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2016 tOSU Offense Discussion

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Hstead said:
I went ahead and pulled some of your statements about Nick for the record. Same argument you used "frosh, yada yada, high school yada yada"

"The guy who beats out Nick is a guy who's already on the roster, I'm not sure who, but it's hard to believe a true frosh from Day 1 will start over players already in the system, and comfortable with the speed of the college game. That's great a HS coach has a quote about him, but he's a HS coach, college and high school are worlds apart. There's no problem with him being in the 2 deep as a frosh. But expecting a day 1 starter is a lot to ask for a D lineman who doesn't even yet have to use much advanced technique in HS, or even been part of a famous Coach Mick training session. No matter how much big bro can try and prepare him, it's not the same"

"There's always exceptions. Great for Joey, last I checked they're two different people. Many factors can go against true frosh coming in and starting. Pedigree means nothing, none of us know how hard he'll work when he comes on campus, or how fast he'll grasp the system, injuries, getting technique(hell no longer be playing HS OL). I'm just saying many many 5stars have come to college and had a rude awakening in their first year. I think Nick will play in the rotation, and maybe start by seasons end, MAYBE, I tend to place little faith in true frosh, no matter how highly rated they are or who their family is. I'll sit back and pleasently surprised if I'm wrong"

"Last we all checked, Nick hasn't done jack squat in college either, lol! At least Lewis and Holmes have actually played in college games and been apart of off season college training programs. Yet again, Joey has literally nothing to do with his brother, his accomplishments are his own, not his brothers. Our DEs were considered a strength last year as well as this years, and it starts with Bosa, but also the depth is a big reason. It wouldn't be surprising to see Bosa in the 2 deep, but a lot shouldn't be expected of a true frosh, no matter his ratings. Our DE depth is unproven, but there's still a lot of talent, Holmes, Hubbard and Lewis can be very good, don't get wrapped up in what a kids brother has done and expect the same."

"By my statements, I've said he COULD crack the 2 deep. But nice try. And going by Meyers coaching logic, none of those factors matter either."

"I don't get fans that put such lofty expectations on true frosh. The percentages are quite low for true frosh to make major impact, even ones with great bloodlines. The only comparison to Joey is their last name, IMO. They're not the same. I agree that the guys in the DE room aren't all established, but they've at least been in a college strength & conditioning program, dealt with collegiate nutrition, and being able to balance a football and school work load. College is a far different ball game than HS, I'm not saying that Joey hasn't prepared him, but college rosters are littered with former 5stars. I hope Nick balls out, but I in no way would expect him to be like his brother in year 1. I'd gladly be wrong, but I agree with @buchtelgrad04 that this is a pretty stacked DE room with a bunch of hungry young guys also looking to make a name for themselves. Joey didn't have close to the amount of DE talent when he came in"


Those were a few. I guess you are "pleasantly surprised"? Several of us expected Nick to perform just like he has. You didn't.
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I guess you didn't see that part of my argument?
But I guess you want a pat on the back for guessing on a message board? We all guess/prognasticate almost daily about all of the players and coaches, you can pull statements from pretty much every poster on this entire board, so I still don't see your point. I said that Nick would play in the rotation(he did) and MAYBE start by seasons end(he didn't)...

Hstead said:
No, I am just not going to have you explain to me what the difference from high school to college is. I believe I have a better understanding of that topic than you? Maybe you played too? Did you play high school? Either way, please do explain it to me. And yes, if you want I can go back and dig up the posts opf you arguing with me and Mili about how much playing time Nick would get. I am sure he remembers too. Nick might not get the first snap of the game, but he gets at least as many as the other guys and draws more doubles than any other DLman we have. That speaks volumes. Yet you went on and on about how he couldn't play as a frosh and how there is no comparison between his high school games etc. The exact same BS.

I watch the games live. We have WRs running wide ass open every game that you can't see on TV. To claim the WRs can't get open is horse [Mark May]. We have several receivers that will play on Sundays, just like last years group when I heard the same bull[Mark May] excuse. That entire group is playing on Sundays, 4 of them. A ton of the sacks are on JT. You can't expect the Oline to block for longer than 3 seconds, that is not the standard. Anything past 3 seconds is a bonus. JT holds it past 5 at times. Cardale did the same thing. The ball did not come out on time.

If you think Joe's dad hasn't coached him then I am not sure how to explain that. Sure Joe didn't play college defenses in high school, but that has nothing to do with reading a defense. You obviously have little understanding of how a QB reads a defense. There are pre-snap reads and post snap. If you think a college DB coach hasn't taught his kid a TON about disguising coverages etc then again I am not sure how to explain it. It may happen faster in college, but reading a defense is reading a defense. Most often once you know the coverage (pre-snap and quickly post snap) you are reading 1 guy. If that one guy makes one step BANG the ball is out. It isn't rocket science. Cardale is learning how to do that at the pro level. JT hasn't been good at it, neither was Cardale last year.

