2012 Defense Discussion

[BuckeyeFan 52]

Let's call a spade a spade. My intent is not to bash here, but the fact is, this team is simply not as talented as it ought to be, especially on the defensive side of the ball. I'm not in love with Fick as the DC, but our staff on that side of the ball is much much better than the product that has been on the field the first 4 weeks. Fiick was here when OSU defenses played like an OSU defense should (it's wasn't all Heacock).

Fick has been around guys named Gamble, Doss, Peterson, Smith, Grant, Wilhelm, Hawk, Carpenter, Whitner, Youbuty, Salley, Laurinitis, etc., etc. Among many others. Solid, defensive talent. Just my opinion, but I don't see that past level of talent on this current squad, especially on the back end. We have some good individual athletes on defense (Simon/Hankins), but not near what we need for a large Division 1 program w/the expectations of Ohio State.

Again, simply my opinion. Maybe we don't play man-coverage b/c our corners aren't strong or physical enough to handle it and get it done? Or is it b/c our front 4 struggles to push the pocket consistently? We do some things well, but as a whole, we are extremely average. It's easy to point the finger at the coaching staff. But at this level, talent wins 90% of the time. I think the staff is approaching each game knowing what they have and what they may not have in terms of personnel. Who are the leaders of this defense? We can't have just 1 (Simon). We need 11 of them. We need fast, physical, fundamentally sound football players. We're used to seeing that, I don't see it in this bunch. I hope I'm wrong. I don't believe our issue is scheme. I believe it's the fact that our guys just may not be able to get the job done week in and week out.

UFM will get it right. It will take time. Guys like Washington, Spence, Perkins, Reeves, Marcus look the part, but obviously entirely too early. There's a reason we're seeing so much defensive talent commit to tOSU. UFM is going to fix this problem.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

Not sure I agree with this at all. Think the front 4 saved our ass a lot today and this season.

In addition, I can't help but feel that the entire line is also being asked to focus more on the run to help cover for the inadequacies at linebacker and that contributes to the lack of pass rush.

 

[1926Buckeyes]

Let's call a spade a spade. My intent is not to bash here, but the fact is, this team is simply not as talented as it ought to be, especially on the defensive side of the ball. I'm not in love with Fick as the DC, but our staff on that side of the ball is much much better than the product that has been on the field the first 4 weeks. Fiick was here when OSU defenses played like an OSU defense should (it's wasn't all Heacock).

Fick has been around guys named Gamble, Doss, Peterson, Smith, Grant, Wilhelm, Hawk, Carpenter, Whitner, Youbuty, Salley, Laurinitis, etc., etc. Among many others. Solid, defensive talent. Just my opinion, but I don't see that past level of talent on this current squad, especially on the back end. We have some good individual athletes on defense (Simon/Hankins), but not near what we need for a large Division 1 program w/the expectations of Ohio State.

Again, simply my opinion. Maybe we don't play man-coverage b/c our corners aren't strong or physical enough to handle it and get it done? Or is it b/c our front 4 struggles to push the pocket consistently? We do some things well, but as a whole, we are extremely average. It's easy to point the finger at the coaching staff. But at this level, talent wins 90% of the time. I think the staff is approaching each game knowing what they have and what they may not have in terms of personnel. Who are the leaders of this defense? We can't have just 1 (Simon). We need 11 of them. We need fast, physical, fundamentally sound football players. We're used to seeing that, I don't see it in this bunch. I hope I'm wrong. I don't believe our issue is scheme. I believe it's the fact that our guys just may not be able to get the job done week in and week out.

UFM will get it right. It will take time. Guys like Washington, Spence, Perkins, Reeves, Marcus look the part, but obviously entirely too early. There's a reason we're seeing so much defensive talent commit to tOSU. UFM is going to fix this problem.

Whatever it is, I have a feeling that it won't be fully resolved for a few years, which is disappointing because OSU is set up for title runs with Miller in '13 and '14. We're probably going to see some defenses full of talented, but very young players that are going to continue to make mistakes. The DL loses 4 this year (I'm assuming Hankins leaves to be a top 10 draft pick), the LBs lose 2, and the DBs lose at least 2. That's going to be tough to hide next year when you're starting a majority of sophomores on the DL. I'm really hoping Roby comes back.

 

[Buckeye513]

Tackling has been horrid and the coverage schemes are too soft. There's no reason why this should take years to fix.

 

[1926Buckeyes]

Tackling has been horrid and the coverage schemes are too soft. There's no reason why this should take years to fix.

I say years because even though you can correct tackling and coverage issues with some players this year, you're going to have new, young players next year and so maybe it won't be tackling, but it's going to be something else caused by inexperience.

 

[bukIpower]

It won't take years to fix. If it does that means our players really aren't very good because if it goes on for more than 1 year the entire defensive staff will be let go.

our corners aren't physical enough to play man? come on now. Both are plenty fast enough and physical enough we're just afraid to be beat deep for TD's.

 

[Buckeye513]

I say years because even though you can correct tackling and coverage issues with some players this year, you're going to have new, young players next year and so maybe it won't be tackling, but it's going to be something else caused by inexperience.

I remember the Crimson Fuckwads getting torched for 350+ yards 6 or 7 times during Saban's first season, a few times for 400+. They replaced 6 starters from that '07 defense and since then they haven't been ranked worse than 5th.

They're having a terrible year. I don't see the point in projecting what they're going to look like next year or even at the end of the season because the problems seem to be simple and not necessarily related to a systemic lack of talent.

