2015-16 Ohio State Quarterback Discussion

[OSUK]

You can definitely see the difference in arm strength between JT and Cardale, and even some of Braxton's throws (pre-injury). But what JT has, especially on those 3rd and 7ish throws is touch and accuracy. That might not make him an NFL QB, but it has allowed him to be one heckuva QB at Ohio State.

 

[Hstead]

I recall several games and situations last year near the goal line my dad and I would look at each other and say "Braxton would have walked in the end zone on that play" and we settled for 3 pts instead.

 

[pnuts34]

I recall several games and situations last year near the goal line my dad and I would look at each other and say "Braxton would have walked in the end zone on that play" and we settled for 3 pts instead.

Outside of Navy, Va Tech, Ped St and Minny we dropped 40+pts on every team we played. PSU and Minny were away in hostile territories or inclimate weather so I wouldn't see Braxton "walking into end zones" against either, maybe against Va Tech, but other than that, JT lit up the scoreboards as did Cardale.

 

[bukIpower]

I recall several games and situations last year near the goal line my dad and I would look at each other and say "Braxton would have walked in the end zone on that play" and we settled for 3 pts instead.

There's also about double as many times though were I looked at my dad and said "Braxton wouldn't have completed that pass" after some of the TD's that JT threw. Goes both ways, but fortunately for Braxton he has something that neither one of the other guys have which is electric ability with the ball in his hands and that'll allow Braxton to have a big role in our offense regardless if he's the starter or not.

To me this is still a JT vs Cardale battle because Braxton just won't be healthy enough to be a full time QB IMO. Full go is great for Braxton but he still has to work the rust off even if he some how is able to maintain his arm strength and you don't shake off rust on the road, at night, and in Lane Stadium. Do you go with decision making and accuracy? or do we go with Raw talent and strength? IMO, if Urban is going to chart how our QB's are playing then JT will win this battle outright by mid camp because that's what his strength is. JT's strength is making the best decisions and distributing the ball which is exactly what Urban is going to look for.

As has been stated though by many of the posters here I would not be shocked to see Braxton start at Vtech as the opening play QB but then to relent to JT the rest of the way. I won't feel bad for Braxton though because as I stated he's going to see 10+ touches a game no matter what but it is a shame however that one of JT or Cardale is going to be doing a lot of clip board holding all year. Something to think about though if Braxton is going to play some at other positions which is better to utilize his talent? JT or Cardale? I think we all know that answer to that and because of that to me JT is the clear cut option in my eyes. What's the point of having Braxton on the field if we can't accurately and correctly get him the ball? JT gives us that route as well as all the other great talent we have as far as involving all our guys.

I love what Cardale did for this team last year but to me you have to play the guy who is going to get the ball to the endless amount of players who need the ball which to me defines JT. We don't need this to be the Cardale/Zeke show we need this to be the JT or Cardale/Zeke/marshall/Samuel/Wilson/Thomas/Braxton/Vannett/Corey Smith show.

Also our strength this next year will be our obvious rushing attack, intermediate game, and our horizontal passing game. Going Vertically while its important is going to be in a bit of a transition as we try to find that next great Vertical threat. IMO, Cardale's strengths just aren't as suitable for this years team as last years. Really though I won't care either way but this is all just how I see it playing out while having no horse in this race.

 

[Hstead]

Outside of Navy, Va Tech, Ped St and Minny we dropped 40+pts on every team we played. PSU and Minny were away in hostile territories or inclimate weather so I wouldn't see Braxton "walking into end zones" against either, maybe against Va Tech, but other than that, JT lit up the scoreboards as did Cardale.

Twice against Bama we had first and goal and settled for 3. Cardale does not give us nearly as many options as Braxton in those situations.

 

[OSUK]

Twice against Bama we had first and goal and settled for 3. Cardale does not give us nearly as many options as Braxton in those situations.

And just off the top of my head - against Maryland on 3rd and goal JT threw a perfect pass to Jalin for a TD, and remember the 3rd and 23 (or whatever it was vs. Sparty)? JT dropped that one into a pop bottle from 30 yards. There was another throw vs. Maryland (to Vannett I believe) for a first down that he threw low, through 3 defenders, into a 6" window. JT isn't perfect, for sure, but more often than not, he makes the throw (or run) that keeps the chains moving. While not doing it as exciting as the other two, the bottom line is his efficiency in those situations means that we will punt more with him carrying a clipboard while wearing a ball cap and headphones.

I like Cam Johnston, and don't mind punting occasionally just to keep the score down, but I'd rather not do it more than necessary. :)

 

[southcampus]

JT isn't perfect, for sure, but more often than not, he makes the throw (or run) that keeps the chains moving. While not doing it as exciting as the other two, the bottom line is his efficiency in those situations means that we will punt more with him carrying a clipboard while wearing a ball cap and headphones.

I like Cam Johnston, and don't mind punting occasionally just to keep the score down, but I'd rather not do it more than necessary. :)

I like your enthusiasm and share the same high opinion of JT. But I don't think the stats support this argument about punting less with him at the helm. Does anyone have the punt stats from last year compared to 2013? Very curious what those look like.

If JT or Cardale gets the nod, I think fans will say "WOW" when observing the growth both show from already amazing 2014 performances.

 

[RugbyBuck]

Obviously, we all want to see Braxton's physical comeback, but I'm also anxious to see his mental/game management progression that Urban has mentioned lately. Braxton with 75% of JT's field general ability and 75% of Cardale's arm strength and something to prove would be a world destroyer.