My cousin, played d1, and I were talking about it yesterday. Our respective QBs at our schools both stood in the pocket during practice, often with a stop watch or someone else counting to 3, and they would scream when the ball needed to be gone. Maybe Beck is doing that. I hope so. But we aren't seeing it in the games. Spielman, who I regard as knowing as much football if not more than anyone on TV or radio, spoke at length about it last year. The ball does not come out on time, the execution sucks, and it goes on the QB. Just as Spielman said it did. The QB knows the route that is being run and the ball needs to be in the air when before he even makes his break. We never see that happen.

Watch Tom Brady. He doesn't even need an Oline half the time and he makes guys that run 4.6 40s look like HOFers.
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Yes, I played in HS too, like a number of posters(but that's pretty irrelevant).
Urban himself has even said that the WRs need to do a better job of getting open and helping JT. And if you're watching the game live, then you see the numerous drops that our WRs continue to have as well. We do not have several WRs that are ready to play on Sundays, they still need seasoning(that includes Brown).
Of course I understand about pre and post snap reads, and a QB using his head or eyes to throw off coverage(or even shoulders), but thinking that reading a defense for D3 HS is the same as reading the Silver Bullets or a D1 school, is to say in the least, different.
But I'll just concede to your argument, I wish Joe nothing but the best, but my only point, as it is with all unproven kids is that we don't know what we're getting and err on the side of caution. Yes, Nick was an outlier of DL talent, but Barrow(possibly injury) and Cooper(RS) didn't do much. Heck we have 4 OL in the same class as Burrow who haven't produced much and all had very good coaching. But if you need to be right, by all means pat yourself on the back for taking my words out of context to try and make your argument relevant.
 
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Hstead said:
I went ahead and pulled some of your statements about Nick for the record. Same argument you used "frosh, yada yada, high school yada yada"

"The guy who beats out Nick is a guy who's already on the roster, I'm not sure who, but it's hard to believe a true frosh from Day 1 will start over players already in the system, and comfortable with the speed of the college game. That's great a HS coach has a quote about him, but he's a HS coach, college and high school are worlds apart. There's no problem with him being in the 2 deep as a frosh. But expecting a day 1 starter is a lot to ask for a D lineman who doesn't even yet have to use much advanced technique in HS, or even been part of a famous Coach Mick training session. No matter how much big bro can try and prepare him, it's not the same"

"There's always exceptions. Great for Joey, last I checked they're two different people. Many factors can go against true frosh coming in and starting. Pedigree means nothing, none of us know how hard he'll work when he comes on campus, or how fast he'll grasp the system, injuries, getting technique(hell no longer be playing HS OL). I'm just saying many many 5stars have come to college and had a rude awakening in their first year. I think Nick will play in the rotation, and maybe start by seasons end, MAYBE, I tend to place little faith in true frosh, no matter how highly rated they are or who their family is. I'll sit back and pleasently surprised if I'm wrong"

"Last we all checked, Nick hasn't done jack squat in college either, lol! At least Lewis and Holmes have actually played in college games and been apart of off season college training programs. Yet again, Joey has literally nothing to do with his brother, his accomplishments are his own, not his brothers. Our DEs were considered a strength last year as well as this years, and it starts with Bosa, but also the depth is a big reason. It wouldn't be surprising to see Bosa in the 2 deep, but a lot shouldn't be expected of a true frosh, no matter his ratings. Our DE depth is unproven, but there's still a lot of talent, Holmes, Hubbard and Lewis can be very good, don't get wrapped up in what a kids brother has done and expect the same."

"By my statements, I've said he COULD crack the 2 deep. But nice try. And going by Meyers coaching logic, none of those factors matter either."

"I don't get fans that put such lofty expectations on true frosh. The percentages are quite low for true frosh to make major impact, even ones with great bloodlines. The only comparison to Joey is their last name, IMO. They're not the same. I agree that the guys in the DE room aren't all established, but they've at least been in a college strength & conditioning program, dealt with collegiate nutrition, and being able to balance a football and school work load. College is a far different ball game than HS, I'm not saying that Joey hasn't prepared him, but college rosters are littered with former 5stars. I hope Nick balls out, but I in no way would expect him to be like his brother in year 1. I'd gladly be wrong, but I agree with @buchtelgrad04 that this is a pretty stacked DE room with a bunch of hungry young guys also looking to make a name for themselves. Joey didn't have close to the amount of DE talent when he came in"


Those were a few. I guess you are "pleasantly surprised"? Several of us expected Nick to perform just like he has. You didn't.
Click to expand...

Coach Urban Meyer addressing our WRs less than stellar play and hindering JT Barrett:
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-...te-urban-meyer-wants-more-from-wide-receivers

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-...eivers-nowhere-near-where-they-need-to-be-yet

Birm mentioning it a LO10:

https://www.landof10.com/ohio-state/ohio-state-biggest-isses-playoff-2016
 
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I never once made the case or ever stated that any of the other Frosh Dlinmen would play other than Bosa. Strawman much? It's all there. You didn't think what Bosa did in high school was relevant and didn't think he would make an impact. You missed.

