semifinal at the Rose Bowl Game
No. 1 Alabama 31, No. 4 Notre Dame 14 Playoff Semifinal at the Sugar Bowl
No. 3 Ohio State 49, No. 2 Clemson 28 CFP National Championship: Miami
No. 1 Alabama 52, No. 3 Ohio State 24
2020 Playoff Semifinal at the Peach Bowl
No. 1 LSU 63, No. 4 Oklahoma 28 Playoff Semifinal at the Fiesta Bowl
No. 3 Clemson 29, No. 2 Ohio State 23 CFP National Championship: New Orleans
No. 1 LSU 42, No. 3 Clemson 25
2019 Playoff Semifinal at the Cotton Bowl Classic
No. 2 Clemson 30, No. 3 Notre Dame 3 Playoff Semifinal at the Orange Bowl
No. 1 Alabama 45, No. 4 Oklahoma 34 CFP National Championship: Bay Area
No. 2 Clemson 44, No. 1 Alabama 16
2018 Playoff Semifinal at the Rose Bowl Game
No. 3 Georgia 54, No. 2 Oklahoma 48 (2OT) Playoff Semifinal at the Sugar Bowl
No. 4 Alabama 24, No. 1 Clemson 6 CFP National Championship: Atlanta
No. 4 Alabama 26, No. 3 Georgia 23 (OT)
2017 Playoff Semifinal at the Peach Bowl
No. 1 Alabama 24, No. 4 Washington 7 Playoff Semifinal at the Fiesta Bowl
No. 2 Clemson 31, No. 3 Ohio State 0 CFP National Championship: Tampa
No. 2 Clemson 35, No. 1 Alabama 31
2016 Playoff Semifinal at the Orange Bowl
No. 1 Clemson 37 No. 4 Oklahoma 17 Playoff Semifinal at the Cotton Bowl Classic
No. 2 Alabama 38, No. 3 Michigan State 0 CFP National Championship: Arizona
No. 2 Alabama 45, No. 1 Clemson 40
2015 Playoff Semifinal at the Rose Bowl Game
No. 2 Oregon 59, No. 3 Florida State 20 Playoff Semifinal at the Sugar Bowl
No. 4 Ohio State 42, No. 1 Alabama 35 CFP National Championship: North Texas
No. 4 Ohio State 42, No. 2 Oregon 20

So we have the Big Ten at 7 appearances, 3 wins four losses, 1 Championship, 1 second place
The ACC + ND at 12 appearances, 5 wins 7 losses, 2 Championships 2 second place
The SEC at 13 Appearances, 4 championships, 3 second place

You can give a dick about conference, but I think a large portion of the public looks at the record and thinks that the SEC has proven itself stronger than the ACC and the Big Ten. Until Big Ten teams begin getting into the finals and winning championships, that perception is not going to change. That's why I will root for Michigan in the CFP, because it they get blown out by Alabama or Georgia it will have a direct connection to where Ohio State is placed in the polls throughout 2022 and how difficult it will be for any 1 loss Big Ten team to get into the playoffs.

Florida State used to dominate the ACC. Has Clemson getting stronger been a good thing for Florida State?

Oklahoma has dominated the Big XII since Texas isn’t ‘back’. I don’t think Texas getting back to the top-5 would have been good for Oklahoma for the past several years.

Auburn won a title in 2010. Then the Saban juggernaut really took off. Has that been good for Auburn the last 10 years?


And Fuck Michigan!!

 

[pnuts34]

Some many gems! Thus channel never misses

 

[cincibuck]

One, I think you’re mixing opinions here on BP with reality. And 2, your argument basically comes down to thinking that dUMb winning the title somehow benefits OSU or the B1G in the eyes of the people it matters to…the selection committee. Now you’re welcome to that opinion, but I don’t think it matters one way or the other. And that’s because ESPN has a direct financial stake in the SEC that it doesn’t have in any other conference. And considering they control >95% of the media noise (no one gives a fuck about Fox), the SEC will be king where it matters until that changes. And that’s not going to change. I watched the first 5 minutes of the “selection show” and almost vomited listening to the SEC will be king where it matters until that changes. And that’s not going to change.and all the other bullshit they were spewing.

So go ahead and root for Michigan…but as long as the SEC controls the media and the committee keeps picking 2 SEC teams any chance it gets, the results of the next 10 playoffs won’t matter.

"you’re mixing opinions here on BP with reality."
What reality would that be? Michigan beating the Buckeyes did not help the Buckeyes. I didn't say it did. But Michigan getting their ass kicked in the CFPs will hurt in terms of the public perception of the conference and therefore Ohio State. Michigan winning at least one of those games will boost the reputation of both the conference and Ohio State.

"in the eyes of the selection committee."
And you think the selection committee is impervious to public opinion? First, BP is not all of the public. Get out of Columbus and check public opinion on the season. I think you'll find that public opinion agrees with the committee's decisions on the final four. Had Michigan not clocked the Buckeyes and Alabama ripped Georgia a new asshole the final four would have probably had Georgia at 1, the Buckeyes at 2. Cinci at 3, and either Alabama or ND at 4, in which case you'd think the committee and public opinion were both correct.

