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2012 Defense Discussion

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I still remember that first one-on-one interview on BTN with Coach Meyer and Gerry DiNardo last Fall. Meyer said his first instinct was to take a firehose to the entire previous coaching staff (minus Drayton), and then he talked to Luke and Vrabel.

I don't even know where to turn at this point, because it seems like both a player and coaching thing.

Meyer can't build a championship squad having to score 40+ in all games to win.
 
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In 7 games, The 2012 defense has already given up 30 plays of 20+ yards:

20-29 yards: 16 plays
30-39 yards: 6 plays
40-49 yards: 1 play
50-59 yards: 3 plays
60-69 yards: 0 plays
70-79 yards: 3 plays
80-81 yards: 1 play

By comparison, in 13 games, the 2010 defense gave up just 32 plays of 20+ yards:

20-29 yards: 23 plays
30-39 yards: 7 plays
40-42 yards: 2 plays

The 2010 defense did not give up a play longer than 42 yards, and six of the 20+ plays were surrendered in the Sugar Bowl to Arkansas, a top-ten offense.

The 2010 defense gave up 186 points in 13 games.
 
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bukIpower;2234754; said:
I meant at the year end of course. Changing coaches now would do nothing that would benefit the team. At years end and with a whole off season to prepare for we should be ready to go in 2013'. I do not see us getting any better if we are getting worse as the season goes and it sucks to say but it can't look good for some our defensive coaches.

I'm just happy that we hired Herman on offense and our OL coach because the offense is keeping this team afloat. I'm not sure how many wins we'd have if our offense wasn't playing well.
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That's what we just did this past year. Withers came in and rewrote a lot of what heacock/fickell had run since 2005, and then recruited a lot of bodies to fit the scheme.

So, ten months later, what do we have? Fickell/heacock players fitting like square pegs into this new system that withers/fickell installed. Unfortunately, the solution is not as easy as starting the 11 freshmen who've seen the field.

But at least those 11 (plus Pittman and Ty Powell) are learning the system they've been recruited for. To blow it up again this winter would force them to learn another new scheme, wasting the 2012 teaching year.

In short, install maybe a couple month process, but learning to play to your ability might be a couple year process. You can't go full-retard (or Lerner) and constantly have your finger on the reset button.
 
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TheStoicPaisano;2234861; said:
That's what we just did this past year. Withers came in and rewrote a lot of what heacock/fickell had run since 2005, and then recruited a lot of bodies to fit the scheme.

So, ten months later, what do we have? Fickell/heacock players fitting like square pegs into this new system that withers/fickell installed. Unfortunately, the solution is not as easy as starting the 11 freshmen who've seen the field.

But at least those 11 (plus Pittman and Ty Powell) are learning the system they've been recruited for. To blow it up again this winter would force them to learn another new scheme, wasting the 2012 teaching year.

In short, install maybe a couple month process, but learning to play to your ability might be a couple year process. You can't go full-retard (or Lerner) and constantly have your finger on the reset button.
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Never-Go-Full-Retard.jpg
 
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ant80;2234780; said:
This worries me about our D's quality next year as well. We whiffed on major LB recruits for the 2013 recruiting class. We probably have a some quality LB's coming for the 2014 class, but we have to make do with what we have at hand for the next season. Seeing our LB play yesterday, that thought scares me to death.
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The 2010 scUM defense was a disaster.

Cut to 2011, they bring in a good coordinator, and suddenly they have a respectable, if still flawed personnel-wise unit. But there's no denying their defense was night-day from the year before.

Coaching means a helluva lot in college football. Maybe moreso than any other sport.

Bottom line, there are personnel issues, but I think coaching is as big, if not bigger issue at this time. I'm not going to point fingers or assign blame to individuals, but I think there is some serious underachieving going on here...regardless of recent attrition. We are most certainly thin in some key areas, but there is some young talent that is not seeing the field. You have to question why. I think it's a combination of kids maybe struggling adjusting to college life, and probably some failures of the staff to get them ready enough to at least see the field.

I think if things don't turn around quickly, there will be significant turnover on the defensive staff this winter. As there should be.

I also think the scheme is largely garbage right now.
 
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It's a blend of some new things and a lot of the old defense we've always had so I'm not buying that we're learning a new system and thats what's causing this. Infact I'd be surprised if this defense is more than 20% new compared to last years principles.

I don't think Urban is just going to sit by and accept that this was a year of learning the defense. If they don't do something, anything, in the next 5 games I would not be surprised if some staffing changes are made sometime in Late December.

Serious question for you guys. If there is someone like Gene Chizik who gets fired at Auburn (odds are he will be) don't you guys think that's going to be hard for Urban to pass up if there's mutual interest?
 
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I may be in te minority here but I like our young LB's. I think the current ones aren't quite what we're use to but I see a lot of potential with Guys like Jamal Marcus, David Perkins, and Cam Williams. I think Shazier will be fine and If we can get the younger guys some reps I believe the LBs will be fine.

Which is why I hate the move of Boren to LBer. If we're gonna give up 500+ yards to Indiana/UAB then why not give up 500+ yards and get vital reps for the young guys. Especially Jamal Marcus and Perkins who I feel have that Speed/Atheltic ability that we need when facing a spread you out offense. Not to mention Boren is a devastating blocker for our offense and is a good saftey valvue in the passing game.
 
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Yeah, if you have a big swinging dick available like chizik or coach boom, you make an effort to land them. How often does that happen, however?

Maybe I'm being too easy on withers/fickell, but one year is not enough time. I'd wager that Meyer has very rarely hired/retained and then fired a coach after a solitary season.
 
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ant80;2234780; said:
This worries me about our D's quality next year as well. We whiffed on major LB recruits for the 2013 recruiting class. We probably have a some quality LB's coming for the 2014 class, but we have to make do with what we have at hand for the next season. Seeing our LB play yesterday, that thought scares me to death.
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Funny that you bring up recruiting classes. I wonder if anyone knows if the same defensive issues occurred in urbans first years at Utah and Florida. And it has been well documented that by year 2, his teams have finally all bought into his philosophy. We should all realize that this isn't urbans team per se. These are all for the most part inherited players for aanother coach. I'm hoping that these frosh that aren't getting it yet, will have the proverbial light switch turn on in their sophomore years. It seemed to be the key with Meyer s past teams. And to me, it does seem that our osu team in urban first year seems to be further along than his Utah and Florida teams in their first years
 
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TheStoicPaisano;2234877; said:
Yeah, if you have a big swinging dick available like chizik or coach boom, you make an effort to land them. How often does that happen, however?

Maybe I'm being too easy on withers/fickell, but one year is not enough time. I'd wager that Meyer has very rarely hired/retained and then fired a coach after a solitary season.
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I'd be more understanding if this defense was really young but for the most part they're pretty experienced and for the most part we have some good talent (especially on the DL and at CB). No shot for the current staff if we don't make significant strides by/through the Michigan game.

It'll be interesting to see though what happens if we keep this up and someone as quality as Chizik becomes available. No way we keep what we have if we can land someone like that.
 
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bukIpower;2234905; said:
I'd be more understanding if this defense was really young but for the most part they're pretty experienced and for the most part we have some good talent (especially on the DL and at CB). No shot for the current staff if we don't make significant strides by/through the Michigan game.

It'll be interesting to see though what happens if we keep this up and someone as quality as Chizik becomes available. No way we keep what we have if we can land someone like that.
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Pelini?
 
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