2018 QB Battle Discussion

[pnuts34]

Both turnovers for 6 points against back ups. Yes he had a great Michigan game and if I'm describing JT Barrett then give me another one of him because overall that turned out fine.

Yes Haskins isn't a statue by any means but he's like CJ in that it's hard for him to get going (once he does though he can move).

So let's settle...Dwayne is the better passer by not that much, Burrow is the better runner by not that much.

Now it boils down to who can protect the ball and who's the better leader. I have no idea who the better leader is (although UFM did talk about Burrow's improvement there if I recall) but anyone saying Dwayne isn't more turnover prone is kidding themselves. Notice I said "more" and not a turnover machine. He's not a turnover machine but so far when he makes a mistake it's been costly.

So right now I have it as followed personally...

Haskins: Arm
Burrow: legs and ball safety

To be decided: leadership

Whoever shows they can lead this team will be the guy. With Joe being older players just may default to Joe but we will have to find out.

Look at posts and listen to the opinions of Barrett being fine from the OU game on last season... most don't want "fine" again when we possibly have an actual QB on the roster and not another kid that runs and oh yeah will then throw it but be used as much as RBs. Barretts arm held the offense back a lot. And I can bet the majority of our WRs returned this season to work with a QB eith NFL talent in his arm. And that ain't Burrow.

And you're using your comparison of the 2 QBs based on drastically different scenarios. Haskins played in actual real, live games, you're using a 2 hand touch scrimmage to compare him to Burrow. Burrow didn't have an opposing team player breathing down his neck, nor did Burrow step in, against our biggest rival, down in the 4th and lead a comeback IN HOSTILE TERRITORY. ScUM wasn't playing 2 hand touch, nor was Haskins in a favorable position, and he excelled. To me, no argument

 

[Onebuckfan]

I just hope we have a clear starter and a backup..according to people here we don’t and that means trouble ahead ..

 

[bukIpower]

Look at posts and listen to the opinions of Barrett being fine from the OU game on last season... most don't want "fine" again when we possibly have an actual QB on the roster and not another kid that runs and oh yeah will then throw it but be used as much as RBs. Barretts arm held the offense back a lot. And I can bet the majority of our WRs returned this season to work with a QB eith NFL talent in his arm. And that ain't Burrow.

And you're using your comparison of the 2 QBs based on drastically different scenarios. Haskins played in actual real, live games, you're using a 2 hand touch scrimmage to compare him to Burrow. Burrow didn't have an opposing team player breathing down his neck, nor did Burrow step in, against our biggest rival, down in the 4th and lead a comeback IN HOSTILE TERRITORY. ScUM wasn't playing 2 hand touch, nor was Haskins in a favorable position, and he excelled. To me, no argument

Burrow played in plenty of games and did well in those moments too. So you're willing to base everything off of the scum game? An opportunity that Burrow hasn't had?

I'm going based off of all the performances and not just 1 game. Our back ups (rain or not) were reinstated against Illinois because of the fumble 6 by Haskins. Not saying that makes him a poor choice but it shows his highs are really high but has lower lows IMO.

Burrow isn't as gifted running the ball as JT and I don't think he will be incorporated as much running the ball.

Whoever is the better leader will be the deciding factor. To me that still seems like Burrow but we will have to see.

 

[buchtelgrad04]

Burrow played in plenty of games and did well in those moments too. So you're willing to base everything off of the scum game? An opportunity that Burrow hasn't had?

I'm going based off of all the performances and not just 1 game. Our back ups (rain or not) were reinstated against Illinois because of the fumble 6 by Haskins. Not saying that makes him a poor choice but it shows his highs are really high but has lower lows IMO.

Burrow isn't as gifted running the ball as JT and I don't think he will be incorporated as much running the ball.

Whoever is the better leader will be the deciding factor. To me that still seems like Burrow but we will have to see.

What is this based on?

 

[pnuts34]

Burrow played in plenty of games and did well in those moments too. So you're willing to base everything off of the scum game? An opportunity that Burrow hasn't had?

