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2017 tOSU Offense Discussion

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GovTressel said:
I don't understand all the [Mark May]ting on the read-option. It's been consistently effective Meyers entire tenur.

Iowa forced JT to keep it, and he gained 4-8 yards on most of those carries...that's not a negative result.

It's like the empty set, TE motion in QB keeper on 3 and short--people bemoan it cause it's so obvious, but it's worked for 4 years.
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Well, like with all things..... people adapt, and it isn't a secret of how OSU likes to attack you...... and in crucial moments, it has also failed. JT is a serviceable runner in the read-option game but he lacks explosiveness. He isn't breaking free for 85 yard TD's like he once did against Minny.

Teams continue to take the ball out of our RB's hands and make JT run it, which equals more hits he continues to take. I think a lot of us on here just feel that we have 2 very talented RB's that are not touching the ball enough and they need to find more conventional ways of running the ball without getting our QB killed. His legs are nice to escape trouble and move the chains but he shouldn't be the focal part of our run game, which he has been in a lot of Urban's losses at OSU.

And to your last point..... The way this team is built, I would much rather see them line up in an "I" formation and run right up the middle on 3rd and 1 as opposed to spreading teams out in 4-5 wide sets and running a QB draw.
 
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GovTressel said:
I don't understand all the [Mark May]ting on the read-option. It's been consistently effective Meyers entire tenur.

Iowa forced JT to keep it, and he gained 4-8 yards on most of those carries...that's not a negative result.

It's like the empty set, TE motion in QB keeper on 3 and short--people bemoan it cause it's so obvious, but it's worked for 4 years.
Click to expand...
The zone read would be great if JT was a game breaker like Braxton but unfortunately he's not... Defenses know this and they're taking the ball out of JK's hands who's probably our best offensive player as a true freshman. The best players should always get max touches a game and while the zone read should always be apart of our offense you can't allow a defense to dictate who you want to get the ball to.

It just shouldn't be this easy to take away our best player on offense.
 
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bukIpower said:
The zone read would be great if JT was a game breaker like Braxton but unfortunately he's not... Defenses know this and they're taking the ball out of JK's hands who's probably our best offensive player as a true freshman. The best players should always get max touches a game and while the zone read should always be apart of our offense you can't allow a defense to dictate who you want to get the ball to.

It just shouldn't be this easy to take away our best player on offense.
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The results of the play don't support your view. The read-option has been the most consistently effective part of our offense for 5 years.
mendensa said:
Well, like with all things..... people adapt, and it isn't a secret of how OSU likes to attack you...... and in crucial moments, it has also failed. JT is a serviceable runner in the read-option game but he lacks explosiveness. He isn't breaking free for 85 yard TD's like he once did against Minny.

Teams continue to take the ball out of our RB's hands and make JT run it, which equals more hits he continues to take. I think a lot of us on here just feel that we have 2 very talented RB's that are not touching the ball enough and they need to find more conventional ways of running the ball without getting our QB killed. His legs are nice to escape trouble and move the chains but he shouldn't be the focal part of our run game, which he has been in a lot of Urban's losses at OSU.

And to your last point..... The way this team is built, I would much rather see them line up in an "I" formation and run right up the middle on 3rd and 1 as opposed to spreading teams out in 4-5 wide sets and running a QB draw.
Click to expand...

Why would you not want to see the play that works pretty much every time? I know it's comical sometimes because of the obviousness of what's coming...but it works.
 
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bukIpower said:
The zone read would be great if JT was a game breaker like Braxton but unfortunately he's not... Defenses know this and they're taking the ball out of JK's hands who's probably our best offensive player as a true freshman. The best players should always get max touches a game and while the zone read should always be apart of our offense you can't allow a defense to dictate who you want to get the ball to.

It just shouldn't be this easy to take away our best player on offense.
Click to expand...
The defensive alignment is nearly 100% going to determine where the ball goes. This is why on every level of football now you see the "check with me" and no huddles anymore. Sure we can design plays where JK gets more touches, but you are going to have to be creative.

Teams have loaded the box, and at times have used 8 players to out number us. You can't just line up with 6 to block 8, it is NEVER going to happen. Hence why defenses are doing what they are doing. The DCs job is to take away the Os best players and strength if possible. If that means selling out on the run because they don't feel like JT can beat them with his arm, then so be it, that is what we have seen.

It isn't as simple as just abandoning the read-option to get JK more touches, you are going to have to address being outnumbered in the box, which means bringing in another blocker a la TE in motion etc but then the defense just brings another down so you are still out numbered.

Sorry for the long post, but I am just growing tired of "just run the ball" and "get rid of the read option". It is way more complicated than that.
 
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Hstead said:
The defensive alignment is nearly 100% going to determine where the ball goes. This is why on every level of football now you see the "check with me" and no huddles anymore. Sure we can design plays where JK gets more touches, but you are going to have to be creative.

Teams have loaded the box, and at times have used 8 players to out number us. You can't just line up with 6 to block 8, it is NEVER going to happen. Hence why defenses are doing what they are doing. The DCs job is to take away the Os best players and strength if possible. If that means selling out on the run because they don't feel like JT can beat them with his arm, then so be it, that is what we have seen.