I haven't said Burrow was ready to play college defenses coming out of HS. I have said Beck will not be nearly as responsible for Joe's fundamantals since Joe has had excellent coaching and fundamentals since he was very young. Same for Haskins, he came in with very good fundamentals. If they regress, it will be glaring. If they display good fundamentals, I will not be willing to hail Beck since they both arrived with very good skills to begin with. The entire point.

You want to defend Beck. I do not think Beck is a good QB coach and I think he is a terrible play caller. We have watched our Heisman candidate QBs struggle mightly. You can blame the Oline and WRs all you want, but the Oline and the WRs are not the ones holding on to the ball, missing guys wide ass open by over throwing it 10 feet etc. The QB play has not been very good since Beck got here. It was pretty dang good before he got here. The kind folks from Corn warned us.
 
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Hstead said:
I never once made the case or ever stated that any of the other Frosh Dlinmen would play other than Bosa. Strawman much? It's all there. You didn't think what Bosa did in high school was relevant and didn't think he would make an impact. You missed.

I haven't said Burrow was ready to play college defenses coming out of HS. I have said Beck will not be nearly as responsible for Joe's fundamantals since Joe has had excellent coaching and fundamentals since he was very young. Same for Haskins, he came in with very good fundamentals. If they regress, it will be glaring. If they display good fundamentals, I will not be willing to hail Beck since they both arrived with very good skills to begin with. The entire point.

You want to defend Beck. I do not think Beck is a good QB coach and I think he is a terrible play caller. We have watched our Heisman candidate QBs struggle mightly. You can blame the Oline and WRs all you want, but the Oline and the WRs are not the ones holding on to the ball, missing guys wide ass open by over throwing it 10 feet etc. The QB play has not been very good since Beck got here. It was pretty dang good before he got here. The kind folks from Corn warned us.
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I never said that you said anything about the other frosh lineman, just stating a point, that not all frosh perform in their first year. And you made need to again, because I did say that Bosa would make an impact, but if you need to be right, then go right ahead. I missed:roll1:
Burrow and Haskins have good fundamentals, and still have work to do in college, is what I'm stating. I'm hardly defending Beck, just stating that there's more that they have to learn about the college level. But you need to be right, so go right ahead8D
Maybe you should apply to be a coach, you do know more than anyone because you played HS and D1 and watch games live...
 
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Hstead said:
I went ahead and pulled some of your statements about Nick for the record. Same argument you used "frosh, yada yada, high school yada yada"

"The guy who beats out Nick is a guy who's already on the roster, I'm not sure who, but it's hard to believe a true frosh from Day 1 will start over players already in the system, and comfortable with the speed of the college game. That's great a HS coach has a quote about him, but he's a HS coach, college and high school are worlds apart. There's no problem with him being in the 2 deep as a frosh. But expecting a day 1 starter is a lot to ask for a D lineman who doesn't even yet have to use much advanced technique in HS, or even been part of a famous Coach Mick training session. No matter how much big bro can try and prepare him, it's not the same"

"There's always exceptions. Great for Joey, last I checked they're two different people. Many factors can go against true frosh coming in and starting. Pedigree means nothing, none of us know how hard he'll work when he comes on campus, or how fast he'll grasp the system, injuries, getting technique(hell no longer be playing HS OL). I'm just saying many many 5stars have come to college and had a rude awakening in their first year. I think Nick will play in the rotation, and maybe start by seasons end, MAYBE, I tend to place little faith in true frosh, no matter how highly rated they are or who their family is. I'll sit back and pleasently surprised if I'm wrong"

"Last we all checked, Nick hasn't done jack squat in college either, lol! At least Lewis and Holmes have actually played in college games and been apart of off season college training programs. Yet again, Joey has literally nothing to do with his brother, his accomplishments are his own, not his brothers. Our DEs were considered a strength last year as well as this years, and it starts with Bosa, but also the depth is a big reason. It wouldn't be surprising to see Bosa in the 2 deep, but a lot shouldn't be expected of a true frosh, no matter his ratings. Our DE depth is unproven, but there's still a lot of talent, Holmes, Hubbard and Lewis can be very good, don't get wrapped up in what a kids brother has done and expect the same."

"By my statements, I've said he COULD crack the 2 deep. But nice try. And going by Meyers coaching logic, none of those factors matter either."

"I don't get fans that put such lofty expectations on true frosh. The percentages are quite low for true frosh to make major impact, even ones with great bloodlines. The only comparison to Joey is their last name, IMO. They're not the same. I agree that the guys in the DE room aren't all established, but they've at least been in a college strength & conditioning program, dealt with collegiate nutrition, and being able to balance a football and school work load. College is a far different ball game than HS, I'm not saying that Joey hasn't prepared him, but college rosters are littered with former 5stars. I hope Nick balls out, but I in no way would expect him to be like his brother in year 1. I'd gladly be wrong, but I agree with @buchtelgrad04 that this is a pretty stacked DE room with a bunch of hungry young guys also looking to make a name for themselves. Joey didn't have close to the amount of DE talent when he came in"


Those were a few. I guess you are "pleasantly surprised"? Several of us expected Nick to perform just like he has. You didn't.
Click to expand...

Which statement from pnuts are you saying turned out to be wrong?
 
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