I'm going based off of all the performances and not just 1 game. Our back ups (rain or not) were reinstated against Illinois because of the fumble 6 by Haskins. Not saying that makes him a poor choice but it shows his highs are really high but has lower lows IMO.

Burrow isn't as gifted running the ball as JT and I don't think he will be incorporated as much running the ball.

Whoever is the better leader will be the deciding factor. To me that still seems like Burrow but we will have to see.

(Disclaimer: I'm continuing this heated discussion because it is the offseason, and there's not much to discuss outside of the starting QB and recruiting)
I'm not sure of the plenty of games that you say that Burrow has played in when he's played in 11 games and Haskins in 8. Comparing not just the scUM, but their entire OSU careers, Haskins has not only had more passing yards, attempts and completions, but he has only 1 INT and a much higher Comp%. And I am also going off of not only performance, but numbers.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/ohio-state/2017.html#passing::none

Maybe the staff doesn't use Burrows legs as much, but his arm isn't near the quality of Haskins, and that's just a fact that the entire staff has stated and also the team. I don't know how any fan can judge leadership traits when we're not in the locker room, but if you(or anyone for that matter) is questioning Haskins' leadership qualities and his approach to leading the team, this is from: https://www.landgrantholyland.com/2...o-state-football-dwayne-haskins-osu-qb-battle :
After the spring game, Haskins spoke to the media about the quarterback competition, and noted that even though the team can’t really do football stuff ahead of fall camp, that he’s taking his potential role as the leader of the Buckeyes seriously. From offseason workouts to working with his receivers on Saturday mornings, he focused on “showing the coaches that I’m dedicated and ready to be in”.

Organizing workouts with his offensive teammates is a good first step in creating chemistry on the field, as well as to show coaches how seriously he’s taking the opportunity to be the starter.

Also the fact that many OSU fans(and recruits a like) were clamoring for young Haskins to start over the uber-decorated Barrett last year, and not talking about the return of Burrow(who had similar stats in the 2017 spring game) says a lot. It's no knock on Burrow, but talent is talent, and it seemed after last season that the offensive staff wanted QBs in the athletic pocket passer mold. And it sure looks that way from a recruiting standpoint as well with Baldwin and possibly Gunnell for 2018 class.

 

[Bestbuck36]

Protect the ball and let the playmakers (RB's and WR's) win the game. That's what I want from my QB. Who ya got and no disclaimers needed, just the name? For me: Burrow

 

[bukIpower]

(Disclaimer: I'm continuing this heated discussion because it is the offseason, and there's not much to discuss outside of the starting QB and recruiting)
I'm not sure of the plenty of games that you say that Burrow has played in when he's played in 11 games and Haskins in 8. Comparing not just the scUM, but their entire OSU careers, Haskins has not only had more passing yards, attempts and completions, but he has only 1 INT and a much higher Comp%. And I am also going off of not only performance, but numbers.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/ohio-state/2017.html#passing::none

Maybe the staff doesn't use Burrows legs as much, but his arm isn't near the quality of Haskins, and that's just a fact that the entire staff has stated and also the team. I don't know how any fan can judge leadership traits when we're not in the locker room, but if you(or anyone for that matter) is questioning Haskins' leadership qualities and his approach to leading the team, this is from: https://www.landgrantholyland.com/2...o-state-football-dwayne-haskins-osu-qb-battle :
After the spring game, Haskins spoke to the media about the quarterback competition, and noted that even though the team can’t really do football stuff ahead of fall camp, that he’s taking his potential role as the leader of the Buckeyes seriously. From offseason workouts to working with his receivers on Saturday mornings, he focused on “showing the coaches that I’m dedicated and ready to be in”.

Organizing workouts with his offensive teammates is a good first step in creating chemistry on the field, as well as to show coaches how seriously he’s taking the opportunity to be the starter.

