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2017 tOSU Offense Discussion

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Someone smarter than me scheme-wise explain this to me. In games where the defense makes JT have the read to carry the ball every time, do we not have a second option? I understand you have base run concepts, but we can't switch it up and just say OK, you're taking away our RB by forcing JT to keep, so we are just going to switch it up and out talent you (when yore playing an Iowa) and man up and run the football?
 
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Tanner said:
Someone smarter than me scheme-wise explain this to me. In games where the defense makes JT have the read to carry the ball every time, do we not have a second option? I understand you have base run concepts, but we can't switch it up and just say OK, you're taking away our RB by forcing JT to keep, so we are just going to switch it up and out talent you (when yore playing an Iowa) and man up and run the football?
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Not with Spread is my understanding. Ross Fulton kept bashing this over folks heads, that when you choose to run the spread you have to live with the QB read and for the most part my understanding the reads were the correct ones. As long as we play Urbans spread this will be a problem.
 
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AuTX Buckeye said:
Not with Spread is my understanding. Ross Fulton kept bashing this over folks heads, that when you choose to run the spread you have to live with the QB read and for the most part my understanding the reads were the correct ones. As long as we play Urbans spread this will be a problem.
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Fair enough. Just seems weird that it's that easy to basically remove our best offensive player from the football game but I'm no expert.
 
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Tanner said:
Fair enough. Just seems weird that it's that easy to basically remove our best offensive player from the football game but I'm no expert.
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Thats the problem with the spread when you're playing a defense that schemes well enough against it. The defense dictates your offense, and teams know to shut down the pitch to the RB and force JT to run it. So people are getting mad for the wrong reasons, JT can't(and shouldn't) pitch the ball because it would be a higher probability of a turnover. There's a reason few teams have won the NC with spread teams, unless they had dynamic QBs who could take over games (Cam Newton, Deshaun Watson, Tebow, I'd even include Cardale) and JT ain't that. There must be a more creative way that Wilson can get the hands in his RBs hands, he's done it before in Oklahoma with 2 RBs.


Another thing I noticed(and Bien mentioned it on LO10) is that the team didnt seem to be "hyped" up for this game. It seemed like
A. They thought they could just show up and Iowa would roll over
B. They were still spent from the Ped St. Game and watching themselves on ESPN all week and hearing how great they were.
Iowa came into this game hungry and feeling disrespected from the jump. hearing how OSU would just sleep walk through them and end up in the B1G championship. Ferentz seemed to play that angle up and we saw 2 teams in 2 very different mind sets. For all the talk of the 9 captains, it didnt seem they made much difference and our losses are starting to look all similar. This game is a clear reason why Sweeney and Clemson laughed at our offense and knew that they barely needed to game plan. And it seems once the offense doesn't work, they don't seem to have a plan b at halftime, just double down on what isn't working. This baffling strategy can also be inserted for the defense as well. This team doesn't seem to have enough hungry leaders to keep kids humble. Oklahoma and Iowa looked like arrogant teams thinking they could show up with 4 and 5star talent and the other team would be terrified. its the old adage about the bully, and then he gets punched in the nose and he's no longer the same. I saw little fight from the offense or defense after halftime, and not sure who that falls on more, the players on the field or the coaches who are paid a lot of money to make them succeed.
 
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pnuts34 said:
Thats the problem with the spread when you're playing a defense that schemes well enough against it. The defense dictates your offense, and teams know to shut down the pitch to the RB and force JT to run it. So people are getting mad for the wrong reasons, JT can't(and shouldn't) pitch the ball because it would be a higher probability of a turnover. There's a reason few teams have won the NC with spread teams, unless they had dynamic QBs who could take over games (Cam Newton, Deshaun Watson, Tebow, I'd even include Cardale) and JT ain't that. There must be a more creative way that Wilson can get the hands in his RBs hands, he's done it before in Oklahoma with 2 RBs.


Another thing I noticed(and Bien mentioned it on LO10) is that the team didnt seem to be "hyped" up for this game. It seemed like
A. They thought they could just show up and Iowa would roll over
B. They were still spent from the Ped St. Game and watching themselves on ESPN all week and hearing how great they were.
Iowa came into this game hungry and feeling disrespected from the jump. hearing how OSU would just sleep walk through them and end up in the B1G championship. Ferentz seemed to play that angle up and we saw 2 teams in 2 very different mind sets. For all the talk of the 9 captains, it didnt seem they made much difference and our losses are starting to look all similar. This game is a clear reason why Sweeney and Clemson laughed at our offense and knew that they barely needed to game plan. And it seems once the offense doesn't work, they don't seem to have a plan b at halftime, just double down on what isn't working. This baffling strategy can also be inserted for the defense as well. This team doesn't seem to have enough hungry leaders to keep kids humble. Oklahoma and Iowa looked like arrogant teams thinking they could show up with 4 and 5star talent and the other team would be terrified. its the old adage about the bully, and then he gets punched in the nose and he's no longer the same. I saw little fight from the offense or defense after halftime, and not sure who that falls on more, the players on the field or the coaches who are paid a lot of money to make them succeed.
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I agree with plenty of this, but unlike last year, i think the offense worked fine through 1.5 quarters. Pretty sure they were on pace for another 500 yard game at halftime.

