WolverineMike
Head Coach
This thread was way more entertaining than the draft, and it's only day 1.
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- Thread starter bigdog3300
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This thread was way more entertaining than the draft, and it's only day 1.
ArmyVet83
Prepare yourselves. For now, I summon...the end!
OK. It took me the evening and a decent nights rest to try and wrap my head around Cleveland's draft. So let me see if I got this right.
1. Traded back to #9 (with Buffalo). Also received their 2015 1st and 4th round picks. Then traded up to # 8 with Minnesota and gave up #9 and a 5th rounder to pick Justin GIlbert.
I will state up front, I wanted Watkins or Mack. The trade with the Bills wasn't to bad. Added another #1 and a 4th round pick next year, plus the draft this year is deep with WR and OLB. The trade with the Vikings has me confused. Move up one position and give up a 5th rounder for a guy they probably could have picked up at 9? IMO, this trade did not have to happen to pick up Gilbert.
The pick: The Browns got, arguably, the best cover corner in the draft. I think this kid will be a very nice compliment to Haden. However, this draft have some very good corners that could be picked up in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Based on the trades made and who the Browns picked, I will give this pick a B - .
2. Gave up #26 and their second 3rd round pick to move up 4 spots to pick Johnny Football. Honestly, I did not see Philly, KC, Cincy, or SD selecting JM. Why give up a 3rd pick to move 4 slots for a guy, again that would have been available at 26? Knee jerk move? Maybe. Regardless, if JM learns, plays smarter and stays healthy, this will be a great pick. Talent is not a question here, it's durability. I will give this pick a B.
Overall not bad. Filled two needs and picked up a 1st round pick next year which trumps the 3rd and 5th given up this year.
1. Traded back to #9 (with Buffalo). Also received their 2015 1st and 4th round picks. Then traded up to # 8 with Minnesota and gave up #9 and a 5th rounder to pick Justin GIlbert.
I will state up front, I wanted Watkins or Mack. The trade with the Bills wasn't to bad. Added another #1 and a 4th round pick next year, plus the draft this year is deep with WR and OLB. The trade with the Vikings has me confused. Move up one position and give up a 5th rounder for a guy they probably could have picked up at 9? IMO, this trade did not have to happen to pick up Gilbert.
The pick: The Browns got, arguably, the best cover corner in the draft. I think this kid will be a very nice compliment to Haden. However, this draft have some very good corners that could be picked up in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Based on the trades made and who the Browns picked, I will give this pick a B - .
2. Gave up #26 and their second 3rd round pick to move up 4 spots to pick Johnny Football. Honestly, I did not see Philly, KC, Cincy, or SD selecting JM. Why give up a 3rd pick to move 4 slots for a guy, again that would have been available at 26? Knee jerk move? Maybe. Regardless, if JM learns, plays smarter and stays healthy, this will be a great pick. Talent is not a question here, it's durability. I will give this pick a B.
Overall not bad. Filled two needs and picked up a 1st round pick next year which trumps the 3rd and 5th given up this year.
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Anyone else uncomfortable with the positivity in a browns draft discussion? Next thing you know Jax will be spitting out encouraging words in the reds thread.
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Here are my thoughts on the first round:
The good: The Browns didn't waste the #4 pick on Sammie Watkins; they absolutely raped Buffalo to trade down five spots.
The neutral: I like the Browns picking a cornerback, a definite position of need. However, I don't see how Justin Gilbert, the least physical corner of the first rounders, fits into Pettine's philosophy of tough, smash-mouthed football. Darqueze Dennard, maybe even Bradley Roby, seemed to be the better fit, although obviously both would have been a reach at #8. As things turned out, Taylor Lewan at #9 and Roby at #26 (or a trade up to #22 for Dennard) might have made more sense. The Browns also drafted a quarterback, another position of need (but see below).
