2014 tOSU Wide Receiver Discussion

[bukIpower]

I would argue the scheme most certainly is to blame for all the sacks Mili. You don't call 3 go routes when you can't protect for 3 seconds. That's on the play calling/scheme.

 

[kujirakira]

Game planning was the primary problem wether you plan to look blindly at it or not. Yes there were a few drops but the glaring issue is the 30% completion percentage when you've already been forced to abandon the run. No attempts to throw to the RB's and TE's and rarely looking toward intermediate and short routes left Barrett throwing deep balls faster than he was ready. A brand new QB and OL and those are the throws under pressure that they want him to complete 60-70% of the time. When you know the blitz is coming you have to have a game plan ready to offset it. You can blame the receivers all you want but other than 3 big completions the buckeye passing game was 6-26 for 70 yds.

There were so many issues I think it's impossible to definitively identify a "primary problem".
Dropped passes
OL
Special Teams
Playcalling
Defense giving up something like 8/10 on 3rd downs in the 1st half
... There's probably something I'm forgetting too

Any one of those could be "the primary problem". Every one of them deserves that kind of attention. Time to regroup imo.

Nobody is on the ledge, just pointing out the lack of production in the group.
So what was the reasons for our receivers the past seasons if this is due to a young OLine and young QB? Out of all D-1A wideouts, Philly came in at #100, Devin Smith at #138 in 2013. In 2012, Philly Brown ranked #119, and Devin Smith #146.



They are young and green? Who? They are all experienced players.

Devin Smith is a Senior that played in all games last year, played in all games in 2012, played in 2011.
Evan Spence is a Senior that played in all 14 games last year, played in 2012, and played in 10 games in 2011.
Corey Smith is a Junior that played as a JUCO

The only player that is truly green the way you try to depict them as is Michael Thomas having only played in 2012.

I think part of the issue is that a lot of us have kind of given up on the first two. They are what they are at this point. The light isn't going to come on. Smith is still a deep threat, but that and screens is the extent of his contribution.
I don't think we can count Corey as experienced. Regardless, that performance was pretty bad. I'd put it up there with RBs fumbling the ball. I still have hopes, but starting to wonder about Greene and Dixon.
At least Thomas looks and sounds like he wants to carry that unit.

 

[RB07OSU]

So how about this - how about we all shut up about who would be doing what, trust the coaches to do their jobs and just enjoy the fun?

I haven't had very much fun watching this group and even UFM said the same thing. I don't place all of the blame on Smith, but I am concerned that basically none of our veteran receivers appeared to have progressed except for Thomas. I'm ok with Devin Smith because as someone already said, his role is to usually stretch the field. I haven't written off C. Smith either, he's only played two games so far and can still be very good imo. Spencer is a great blocker and team leader, but he just provides nothing else...I would like to see Dixon take the bulk of his snaps next week to see what he can do. Marshall and Dontre are going to be just fine when we use them properly and they adjust to the position. Thomas is only getting better and better, and should be our go to when we need the intermediate balls caught (although he can do a lot more than that). Curious to see if Noah Brown gets some work, his film is the definition of an intermediate ball catcher that can earn tough yards and still be explosive....UFM said he might get some work this week. I know there were a lot of drops last week but it was one performance...I think we will progress into a very good WR unit. But if we don't...then yes, Smith is not immune from the chopping block.

And JFC guys, we root for the same team...get along.

 

[matcar]

I would argue the scheme most certainly is to blame for all the sacks Mili. You don't call 3 go routes when you can't protect for 3 seconds. That's on the play calling/scheme.

That's absurd. ALL the sacks? So the fact that our line is new and isn't yet ready for prime time doesn't mean a thing? You think you can just scheme around that? That's insane. While you can try some things you simply cannot magically make that a non issue. Not to mention a new QB...

All the sacks...

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

How are you even a staff member, you act like you're 3. The fact was we knew they were going to be in our backfield all game yet we did nothing to offset it. I'm not going to sit here and continually dissect the game for you when you point at single plays instead of the whole picture. So enjoy your video game talk while I work a real job.