 

[OSUK]

I like your enthusiasm and share the same high opinion of JT. But I don't think the stats support this argument about punting less with him at the helm. Does anyone have the punt stats from last year compared to 2013? Very curious what those look like.

Legit point. I don't know. I'm not a stats guy. My sense is that Ohio State punted way less in 2014 than 2013.

The comparison between JT's 12 games and Cardale's 3 is hard because we are talking about a team that had arrived vs. a team that had to grow, Indiana and Illinois is not the same thing as Alabama and Oregon, and Zeke went from a good 100 yard back to a 230 yard beast. All of those things factor in to QB play - oh, and the OL JT played with the first, say, 5 games, looked like a completely different unit than the one Cardale lined up behind. The only way to know (and you could never know for sure) is to see if JT's efficiency would go up even more if he had something similar to line up with as Cardale had. I believe it would, and that's why I want to see JT under center as the main guy with Braxton as a slash and Cardale as the intermittent reliever.

I don't hear too many people argue that JT isn't the most efficient of the 3. Efficiency = first downs and scores. In my mind, if it's not him, you are choosing less first downs and less scoring - and I can't understand that choice.

 

[southcampus]

From my research, it looks like Ohio State punted 49 times in 2013 and 48 times in 2014. It also looks like OSU had more yards per play in 2013, scored more points per game in 2013, and was FAR more efficient in the redzone in 2013. I seem to recall JT and the offense looking very stale against Indiana late in the year before Jalin Marshall put on a 4-td show to blow the game open. Chalk it up to week-before-SCUM let downs but that was LATE in the year with the same OL that Cardale performed behind 3 weeks later.

I think JT is in rare air at Ohio State. I mean, he re-wrote the record books last year. But if he gets beat out by Cardale or Braxton in camp, I think I'll stand by Coach Meyer and how he evaluates the QB position.

 

[jlb1705]

From my research, it looks like Ohio State punted 49 times in 2013 and 48 times in 2014. It also looks like OSU had more yards per play in 2013, scored more points per game in 2013, and was FAR more efficient in the redzone in 2013. I seem to recall JT and the offense looking very stale against Indiana late in the year before Jalin Marshall put on a 4-td show to blow the game open. Chalk it up to week-before-SCUM let downs but that was LATE in the year with the same OL that Cardale performed behind 3 weeks later.

I think JT is in rare air at Ohio State. I mean, he re-wrote the record books last year. But if he gets beat out by Cardale or Braxton in camp, I think I'll stand by Coach Meyer and how he evaluates the QB position.

Goes to show, you can probably find a good set of stats to support any of the three. That's why any of that stuff is unlikely to matter.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

From my research, it looks like Ohio State punted 49 times in 2013 and 48 times in 2014. It also looks like OSU had more yards per play in 2013, scored more points per game in 2013, and was FAR more efficient in the redzone in 2013. I seem to recall JT and the offense looking very stale against Indiana late in the year before Jalin Marshall put on a 4-td show to blow the game open. Chalk it up to week-before-SCUM let downs but that was LATE in the year with the same OL that Cardale performed behind 3 weeks later.

The difference in Red Zone efficiency between 2013 (.952) and 2014 (.851) was indeed big. However, most other offensive stats are very, very close:

The points per game difference between 2013 (45.5) and 2014 (44.8) is a bit more than a half a point...negligible.
Yards per game for 2013 (511.9) and 2014 (511.6) are virtually identical.
The yards per play difference between 2013 (7.15) and 2014 (6.98) is about a half a foot.
Offensive TDs (83) are identical for 2013 and 2014.

Considering we our 2013 QB was entering his third year as a starter and our 2014 QB was getting his first start two years removed from his senior year in HS, I think Barrett stacked up quite well (he did break Miller's single-season total offense record).

 

[southcampus]

The difference in Red Zone efficiency between 2013 (.952) and 2014 (.851) was indeed big. However, most other offensive stats are very, very close:

The points per game difference between 2013 (45.5) and 2014 (44.8) is a bit more than a half a point...negligible.
Yards per game for 2013 (511.9) and 2014 (511.6) are virtually identical.
The yards per play difference between 2013 (7.15) and 2014 (6.98) is about a half a foot.
Offensive TDs (83) are identical for 2013 and 2014.

Considering we our 2013 QB was entering his third year as a starter and our 2014 QB was getting his first start two years removed from his senior year in HS, I think Barrett stacked up quite well (he did break Miller's single-season total offense record).

I agree 100%. I'd also submit that Coach Meyer and staff in year 3 of their system, with their guys in place, also accounts for some added value on the offensive side of the ball.

I guess the point that I'm trying to make, albeit not very well, is that we were very good in offense in 2013 and very good in offense in 2014. Breaking down the different factors that account for that success isn't easy, which is what makes this QB-race so interesting. I personally believe Braxton take a lot of heat undeserving heat for his passing resume and people overstate his passing shortcomings.

 

[matttank]

Also important to note that in 2013 the offense averaged 56.7 ppg and 552 ypg with Kenny G at the helm for almost 3 entire games

Edit: Just saying they should be noted when you are trying to use the 2013 numbers in relation to Braxton

 

[southcampus]

For the most part, I agree with you. I mean, was there a more exciting player in college football than Braxton Miller? He's an absolute scoreboard changer.

My question is, are we better with 2 of our 3 elite QBs on the bench or 2 of them in the game? Because I have no doubt that Braxton could be an absolute weapon at RB/H/WR.