2011 Masters

[Steve19]

Charl Schwartzel met Jack Nicklaus for the first time when the two played in the Els For Autism golf tournament in South Florida early last year, an introduction brokered by the Sunshine Tour's Johann Rupert. Schwartzel made polite conversation about hunting, which he knew was one of Jack's interests, until Rupert suggested they discuss how to play Augusta National, which Schwartzel would see for the first time in April 2010. Jack talked; Charl listened.

The meeting paid big dividends at one of the wildest Masters ever Sunday, when nine players, including three Australians and Tiger Woods, had an arm in the green jacket. In the end it was the unheralded Schwartzel who birdied the last four holes to shoot 66 for a 14-under total and a two-shot win over Jason Day (68) and Adam Scott (67) at the 75th Masters.

"It's such a special feeling I don't even know where to start," said Schwartzel, who learned the game from his dad, a former club pro who now sells eggs and corn from his farm in South Africa. "This morning - you know I'd never been in that situation before in a major - I felt surprisingly calm."

With Louis Oosthuizen's victory at the British Open last July, South Africans have won two of the last three majors. He and Schwartzel competed and traveled together as boys; it's no coincidence they've won majors nine months apart.

"We play almost every single practice round together," Schwartzel said. "So we know where our level of golf is, and to see him do it made me realize that it is possible."

Read more: http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,2064410,00.html#ixzz1JEFe1KRi
​

Buckeye connection...

 

[sparcboxbuck]

Buckeye connection...

We'll add .5 to Jack's total now.

 

[RB07OSU]

My brief commentary on Tiger/Jack Nicklaus' record/The Masters. What a great finish.

 

[JohnnyCockfight]

I felt so sick for Rory that I had to stop watching before they interviewed him. It kind of reminded me of what I felt for our football players in the national title debacle against Florida. I really hope he bounces back and allows his talent to win some majors in the near future.

That being said, Schwartel downright earned his green jacket. His chip-in on the first hole kind of set the tone for the kind of day he went on to have.

 

[Gatorubet]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/110411

This man can fricking write

 

[cincibuck]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/110411

This man can fricking write

That may be, but when Tiger hits the ball and all the idiots start yelling, "Get in the hole! Get in the hole!" turn up the volume and see if you can hear me yelling, "Get in the water! Get in the water!"

I have no issue with Tiger per se, but a fair comparison of where he stands versus Jack seldom runs across the minds of journalists. There's more to a person's career than wins in the majors -- for example finishing in the top two, top three, top five and top ten comparisons -- comparisons in which Jack comes out well ahead of Tiger.

 

[BUCKYLE]

That may be, but when Tiger hits the ball and all the idiots start yelling, "Get in the hole! Get in the hole!" turn up the volume and see if you can hear me yelling, "Get in the water! Get in the water!"

I have no issue with Tiger per se, but a fair comparison of where he stands versus Jack seldom runs across the minds of journalists. There's more to a person's career than wins in the majors -- for example finishing in the top two, top three, top five and top ten comparisons -- comparisons in which Jack comes out well ahead of Tiger.

I love Jack, but I didn't get to watch him in his prime. I'd like Tiger to beat his records so I can get a taste of what your generation was lucky enough to witness...the greatest of all time.

 

[Buckeye86]

I love Jack, but I didn't get to watch him in his prime. I'd like Tiger to beat his records so I can get a taste of what your generation was lucky enough to witness...the greatest of all time.

Yes, but Jack played head to head with Gary Players with 9 major wins, Tom Watson with 8 major, Arnold Palmer with 7, Lee Trevino with 6, Seve Bellesteros with 5, Peter Thomson with 5, Raymond Floyd with 4, Billy Casper with 3, Hale Irwin with 3, and a whole bunch more with 3 or fewer that I just got too bored to finish going through.

Tiger, on the other hand, has gone against Phil Mickelson with 4, Vijay Singh with 3, Ernie Els with 3, Payne Stewart with 3, Padraig Harrington with 3, and several more with 2 or fewer.