 

[bukIpower]

I'm a big believer in doing it at a smaller level before getting your shot at the big time schools. In saying that Fickell hasn't been a coordinator anywhere and much like last year as HC he is learning on the fly. This just isn't the school where you cut your teeth at though, if there isn't vast improvement by the defense by years end and we continue this 400+ yards per game BS he will be out. Maybe he stays on as LB coach or something or perhaps is gone all together. I personally do not feel it's a lack of talent. While i'm not a huge fan of Sabino and in particular Bryant/Barnette we've fielded worse talent in the past and gotten atleast serviceable results from them.

On offense we seem to be purposely avoiding our strength which is getting Braxton 12+ carries and moving him around.

I was watching LSU/Auburn today and it struck me. For as much speed as both teams have on offense both of those teams defense you could see 8-9 guys within 7 yards of the LOS. They know they can hold up ok out wide and besides, with that much pressure being brough they don't have the time to really go for the deep ball much anyways.

Like Urban said, far to passive.

 

[1926Buckeyes]

I remember the Crimson [censored]wads getting torched for 350+ yards 6 or 7 times during Saban's first season, a few times for 400+. They replaced 6 starters from that '07 defense and since then they haven't been ranked worse than 5th.

They're having a terrible year. I don't see the point in projecting what they're going to look like next year or even at the end of the season because the problems seem to be simple and not necessarily related to a systemic lack of talent.

Makes sense. Hopefully they figure it out.

 

[TheStoicPaisano]

It won't take years to fix. If it does that means our players really aren't very good because if it goes on for more than 1 year the entire defensive staff will be let go.

our corners aren't physical enough to play man? come on now. Both are plenty fast enough and physical enough we're just afraid to be beat deep for TD's.

They made a concerted effort to blitz and play more M2M against Cal. The Bears responded by running a bunch of crosses and pick plays and snuck behind the defense. Once they reverted to the typical zone in the second half, they didn't allow so many big plays, and Bryant came up with the pick at the end. Fulton at 11W has a great write up from Cal.

Today, they played the usual off coverage and gave up a ton of yards but zero touchdowns and were +2 on turnovers.

The staff has tried mixing it up but they'll going to revert to the habits with which they've had success. From the press conference, it seems UM is going to challenge them to jam & release and blitz.

I'm not worried about Howard or Roby jamming the crap out of Fowler and Arnett. I am worried about a lot of jailbreak screens to Bell or Dion Sims matched up on 190 lb. Corey Brown or Doran Grant.

I guess the game theory is what makes football fun.

 

[bukIpower]

we're all the experts right?

I know we blitzed a lot against Cal and they had some good calls to counter it but i'd have to watch again because I didn't notice close M2M coverage. We may have been in man but I could'a swore it was 10 yards off still.

I'm talkig about the outside guys up and jammin their guys, disrupt that timing between the WR/QB. We don't do a lot of in your face M2M it's similar positioning to our 10 yard cusion just we play man instead (atleast from what I thought we did) if we were in tight coverage though for the most part against Cal then yeah we're fucked lol.

 

[TheStoicPaisano]

No, they weren't jamming by any stretch (I wouldn't want even Roby throwing hands on Allen constantly). The picks were a constant problem and the zone is a good way to counter it. Maynard would just dump the ball over the DL when we blitzed.

As we've seen since JT has been here, it's a lot of yardage between the 20s and not much after that.

Like I said, the CBs don't concern me, but I worry about the DL getting too anxious and exposing themselves to screens. I'm interested in how they play Sims.

Besides the tackling issue, I'm really surprised there's not more rotation on the d-line. Washington and spence are essentially pass situation guys, but I think Schutt and miller can handle being rotational rather than situational players. Suffice to say I'm not a fan of Nate/Hankins/Goebel/Simon getting 90% of the snaps and hale being the only body rotating in. Guys are gonna get fried, and you could see it today with John getting chippy a couple times. Hell, Goebel and Nate both had minor tweaks that were the only reason Schutt/Spence got any meaningful snaps.

 

[Taosman]

There were better angles in pursuit this week but the tackling is still awful. So there is improvement. In theory the tackling should improve as we move along. I saw more gang tackling also.
Nathan Williams hasn't tackled in a while so that's his excuse and he did improve as the game went along.
Howard wiffs on tackles more than just about anyone, so as a senior I guess that's just who he is.
The young guys(like Shazier,Grant.Bryant) will gradually get better.
We played without two of our best guys in the secondary(Roby,Barnett) yesterday and survived. Arguably two of our best on defense.
We are still a very young team with injuries so there is an ugly process we are working through. :tongue2:

 

[Jaxbuck]

Tackling has been horrid and the coverage schemes are too soft. There's no reason why this should take years to fix.

add in the DL rotation (or lack thereof) and you have my concerns in full

Fickell and Vrabel are burning through their goodwill like sailors on shore leave.

 

[LitlBuck]

This drives me crazy. If the head coach wants the DBs to play tighter coverage on WRs coming off the LOS why isn't it done Any decent QB can make that pass for a 5 yard gain when our DBs seem to be so concerned about getting beat deep which is a much more difficult throw .

?I think we seem like a very passive team,? Ohio State coach Urban Meyer said after his team overcame a stiff challenge from winless Alabama-Birmingham.

Passive.
Definitely not good.

?We?re on defense, we give up little screens, little bubbles,? Meyer said. ?They didn?t score a touchdown on our defense, but we gave up a lot of yardage. That hurts. I sit there, I?m pained watching it. We?ve got to be more aggressive on defense and play a little snugger coverage.

more http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/stories/2012/09/23/buckeyes-not-making-progress.html