Also the fact that many OSU fans(and recruits a like) were clamoring for young Haskins to start over the uber-decorated Barrett last year, and not talking about the return of Burrow(who had similar stats in the 2017 spring game) says a lot. It's no knock on Burrow, but talent is talent, and it seemed after last season that the offensive staff wanted QBs in the athletic pocket passer mold. And it sure looks that way from a recruiting standpoint as well with Baldwin and possibly Gunnell for 2018 class.

1. I'm not heated... just all fun!

2. UFM talked about Burrow improving greatly with leadership if I recall this off season. Didn't mention Haskins.

3. I'd imagine both QBs will organize summer workouts.

4. Haskins also got to play earlier in games then Burrow. Played 2.5 quarters against UNLV and 1.5 against scum so no wonder Haskin has more stats.

5. Can any of us say without a doubt one is more talented then the other? I think this debate proves that neither have.

So then it's just who protects the ball and who can lead? I think Burrow protect a the ball better but now it's just who's the better leader.

 

[pnuts34]

1. I'm not heated... just all fun!

2. UFM talked about Burrow improving greatly with leadership if I recall this off season. Didn't mention Haskins.

3. I'd imagine both QBs will organize summer workouts.

4. Haskins also got to play earlier in games then Burrow. Played 2.5 quarters against UNLV and 1.5 against scum so no wonder Haskin has more stats.

5. Can any of us say without a doubt one is more talented then the other? I think this debate proves that neither have.

So then it's just who protects the ball and who can lead? I think Burrow protect a the ball better but now it's just who's the better leader.

I can see at this point, that Urban and staff have gone out of their way to compliment Burrow because they do want the kid here, and know that he can be a more able bodied backup, and I can see that being the reason for him talking about Burrow having improved leadership. Haskins has already led the team, and done it in a way that will seal him Buckeye lore. It just doesn't get any bigger than taking over in The Game, playing from behind, and actually outplaying the starting QB who set numerous OSU and B1G records.

QBs probably do set up summer workouts, but Haskins could quite possibly have a better relationship with the WRs, as he's played in actual games with them, they all raved about him in his RS year when he had to mimic Deshaun Watson for the CFP game, and he also was in the same class with Mack(also his roommate) and Victor.

But how can you say Burrow can protect the ball better, when he's barely played? It can't be purely based on his garbage time stats when the game is in doubt, and a spring scrimmage. Haskins has actual game time experience, and outside of playing in torrential rain(where from a number of fans' POV he still was able to sling the ball) where he fumbled the ball for 6pts and was benched, where was his negative play and turnover proneness?

Protect the ball and let the playmakers (RB's and WR's) win the game. That's what I want from my QB. Who ya got and no disclaimers needed, just the name? For me: Burrow

Haskins


This will be an interesting ride. Its obvious there's arguments to be made for both sides, and camps have already formed for both men. The beauty is, its a win/win for OSU

 

[Buckfan09]

Haskins.

Looks accurate in live action. Moments are not too big for him, can’t understate Michigan game performance. He has the team’s trust. Plenty of talent around will make this Buckeye offense great.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Something to consider; while I don't think you "manage the roster" at a position as critical as QB, with Saunders getting a scholarship 2 more spots have to open up between now and fall camp.

I'm think it's likely a Safety and another OL but who knows? Maybe they are well down the path with Burrow and that is why they gave the scholarship to Saunders?

Pure speculation on my part but something different to think/talk about (maybe).

 

[jwinslow]

Something to consider; while I don't think you "manage the roster" at a position as critical as QB, with Saunders getting a scholarship 2 more spots have to open up between now and fall camp.

I'm think it's likely a Safety and another OL but who knows? Maybe they are well down the path with Burrow and that is why they gave the scholarship to Saunders?

Pure speculation on my part but something different to think/talk about (maybe).

So far no one has seized the spot opposite Fuller, and if it isn't Pryor, he's probably the first backup. That makes for tough conversations for some backups.

LB & OL still have guys who are buried, and Browning/Werner are pushing.

I agree too that it's pretty unlikely that they keep both QBs. It's even more unlikely that they fail to lose 2 guys between the QB battle loser, LB, OL and random transfers (especially off-field stuff).