I'm not going to continue to argue with a moron. You really think the staff sat on the sidelines and thought, "Damn, they guessed our gameplan, no sense in making adjustments." Just because you couldn't pick it up doesn't mean it's didn't happen. By the way, a game is made from a continuous series of "single plays", and any single play can switch momentum, reveal weaknesses, and change how the opposition attacks. You may want video game ZOMG!! 8 wideouts!!11!, or superblitz everyone!!11!!, but that's just not the answer. By the way, my real job dwarfs anything for which you'll ever qualify...

 

[jwinslow]

Lol your comments are way off base. We were 9 receptions away from having an average completion percentage. The receivers didn't drop 9 balls. If you go back and watch games there's probably an average of 2 drops a game , yes some are bigger than others but point being we didn't put our QB, OL and WR's in a scheme to achieve with their level of maturation to this point. You act like they dropped 10 passes. We had one on one match ups all over the field all you have to do is play pitch and catch and they make a DB miss a tackle and they're gone.

Like when dontre dropped the swing pass at the beginning? Or both drops by corey (neither were dislodged)? Or the other 3+ jump balls where our small wide outs simply can't win 1v1 situations? (none to 6'3" Thomas IIRC)

Devin played sparingly last week. I'm not sure why but that was a huge factor as that deep realm is his forte.

I would like more screens. I have no idea who is going to catch them.

I would like more smash mouth football. I have a good idea of who won't be clearing the way on 3rd and short (at least not until they mature and improve). I also am not sure who is going to pick up those 3 yards after contact when the line can't get it done.


What I would like are more underneath passes to the tight ends and possession wide outs. Now vt took some of this away but it would have been nice to see a read option fake pop pass to the te to get them thinking about it. Of course that also requires the ol to not get Barrett killed by the end and for him to be quick with the read and release to Heuerman.

 

[jwinslow]

I would argue the scheme most certainly is to blame for all the sacks Mili. You don't call 3 go routes when you can't protect for 3 seconds. That's on the play calling/scheme.

For the sake of argument, let's say that is true. Then what can you call and succeed with an impending sack 3 seconds into a play?

 

[bukIpower]

For the sake of argument, let's say that is true. Then what can you call and succeed with an impending sack 3 seconds into a play?

Something less than 3 seconds lol...personally I would've ran a formation that forced tech to abandon their double eagle look. For example a five wide formation or a trips look.

Let me explain the 5 wide. Have Dontre and either Jalin or Zeke in both the slot receiver positions on either side. This way you can still run sweeps, inside zone, or read option by running motion but now you aren't running into 5 dlineman.

In short I would've forced their hand by formation and personnel.

I should add though that the scheme is a big reason but not the ONLY reason.

 

[jwinslow]

Something less than 3 seconds lol...personally I would've ran a formation that forced tech to abandon their double eagle look. For example a five wide formation or a trips look.

Let me explain the 5 wide. Have Dontre and either Jalin or Zeke in both the slot receiver positions on either side. This way you can still run sweeps, inside zone, or read option but now you aren't running into 5 dlineman.

In short I would've forced their hand by formation and personnel.

osu was often getting destroyed when they left no one in to block. I like your principle but it wasn't working on Saturday. The protection was that bad.

What I would like to see is better adjustments when blitzes are coming. Some of that comes down to a wide eyed freshman.

 

[bukIpower]

The next time we adjust on offense will be the first time. Very seldom has a defense taken away our offensive plan but when they have such as clemson, msu And tech we have just kept on like all was well.


I will say tho Jwins, if tech would bring the heat in my hypothetical situation then perfect. Better seams, more of a chance for them to guess wrong, and there's a better shot that SOMEONE is open or someone will break 1 tackle and go for 6.

 

[jlb1705]

Lol your comments are way off base. We were 9 receptions away from having an average completion percentage. The receivers didn't drop 9 balls. If you go back and watch games there's probably an average of 2 drops a game , yes some are bigger than others but point being we didn't put our QB, OL and WR's in a scheme to achieve with their level of maturation to this point. You act like they dropped 10 passes. We had one on one match ups all over the field all you have to do is play pitch and catch and they make a DB miss a tackle and they're gone.

Of course not all of the incompletions were drops. If the balls that were dropped had been caught instead though, the Buckeyes are running plays to drain the clock in the fourth quarter instead of chucking it deep on every play trying to catch up. It doesn't take many mistakes to change the entire flow of a game.

