• Follow us on Twitter @buckeyeplanet and @bp_recruiting, like us on Facebook! Enjoy a post or article, recommend it to others! BP is only as strong as its community, and we only promote by word of mouth, so share away!
  • Consider registering! Fewer and higher quality ads, no emails you don't want, access to all the forums, download game torrents, private messages, polls, Sportsbook, etc. Even if you just want to lurk, there are a lot of good reasons to register!

2014 tOSU Defense Discussion

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sort by date Sort by votes
My evidence that defenses aren't putting up those kind of numbers anymore?
It'd be that they're not putting up those kind of numbers anymore... the last decade was one of defensive dominance. Defense still "wins championships", but rule changes and evolution have changed the balance at both Collegiate and NFL level.

But since you want stats, let's consider Wisconsin who everyone is saying has an elite defense this year (and I agree), but their numbers just don't compare favorably to 2002 Ohio State.

2002 tOSU - 77.7yds rushing 13.1ppg
2014 Wiscy - 96.7yds rushing 15.3ppg
 
Upvote 0
Yeah, I was just going to mention Wisconsin. They are the #3 ranked scoring defense in the country and their ppg actually jumped up to 16.1 after yesterday.

I'm not arguing that OSU's rush defense isn't disappointing, it is. A big part of that seems to be philosophy and how Ash doesn't want teams to beat him through the air. Another is OSU still doesn't have the depth/talent combination at LB to shut down plays like they should. Even the DL is hurt with depth. But still, another is that teams are extending games with their offenses going quicker and therefore gaining more plays. Whether that's both teams or just your opponent, teams seem to be getting more offensive opportunities and more yards and points because of that.

Meyer is more offensively inclined, and in my opinion it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. I prefer great defenses, but this has worked fairly well so far.
 
Upvote 0
Buckeyecty4 said:
I'll say what I said last week.

Tyvis Powell is struggling vs the run. He's taking poor angles and he's never been a strong tackler. He's been pretty poor the last three games outings and I don't know how he's keeping his job next year with Erick Smith on the roster.
Click to expand...

Not disagreeing with anything you're saying, but Powell's not the only one taking poor angles and thereby springing long plays for the opposing offense.

On Indiana's first big play (the QB keeper on 3rd and long that the QB ran to inside the 5 yard line), Bell (I'm pretty sure it was him, but never saw a good replay) took a bad angle.

Powell took the bad angle on the 90-yarder.

Burrows took the bad angle on Indiana's TD with about a minute left that went for 50+ yards.

The staff really needs to figure this out--everyone in the secondary seems to be doing something wrong.
 
Upvote 0
LordJeffBuck said:
Through 11 games, the 2014 Buckeye defense has given up 1,626 rushing yards and 19 rushing TDs on 395 attempts (4.1 ypc).

In 14 games, the 2002 Buckeye defense gave up 1,088 rushing yards and 5 rushing TDs on 418 attempts (2.6 ypc).

The 2002 defense faced Larry Johnson, Chris Perry, and Willis McGahee.

In 2002, Larry Johnson rushed for 2,087 yards and 20 TD on 271 attempts (7.7 ypc), was an All American and Maxwell Award winner and a 1st round selection in 2003 NFL draft. The Buckeyes held Johnson to 16 carries for 66 yards (4.1 ypc) and 1 TD.

In 2002, Chris Perry rushed for 1,110 yards and 14 TD on 267 attempts (4.2 ypc). Perry would become an All American in 2003 and a 1st round selection in the 2004 NFL draft. The Buckeyes held Perry to 28 carries for 76 yards (2.7 ypc) and 0 TD.

In 2002, Willis McGahee rushed for 1,753 yards and 28 TD on 282 attempts (6.2 ypc). McGahee was an All American and a 1st round selection in the 2003 NFL draft. The Buckeyes held McGahee to 20 carries for 67 yards (3.35 ypc) and 1 TD.

The only back who went for over 100 yards against the 2002 defense was Wisconsin's Anthony Davis, who had 25 carries for 144 yards (5.8 ypc) and a TD. As a sophomore in 2002, Davis had 1,555 yards and 13 TDs on 300 attempts (5.2 ypc); his college career was derailed by injuries during his final two seasons.