The bad: Johnny Football. This smells like a Haslam move designed to market the team, not to win football games. Manziel has the biggest bust potential of any player in this draft. Manziel instantly makes the Browns "relevant" but in a bad way - the circus is now in town. Unless he gets injured in preseason (a distinct possibility), Manziel is your opening day starter regardless of what Hoyer does. Finally, I simply don't see how a prima donna like Manziel is going to work well with a disciplinarian like Pettine.
Mike Pettine: "We want guys who love football as opposed to guys who love what football does for them."
NFL.com on Johnny Manziel: "Is known to party too much and is drawn to all the trappings of the game."
The good: The Browns didn't waste the #4 pick on Sammie Watkins; they absolutely raped Buffalo to trade down five spots.
The neutral: I like the Browns picking a cornerback, a definite position of need. However, I don't see how Justin Gilbert, the least physical corner of the first rounders, fits into Pettine's philosophy of tough, smash-mouthed football. Darqueze Dennard, maybe even Bradley Roby, seemed to be the better fit, although obviously both would have been a reach at #8. As things turned out, Taylor Lewan at #9 and Roby at #26 (or a trade up to #22 for Dennard) might have made more sense. The Browns also drafted a quarterback, another position of need (but see below).
The bad: Johnny Football. This smells like a Haslam move designed to market the team, not to win football games. Manziel has the biggest bust potential of any player in this draft. Manziel instantly makes the Browns "relevant" but in a bad way - the circus is now in town. Unless he gets injured in preseason (a distinct possibility), Manziel is your opening day starter regardless of what Hoyer does. Finally, I simply don't see how a prima donna like Manziel is going to work well with a disciplinarian like Pettine.
Mike Pettine: "We want guys who love football as opposed to guys who love what football does for them."
NFL.com on Johnny Manziel: "Is known to party too much and is drawn to all the trappings of the game."
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I loved the trade down. That was a huge haul to move down five spots and I wasn't sold on any of the conventional wisdom options at #4.
I didn't like the move to trade up one spot. That move never makes sense. If the other team is willing to do a deal like that it means they don't really want the guy you're gonna pick and you're giving away assets for nothing. I think GMs who do this talk themselves into the idea that another team likes a guy as much as they do, and that they can essentially buy that other team out. How many teams would let themselves be bought out of picking a guy they are targeting when they are on the clock? I'm not sure the Browns will really miss the 5th rounder they gave up, but they should have stood pat at #9 regardless.
I loved the pick of Gilbert though. I've been dying for the Browns to get a top-quality CB to partner up with Joe Haden, and they finally did it. I am of the belief that in order to compete in the NFL you have to hang your hat on something - you have to establish a beachhead in terms of having a top-5 unit somewhere on your team. I've thought that the secondary would be the most attainable way for the Browns to achieve that, so I'm happy with the moves the Browns have been making in that area this offseason.
As for Money Badger... I find him unlikable as a person. I'm not sold on him as a player in the NFL. I don't entirely hate the pick though. At #4 he would have been a tremendous reach. At #22 he could represent a value pick. I do think that if this is the guy they really wanted at QB that they were smart to move up from #26 to get him. I think KC might have had an eye on picking him. I'm actually encouraged by the pick in a way. The Browns are taking an aggressive risk by picking him. In that way he's the opposite of any of the other QBs they've picked since 1999, all of whom I think the organization considered to be "safe" options. It may work out miserably just like all the others, but at least the Browns are showing they have balls.
I didn't like the move to trade up one spot. That move never makes sense. If the other team is willing to do a deal like that it means they don't really want the guy you're gonna pick and you're giving away assets for nothing. I think GMs who do this talk themselves into the idea that another team likes a guy as much as they do, and that they can essentially buy that other team out. How many teams would let themselves be bought out of picking a guy they are targeting when they are on the clock? I'm not sure the Browns will really miss the 5th rounder they gave up, but they should have stood pat at #9 regardless.