It isn't as simple as just abandoning the read-option to get JK more touches, you are going to have to address being outnumbered in the box, which means bringing in another blocker a la TE in motion etc but then the defense just brings another down so you are still out numbered.

Sorry for the long post, but I am just growing tired of "just run the ball" and "get rid of the read option". It is way more complicated than that.
Click to expand...
Yeah you're right but sometimes you just have to run into people and see how things go. You can't allow a defense to just take something away by their alignment because sometimes a defensive lineman goes inside and instead of staying with his assignment, sometimes a guy misses a tackle, and sometimes we can get a broken tackle to take it 10-15 yards.

There's so many run types that I don't even want to list them all again because I've done that 3-4 times in the past few weeks. However in saying that, we allow teams to take away things by alignment that we are known for doing. If teams are going to force us to throw or keep with the QB just by their alignment then that's setting us up for failure as we are supposed to be a power football team.

Obviously, I'm not saying you run into 10 man fronts consistently but with our 3 WR set at max we will see a 7-8 man front. Sometimes football is just as simple as go north and don't worry about numbers or getting a favorable match up. With JK being the back that needs the touches I'd be willing to run him a few times regardless of the numbers telling us to run with JT
 
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GovTressel said:
The results of the play don't support your view. The read-option has been the most consistently effective part of our offense for 5 years.


Why would you not want to see the play that works pretty much every time? I know it's comical sometimes because of the obviousness of what's coming...but it works.
Click to expand...
what are you talking about don't support my view? 6 carries for JK supports my view plenty.

Also yeah I'll believe the 2 back sets when I see it... so tired of hearing about the formation.
 
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bukIpower said:
what are you talking about don't support my view? 6 carries for JK supports my view plenty.

Also yeah I'll believe the 2 back sets when I see it... so tired of hearing about the formation.
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I'm with you 100% on Dobbins-6 carries for your most talented offensive player is inexcusable. I was referring to your disparagement of our use of the read option. Getting Dobbins the ball more on other plays and using the read option as the cornerstone of your offense are not mutually exclusive.
 
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Systems_id said:
Part of me wonders why Urban hasn't gone back to the more pro-style offense that was unstoppable during the natty run. Maybe he had no faith it would have worked once defenses knew what was coming?
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Pro style was most likely used because we didn't have a QB in Cardale to run the read option effectively, and his skill set was more pro style oriented. When they tried to integrate him into the read option, it didn't work for him. You don't just completely change your entire offense more than halfway through the season, this isn't a video game. And the pro style offense that Cardale ran was so simplified that it would have minimal effect for an entire season. And changing an offense doesn't just change the QB, but also the blocking scheme as well, can you imagine trying to install a completely new offense and blocking scheme against a hungry and rabid MSU team? I wouldn't want to.
Bama has been a pro style run oriented smash you in the mouth team for years. They implement a few spread options at times, but their offense is what it is at the end of the day and that's its identity. Any good team has an identity on offense to be successful. This year ND is a run oriented team, Clemson has always been a spread quick strike offense, MSU/Wisky/Iowa are pro style run oriented, etc, they are what they are and recruit accordingly.
Hstead said:
The defensive alignment is nearly 100% going to determine where the ball goes. This is why on every level of football now you see the "check with me" and no huddles anymore. Sure we can design plays where JK gets more touches, but you are going to have to be creative.

Teams have loaded the box, and at times have used 8 players to out number us. You can't just line up with 6 to block 8, it is NEVER going to happen. Hence why defenses are doing what they are doing. The DCs job is to take away the Os best players and strength if possible. If that means selling out on the run because they don't feel like JT can beat them with his arm, then so be it, that is what we have seen.

It isn't as simple as just abandoning the read-option to get JK more touches, you are going to have to address being outnumbered in the box, which means bringing in another blocker a la TE in motion etc but then the defense just brings another down so you are still out numbered.

Sorry for the long post, but I am just growing tired of "just run the ball" and "get rid of the read option". It is way more complicated than that.
Click to expand...
Fully agree! Creativity is the key to getting JK involved, our offense isn't going to morph into an I formation team. We can probably use some Pistol sets or misdirections from the shotgun to get JK going, but our offense is predicated on the QB reading the defense and making the best decision with the ball
 
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Urban talking in his presser about "they took JK away in the read option" and I'm going NO SHIT! I've been saying it a while now.

It isn't really tough to decide how to defend the read option vs Ohio State - do I want the tailback running at me or JT Barrett? Overplay Dobbins, make JT read "keep" and tackle him. Yeah, he'll get a few good runs. But he won't kill you, you'll wear him down - matters when it's time for him to throw - and Dobbins becomes a non factor.

Anyone who thinks we won't keep seeing that is kidding themselves. "JT had more carries than any back - fire Tim Beck!" Beck is gone. It's the read option. Like every other "OMG this is awesome!" offense, defenses eventually figure it out. You need to be able to deal with that, not keep trying it and thinking THIS week it'll work.
 
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