So Ohio State faced an excellent set of running backs in 2002, and held them in check. The 2014 defense had not had similar success with guys like Jeremy Langford (18 attempts, 137 yards, 3 TD, 7.6 ypc); David Cobb (27 attempts, 145 yards, 3 TD, 5.4 ypc); and Tevin Coleman (27 attempts, 228 yards, 3 TD, 8.4 ypc).

The 2014 defense just isn't very good by Ohio State standards.
Click to expand...

The 2002 Minnesota team finished in the top 10 nationally in rushing. That years' team featured Terry Jackson II (1317 yards) and Thomas Tapeh (906 yards) and both entered the Ohio State game with 3 consecutive 100 yard performances. Ohio State held the pair to 81 yards and no TDs.
 
Upvote 0
1926Buckeyes said:
Yeah, I was just going to mention Wisconsin. They are the #3 ranked scoring defense in the country and their ppg actually jumped up to 16.1 after yesterday.

I'm not arguing that OSU's rush defense isn't disappointing, it is. A big part of that seems to be philosophy and how Ash doesn't want teams to beat him through the air. Another is OSU still doesn't have the depth/talent combination at LB to shut down plays like they should. Even the DL is hurt with depth. But still, another is that teams are extending games with their offenses going quicker and therefore gaining more plays. Whether that's both teams or just your opponent, teams seem to be getting more offensive opportunities and more yards and points because of that.

Meyer is more offensively inclined, and in my opinion it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. I prefer great defenses, but this has worked fairly well so far.
Click to expand...

It's interesting that in Total Yards, 2014 D (#20 330yds/g) actually compares close to 2002 D (#23 320.9yds/g)
But in 2002 you could be the #95 ranked D against the pass and still put up great scoring defense - just so long as you defended the run excellently.
That wouldn't fly anymore though. Top defenses now give up under 200yds passing per game these days. That includes Ohio State at #15 with 185yds/g.

I don't think this defense is anywhere near as good as 2002 (or some others like 2005) -- and the ppg demonstrates it -- but I also think it's unrealistic to expect those kind of numbers. Particularly the rushing defense numbers in a vacuum w/o context. If we came out with that 2002 squad giving up passing yards at a clip only slightly better than the 2013 Defense... you can kiss that amazing ppg stat away. The game has changed, and defending the pass now trumps defending the run.
Two of the top-5 scoring Ds this year give up a lot of rushing yards. #1 Miss with 131.4yds/game and #5 LSU with 148.9yds/game. Only 1 team between #5 and #10 give up under 100yds/game. On the other hand, only 1 team in the top-10 scoring D gives up more than 200yds passing (#9 Memphis).
 
Upvote 0
LordJeffBuck said:
Through 11 games, the 2014 Buckeye defense has given up 1,626 rushing yards and 19 rushing TDs on 395 attempts (4.1 ypc).

In 14 games, the 2002 Buckeye defense gave up 1,088 rushing yards and 5 rushing TDs on 418 attempts (2.6 ypc).

The 2002 defense faced Larry Johnson, Chris Perry, and Willis McGahee.

In 2002, Larry Johnson rushed for 2,087 yards and 20 TD on 271 attempts (7.7 ypc), was an All American and Maxwell Award winner and a 1st round selection in 2003 NFL draft. The Buckeyes held Johnson to 16 carries for 66 yards (4.1 ypc) and 1 TD.

In 2002, Chris Perry rushed for 1,110 yards and 14 TD on 267 attempts (4.2 ypc). Perry would become an All American in 2003 and a 1st round selection in the 2004 NFL draft. The Buckeyes held Perry to 28 carries for 76 yards (2.7 ypc) and 0 TD.

In 2002, Willis McGahee rushed for 1,753 yards and 28 TD on 282 attempts (6.2 ypc). McGahee was an All American and a 1st round selection in the 2003 NFL draft. The Buckeyes held McGahee to 20 carries for 67 yards (3.35 ypc) and 1 TD.

The only back who went for over 100 yards against the 2002 defense was Wisconsin's Anthony Davis, who had 25 carries for 144 yards (5.8 ypc) and a TD. As a sophomore in 2002, Davis had 1,555 yards and 13 TDs on 300 attempts (5.2 ypc); his college career was derailed by injuries during his final two seasons.