I loved the pick of Gilbert though. I've been dying for the Browns to get a top-quality CB to partner up with Joe Haden, and they finally did it. I am of the belief that in order to compete in the NFL you have to hang your hat on something - you have to establish a beachhead in terms of having a top-5 unit somewhere on your team. I've thought that the secondary would be the most attainable way for the Browns to achieve that, so I'm happy with the moves the Browns have been making in that area this offseason.
As for Money Badger... I find him unlikable as a person. I'm not sold on him as a player in the NFL. I don't entirely hate the pick though. At #4 he would have been a tremendous reach. At #22 he could represent a value pick. I do think that if this is the guy they really wanted at QB that they were smart to move up from #26 to get him. I think KC might have had an eye on picking him. I'm actually encouraged by the pick in a way. The Browns are taking an aggressive risk by picking him. In that way he's the opposite of any of the other QBs they've picked since 1999, all of whom I think the organization considered to be "safe" options. It may work out miserably just like all the others, but at least the Browns are showing they have balls.
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Also, being in Cincinnati I was surrounded by Bengals fans at the bar where I was watching the draft. They hated the Dennard pick and wanted Bridgewater. Those people were fucking morons. Dennard suits them perfectly at a position of need, and he probably should have been off the board already by the time their pick came up.
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LovelandBuckeye
You never lose to those pricks. Ever. Ever. - UFM
Now you know my pain being one of them. Some of the most ignorant amongst our fanbase.
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AuTX Buckeye
Founder & Pres of the Flemming/Holtmann Fan Club
Yahoo Pickem Champ
Former Game Champion
Heard on the radio this morning that in Houston at the draft party the crowd of 10k people cheered every time they showed Clowney before the pick was in, and boo'd every time they showed Jony... when the most QB needy teams fans dont want you and you played in their home state... that says a lot
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AuTX Buckeye
Founder & Pres of the Flemming/Holtmann Fan Club
Yahoo Pickem Champ
Former Game Champion
at the bolded. What teams did you think needed a qb? This is my list Texans, Jags, Raiders, Tennessee, Vikings, Tampa (I could give you tampa but stilll McCown & Glennon), Jets, Bears (Yea given Culters history they need someone), Zona. I'll give you Tampa, Jets & Bears those are a bit of a stretch but ALL Of the other teams passed on him... hell Zona traded DOWN when they coulda had him.How bout this, since you brought up how much Gruden and "Other QB guru's" love him, how bout you post some of their comments about Jony. Then go back and look at their track record for the guys they fall in love with.
Remember who Gruden won a superbowl with? Brad Johnson, remember all the QBs he went through lets see (these were just the starters during his tenure), Brad Johnson, Rob Johnson, Shaun King, Brian Griese, Chris Simms, Bruce Gradkowski, Tim Rattay, Jeff Garcia, Luke McCown that was just Tampa. Oakland was a little better but he bailed quickly, Rich Gannon, Wade Wilson, JEFF GEORGE, Donald Hollas. Looking at that list of starting QBs from 10 years of coaching, only ONCE did he have the same starting QB for 2 consecutive seasons. Looking at it now, Gruden was fated to become the Browns coach... i dont know how it didn't happen.
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WolverineMike
Head Coach
any other buckeyes left that entered the draft? I know UM still has Gallon and Schofield that will probably get drafted in later rounds. Just curious who osu still has out there with Roby and Shazier gone.
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Hyde and Mewhort are likely day 2 picks. Linsley will probably go day 3. Bryant, Philly Brown, Norwell, Hall, Barnett, Guiton are all likely UFAs or late picks.
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AuTX Buckeye
Founder & Pres of the Flemming/Holtmann Fan Club
Yahoo Pickem Champ
Former Game Champion
from my aggy buddy then this
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tsteele316
Mr. Such and Such
i don't think a fanbase at a draft party is a good gauge of whether or not a pick is good.
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