"...the media and the committee keeps picking 2 SEC teams..."
And how does the SEC control the media? And why does the committee pick two SEC teams? 1. Because SEC teams have played extremely well in the CFBs. 2. Because the two Big Ten teams that have been in the playoffs have frequently been blown out. 3. Tell me that Notre Dame didn't benefit from being in a conference with Clemson. Tell me that Clemson's string of good teams and success in the CFPs hasn't resulted in better rankings for ND, FSU, UNC, NC State, Pitt, and Miami, especially pre-season and the early weeks of the season.

"The SEC will be king where it matters until that changes. And that’s not going to change..." It's not going to change until Big Ten teams start winning more CFP games. Every game a Big Ten team loses in the CFPs adds to the public opinion that the conference is not as strong as the SEC and makes it just that much harder to get 2 Big Ten teams in the playoffs (and I'll submit that if the Auburn halfback dives to the ground with 1:20 left on the clock, Auburn wins the game and the possibility of Michigan and Ohio State get into the final four increases.

Yeah, if Ohio State takes care of business they'll get in the CFP. And why is that? Because the Big Ten brand has been established over a long period of time. Because public opinion believes that beating a Big Ten team takes effort (except Northwestern and Indiana). Because The Game draws eyes like few other college games can - and if Michigan were shit, those eyes would not be there because no one would care except Ohio State fans.

Finally, Herbie does not get his checks from Ohio State and his job is not to be a PR hack for the Buckeyes.

 

[Bucklion]

"you’re mixing opinions here on BP with reality."
What reality would that be? Michigan beating the Buckeyes did not help the Buckeyes. I didn't say it did. But Michigan getting their ass kicked in the CFPs will hurt in terms of the public perception of the conference and therefore Ohio State. Michigan winning at least one of those games will boost the reputation of both the conference and Ohio State.

"in the eyes of the selection committee."
And you think the selection committee is impervious to public opinion? First, BP is not all of the public. Get out of Columbus and check public opinion on the season. I think you'll find that public opinion agrees with the committee's decisions on the final four. Had Michigan not clocked the Buckeyes and Alabama ripped Georgia a new asshole the final four would have probably had Georgia at 1, the Buckeyes at 2. Cinci at 3, and either Alabama or ND at 4, in which case you'd think the committee and public opinion were both correct.

"...the media and the committee keeps picking 2 SEC teams..."
And how does the SEC control the media? And why does the committee pick two SEC teams? 1. Because SEC teams have played extremely well in the CFBs. 2. Because the two Big Ten teams that have been in the playoffs have frequently been blown out. 3. Tell me that Notre Dame didn't benefit from being in a conference with Clemson. Tell me that Clemson's string of good teams and success in the CFPs hasn't resulted in better rankings for ND, FSU, UNC, NC State, Pitt, and Miami, especially pre-season and the early weeks of the season.

"The SEC will be king where it matters until that changes. And that’s not going to change..." It's not going to change until Big Ten teams start winning more CFP games. Every game a Big Ten team loses in the CFPs adds to the public opinion that the conference is not as strong as the SEC and makes it just that much harder to get 2 Big Ten teams in the playoffs (and I'll submit that if the Auburn halfback dives to the ground with 1:20 left on the clock, Auburn wins the game and the possibility of Michigan and Ohio State get into the final four increases.

Yeah, if Ohio State takes care of business they'll get in the CFP. And why is that? Because the Big Ten brand has been established over a long period of time. Because public opinion believes that beating a Big Ten team takes effort (except Northwestern and Indiana). Because The Game draws eyes like few other college games can - and if Michigan were shit, those eyes would not be there because no one would care except Ohio State fans.

Finally, Herbie does not get his checks from Ohio State and his job is not to be a PR hack for the Buckeyes.

I was going to respond until I got to the last sentence…then I realized it wasn’t worth it.

 

[cincibuck]

Florida State used to dominate the ACC. Has Clemson getting stronger been a good thing for Florida State?

Oklahoma has dominated the Big XII since Texas isn’t ‘back’. I don’t think Texas getting back to the top-5 would have been good for Oklahoma for the past several years.

Auburn won a title in 2010. Then the Saban juggernaut really took off. Has that been good for Auburn the last 10 years?

And what do you, me, and most of the posters on BP except Gator and Big Woof bitch about? Wah, wah, Auburn isn't shit, why do they always get rated in the top 25 pre-season? Wah, wah, Florida State isn't shit, why do they always get rated early in the season? Wah, wah, those sheep humpers at aTm lose a game and they stay right where they were, Purdue loses and they drop 11? Wah, wah, Texas blows a 20 point lead to Okie and they only drop 2.

Conference perception helps. And let's take the other POV - look at what is going to happen to the public's perception of the Big 12 when Oklahoma is replaced by Cincinnati and Texas by Houston.

 

[jwinslow]

Finally, Herbie does not get his checks from Ohio State and his job is not to be a PR hack for the Buckeyes.

His job is to talk well without saying anything and to inflate what he is asked to inflate.

He gets in immature spats on his own time.