So Ohio State faced an excellent set of running backs in 2002, and held them in check. The 2014 defense had not had similar success with guys like Jeremy Langford (18 attempts, 137 yards, 3 TD, 7.6 ypc); David Cobb (27 attempts, 145 yards, 3 TD, 5.4 ypc); and Tevin Coleman (27 attempts, 228 yards, 3 TD, 8.4 ypc).

The 2014 defense just isn't very good by Ohio State standards.
Click to expand...


This defense doesn't pass the look test. The 90's Silver Bullets and Tressel's 2000s defenses shut offenses down, especially rush offenses. This defense seems to be soft in comparison.

OTOH, I noticed a post you made recently where you assert this team is good enough to win a national championship. Do you really believe this is a championship defense?
 
Upvote 0
leek said:
This defense doesn't pass the look test. The 90's Silver Bullets and Tressel's 2000s defenses shut offenses down, especially rush offenses. This defense seems to be soft in comparison.

OTOH, I noticed a post you made recently where you assert this team is good enough to win a national championship. Do you really believe this is a championship defense?
Click to expand...
I don't believe this defense is a championship defense, but the great thing about this year is that hardly anyone has a championship level defense. The only D playing at that level is Alabama and even they have some holes.

I do believe that the defense is just good enough to win a championship though.
 
Upvote 0
leek said:
This defense doesn't pass the look test. The 90's Silver Bullets and Tressel's 2000s defenses shut offenses down, especially rush offenses. This defense seems to be soft in comparison.

OTOH, I noticed a post you made recently where you assert this team is good enough to win a national championship. Do you really believe this is a championship defense?
Click to expand...

How many silver bullets defenses of the 90s and 2000s faced spread offenses? I doubt our best DBs and LBs would still not be giving up check of yards if they were on islands, and had to deal with new rules in the passing game. Spread out wide, man to man is very difficult to defend, teams of years past lined up in more traditional pro style formations, not much wildcat, exotic uses for slot WRs, or creative mismatches.
 
Upvote 0
It still appears to be issues similar to last year with the defense that have raised an ugliness at a bad time. While the pass defense has greatly improved, the run defense still has gap control issues. Once a back breaks through the initial line of attack and into the back 7 we struggle. I saw a lot of arm tackling and reaching yesterday, along with the afore mentioned bad pursuit angles. No reason with the QB and receivers that IU has we couldn't have been more aggressive on stopping the run with our safeties.
 
Upvote 0
pnuts34 said:
How many silver bullets defenses of the 90s and 2000s faced spread offenses? I doubt our best DBs and LBs would still not be giving up check of yards if they were on islands, and had to deal with new rules in the passing game. Spread out wide, man to man is very difficult to defend, teams of years past lined up in more traditional pro style formations, not much wildcat, exotic uses for slot WRs, or creative mismatches.
Click to expand...

I think they faced them more often than many people realize. Purdue, Texas Tech, Washington State, Northwestern among others and that was just the 2002 team!


The spread isn't new.
 
Upvote 0
LordJeffBuck said:
No, but if they make the playoffs, they might be able to outscore everybody else.
Click to expand...
Yes- I guess that's the only way and it is a possibility.

I find this defense and all of the Buckeye defenses since 2011 disappointing by Buckeye standards. Perhaps we underestimated Jim Heacock or the previous defensive staff? Maybe as you pointed out, the conservative offenses of the past helped to protect them. I don't really know but something has been wrong for a few years.
 
Upvote 0
Ask yourself this question - would we beat Oregon on a neutral field? I don't care how we may or may not win, but can we win? Are we truly a better overall team? We'll only know if the game is played, but I struggle to be confident in that result. That game may be played this season, and I hope it is. But take all the bias away from the home team and break it down. I think we can play with almost anyone, and we're a really good team, but our defense is still a considerable weakness that is harder and harder to defend (other than "defenses just don't play like they used to..."). We need to be much better.

When we played the Ducks in the Rose Bowl a few years back, we had a much stronger, more physical defense. That played a big factor in that game. Oregon's offensive style isn't much different now, arguably a little faster. I just don't see us controlling that game. Hope I'm wrong.
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top