 

[Jaxbuck]

So far no one has seized the spot opposite Fuller, and if it isn't Pryor, he's probably the first backup. That makes for tough conversations for some backups.

LB & OL still have guys who are buried, and Browning/Werner are pushing.

I agree too that it's pretty unlikely that they keep both QBs. It's even more unlikely that they fail to lose 2 guys between the QB battle loser, LB, OL and random transfers (especially off-field stuff).

...and injuries

Maybe nothing to it but the Saunders thing makes me feel like they have a plan and aren't leaving it up to anyone to self select by screwing up off the field.

Who knows

 

[bukIpower]

I can see at this point, that Urban and staff have gone out of their way to compliment Burrow because they do want the kid here, and know that he can be a more able bodied backup, and I can see that being the reason for him talking about Burrow having improved leadership. Haskins has already led the team, and done it in a way that will seal him Buckeye lore. It just doesn't get any bigger than taking over in The Game, playing from behind, and actually outplaying the starting QB who set numerous OSU and B1G records.

QBs probably do set up summer workouts, but Haskins could quite possibly have a better relationship with the WRs, as he's played in actual games with them, they all raved about him in his RS year when he had to mimic Deshaun Watson for the CFP game, and he also was in the same class with Mack(also his roommate) and Victor.

But how can you say Burrow can protect the ball better, when he's barely played? It can't be purely based on his garbage time stats when the game is in doubt, and a spring scrimmage. Haskins has actual game time experience, and outside of playing in torrential rain(where from a number of fans' POV he still was able to sling the ball) where he fumbled the ball for 6pts and was benched, where was his negative play and turnover proneness?


Haskins


This will be an interesting ride. Its obvious there's arguments to be made for both sides, and camps have already formed for both men. The beauty is, its a win/win for OSU

Very well may be why coach has talked up Burrow but it could also be because they're genuinely excited for Burrow too.

Both Haskins/Burrow have played sparingly over 2 years now. Joe has yet to turn the ball over and Dwayne has. I'm not saying Haskins is a turnover machine but when he's made mistakes they've been 6 points the other way.

Just for fun here's their senior year in HS. Btw why the hell did Haskins only throw 117 passes? Talk about wasting a talent.

Burrow: 2 ints in 347 attempts
Haskins: 2 ints in 117 attempts

Couple this with no turnovers for Burrow the last two years and to me it's obvious who is more prone to turn the ball over. Neither turn the ball over a ton but again when Hakins has made mistakes they've been very costly.

Look Haskins no doubt showed out vs Scum and he's a great talent no doubt. To me though I just think Burrow has more to offer.

I think they're both very similar throwing the ball, Burrow has slightly better wheels, Burrow has the slight edge in avoiding turnover and I personally just think Burrow maybe gets things just a bit more due to having a father who coaches.

Either way as most of us agree we will be fine but IMO we will be horrendous losers if Burrow transfers. IMO it should be him but that injury (along with Haskins playing well vs scum) could be maybe too much to over come.

We need them both for next year. We really do. We've proven more often then not that we can't keep our QB healthy for an entire year and after watching Tate he is just not ready to be the back up.

 

[calibuck]

Great logic on both sides. Glad we're not tOSU players! Am sure they've got their opinions, but Urb has put the muzzle on them. Agree with bukipower, we NEED both of these QBs. Both are untested, except for Haskins fantastic quarter and a half against Meatchicken. Reasoning is that Martell is definitely not ready to be given the controls of this offense - yet. One of the two will start, and if they stall, then the other will come in and see what they can do, and that will continue until one can drive the team down the field consistently. Could be either one. That's why Urb is having the conundrum. Either could do it, but won't know until they are battle-tested on a consistent basis. Also agree with Jwin that we need both. Maybe a free MBA for Joe for one more year? Would work for me. PS, I believe that Dwayne has more velocity, but Burrow has more touch on his balls. Plus he's an Ahia kid. Go Bucks!

 

[jwinslow]