The defense getting shredded made Barrett begin to press midway through the 2nd Q which resulted in the back breaking INT. Then, like you said, Meyer doubled down on JT carrying them to victory and the O collapsed.

Once it became clear that the defense was going to struggle, this game needed a grind-it-out approach not 'hope a shaky Barrett carries the team to a win in a shootout' approach. Ball control, keep their O off the field, and give the D time to regroup.
 
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inliner311 said:
The mentality of the offensive playcalling has changed so much ever since Herman left. Herman set up plays with other plays. He had no problem running plays over and over till the defense stopped it then he would hit them with the counter punch to that play. It wasn't about taking what the defense gave him, which I think this coaching staff is all about. Its about forcing the defense to react and taking advantage of it.

We see it with how JT drops back and is asked to scan the field. It's hoping one of the 4-5 receivers will beat his guy and JT recognizes it and passes to him. Its hoping our talent wins out over theirs.

I would much rather see a clear plan of attack and using the scheme and playcalling to get guys into position to beat their man. Allow JT to use timing and anticipation to go with the receivers route running and athleticism to win matchups. Allow JT to look off receivers and just not scan the field from left to right.

Herman made his playcalling an art. He couldn't abandon the run because it was used to set up the pass and other run plays. Everything was down to timing and alignment.
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I think you remember only “Good Tom” while there was plenty of “Bad Tom” mixed in there, especially early. Go back and read his thread if you need a reminder.
 
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AuTX Buckeye said:
Not with Spread is my understanding. Ross Fulton kept bashing this over folks heads, that when you choose to run the spread you have to live with the QB read and for the most part my understanding the reads were the correct ones. As long as we play Urbans spread this will be a problem.
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I mean I typically don't mind this because no offense is going to be on 100% of the time. That's why you have another side of the ball that stops people from scoring. 24 points should have been enough to win against an Iowa team that had trouble putting up points against pretty much every team they've faced this season.
 
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Systems_id said:
I mean I typically don't mind this because no offense is going to be on 100% of the time. That's why you have another side of the ball that stops people from scoring. 24 points should have been enough to win against an Iowa team that had trouble putting up points against pretty much every team they've faced this season.
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Obviously this is for the defense thread, but if the unfocused, sloppy play of this team is concern #1a, the defense getting shredded like it did is concern #1b. Offensive issues are certainly there, but whats it matter when a team runs almost as nany points as its 3 previous games combined?
 
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1926Buckeyes said:
Obviously this is for the defense thread, but if the unfocused, sloppy play of this team is concern #1a, the defense getting shredded like it did is concern #1b. Offensive issues are certainly there, but whats it matter when a team runs almost as nany points as its 3 previous games combined?
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Worse yet we can't even get them off the field.. What I notice about the defense is we are not good on 3rd down at all.

The only thing our offense did wrong is two fold... A) stopped running the ball with our backs (again) and B) Turned the ball over. The funny thing is you could've fixed both of those issues with the same solution. Run the damn backs.
 
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1926Buckeyes said:
I agree with plenty of this, but unlike last year, i think the offense worked fine through 1.5 quarters. Pretty sure they were on pace for another 500 yard game at halftime.

The defense getting shredded made Barrett begin to press midway through the 2nd Q which resulted in the back breaking INT. Then, like you said, Meyer doubled down on JT carrying them to victory and the O collapsed.

Once it became clear that the defense was going to struggle, this game needed a grind-it-out approach not 'hope a shaky Barrett carries the team to a win in a shootout' approach. Ball control, keep their O off the field, and give the D time to regroup.
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The problem that you re stating (and so many others) is that tOSU runs a zone read offense. No coaches forced JT to run the ball, he READ the defense and they forced him to hold on to the ball. The coaches are calling plays that JT must make the decision to hold on to the ball or pitch it. He is taught to not pitch the ball if the DE or LB collapse on the RB. Teams with enough talent are able to game plan to stop that. No doubt, teams like Mich St, scUM and Wisky are watching and hatching schemes to make JT beat them with his legs. Wilson absolutely should find handoffs and tosses to use for the RBs, but it looks like the coaches want to ride the option and make teams beat them with it
 
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