 

[RB07OSU]

Something less than 3 seconds lol...personally I would've ran a formation that forced tech to abandon their double eagle look. For example a five wide formation or a trips look.

Let me explain the 5 wide. Have Dontre and either Jalin or Zeke in both the slot receiver positions on either side. This way you can still run sweeps, inside zone, or read option by running motion but now you aren't running into 5 dlineman.

In short I would've forced their hand by formation and personnel.

I should add though that the scheme is a big reason but not the ONLY reason.

Honestly, I am agreeing with you here. With the double eagle 8 man middle stack, quick bubble screens to the perimeter likely would work better and JT could just catch the snap and throw it. Even if it doesn't work, you at least get some of those defenders out of the box and playing honest with the formation and play calling. The most frustrating part of not making that adjustment is that I know it is in our playbook, we called the shit out of it against Navy. I understand the VT defense essentially gave us the deep ball opportunity and it is ok to try to exploit that some, but our guys in space could have easily exploited that look as well and forced their hand out of running that package 100% of the time.

Having said that, there were big plays left on the table that can be attributed to lack of execution no doubt. But we still needed to mix it up more and get the ball to our athletes in space.

 

[bukIpower]

Honestly, I am agreeing with you here. With the double eagle 8 man middle stack, quick bubble screens to the perimeter likely would work better and JT could just catch the snap and throw it. Even if it doesn't work, you at least get some of those defenders out of the box and playing honest with the formation and play calling. The most frustrating part of not making that adjustment is that I know it is in our playbook, we called the [Mark May] out of it against Navy. I understand the VT defense essentially gave us the deep ball opportunity and it is ok to try to exploit that some, but our guys in space could have easily exploited that look as well and forced their hand out of running that package 100% of the time.

Having said that, there were big plays left on the table that can be attributed to lack of execution no doubt. But we still needed to mix it up more and get the ball to our athletes in space.

Dude exactly. Wouldn't it have been nice if our coaches gave a BIG FUCK YOU to Bud Foster and ran something like a trips or a five wide or (gasps) two tight end and a QB under center running off tackle? Here they are they spend all this time game planning for our base offense and then we just simply don't run it. Talk about forcing a team to scramble they spend 100 percent of their time stopping our zone read out of base and we stroll out 5 wides. Yet after the game we get comments like "running the ball wasn't going to happen" and "Impossible to run the ball" ok? So we can't run the ball according to them but we can continue doing play action in the same formation they devised to stop for 9 damn months? If their game plan was as brilliant as they thought it was and they couldn't figure a way to go through it then just go the fuck around it.

We go 6 deep at WR I thought so going 5 wide shouldn't be an issue. Like you said RB we need to mix it up and get our speed/athletes in space and I tell you what I like our odds on a quick slant to Dontre where the Linebacker use to be (blitzing) with room to run cutting across the defense.

There's lots of way we can run the zone reads, inside power, and Jet sweeps. If we can't do it from base then just move on and do it from another formation to force the other team to adjust.

 

[MaxBuck]

I'm not going to continue to argue with a moron.

Oh, baloney. You argue with us all the time.

 

[jwinslow]

Dude exactly. Wouldn't it have been nice if our coaches gave a BIG FUCK YOU to Bud Foster and ran something like a trips or a five wide or (gasps) two tight end and a QB under center running off tackle? Here they are they spend all this time game planning for our base offense and we just simply don't run it. Talk about forcing a team to scramble they spend 100 percent of their time stopping our zone read out of base and we stroll out 5 wides. Yet after the game we get comments like "running the ball wasn't going to happen" and "Impossible to run the ball" ok? So we can't run the ball according to them but we can continue doing play action in the same formation they devised to stop for 9 damn months? If their game plan was as brilliant as they thought it was and they couldn't figure a way to go through it then just go the fuck around it.

We go 6 deep at WR I thought so going 5 wide shouldn't be an issue. Like you said RB we need to mix it up and get our speed/athletes in space and I tell you what I like our odds on a quick slant to Dontre where the Linebacker use to be (blitzing) with room to run cutting across the defense.

They ran plenty of trips. They also went 5 wide multiple times.

Do you like Dontre's odds of catching it?