So, has Tiger just been that dominant that no one else can compete, or is he going up against inferior competition compared to Jack.

I know that isn't exactly an original thought, but there it is again.

I think the fact that a bunch of relative no names have stepped forward to win majors since Tiger dropped off is supportive of the "inferior competition" argument.

 

[jlb1705]

Yes, but Jack played head to head with Gary Players with 9 major wins, Tom Watson with 8 major, Arnold Palmer with 7, Lee Trevino with 6, Seve Bellesteros with 5, Peter Thomson with 5, Raymond Floyd with 4, Billy Casper with 3, Hale Irwin with 3, and a whole bunch more with 3 or fewer that I just got too bored to finish going through.

Tiger, on the other hand, has gone against Phil Mickelson with 4, Vijay Singh with 3, Ernie Els with 3, Payne Stewart with 3, Padraig Harrington with 3, and several more with 2 or fewer.

So, has Tiger just been that dominant that no one else can compete, or is he going up against inferior competition compared to Jack.

I know that isn't exactly an original thought, but there it is again.

I think the fact that a bunch of relative no names have stepped forward to win majors since Tiger dropped off is supportive of the "inferior competition" argument.

I don't know that today's competition is necessarily inferior. I think that over time, golfers like Palmer, Nicklaus & Woods have contributed to the popularity of the game - not just on TV but in who plays the game and where they play it. Perhaps that has helped create a deeper field than what there has been in previous generations.

Schwartzel is as good an example as anybody of a "relative no-names" winning big, and he birdied the last four holes on Sunday to win at Augusta. To me that suggests something other than inferiority.

I'm not about to go digging for it, but I imagine there are statistics that could inform this discussion. I wonder how the median driving accuracy, GIR, putting average, birdies per round and bogeys per round would compare from one generation to the next.

 

[Buckeye86]

Schwartzel is as good an example as anybody of a "relative no-names" winning big, and he birdied the last four holes on Sunday to win at Augusta. To me that suggests something other than inferiority.

Any golfer in the PGA could birdie 4 holes in a row- obviously not all of them do it on the final four holes of the masters. Doing it once is great, doing it consistently for multiple years is greatness.

I think it boils down to more than fairways and greens in regulation. I think it comes down to competition. I believe a more telling statistic may be how many Sunday leads Tiger sat on while the field did absolutely nothing to challenge him vs. how many times Jack was fortunate enough to have that luxury.

Based on almost no actual facts, my impression is that Jack had a lot more work to do on Sunday to win his majors than Tiger has had.

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

Based on almost no actual facts

Spoken like a true internet veteran.

:p

 

[jlb1705]

Any golfer in the PGA could birdie 4 holes in a row- obviously not all of them do it on the final four holes of the masters. Doing it once is great, doing it consistently for multiple years is greatness.

I think it boils down to more than fairways and greens in regulation. I think it comes down to competition. I believe a more telling statistic may be how many Sunday leads Tiger sat on while the field did absolutely nothing to challenge him vs. how many times Jack was fortunate enough to have that luxury.

Based on almost no actual facts, my impression is that Jack had a lot more work to do on Sunday to win his majors than Tiger has had.

Conversely, how many Sunday leads has Tiger been able to erase? If the field is inferior, shouldn't he have done it at least once by now?

Note: I'm not arguing this for the sake of Tiger, but for the sake of defending the rest of the current field a bit. I'm inclined to think that the field Jack faced was a bit more top-heavy, while the current one makes up for what it lacks at the top end with depth.

 

[Buckeye86]

Conversely, how many Sunday leads has Tiger been able to erase? If the field is inferior, shouldn't he have done it at least once by now?

Conversely, if Tiger is great shouldn't he have been able to erase a Sunday lead by now? :p

If I find the info and find the spark, I will look through scorecards for some hard data to back up my general impressions, unless someone else wants to do it for me in the mean time.

That would be greeeeat.

 

[OH10]

The whole Tiger vs. Jack debate is impossible. Everything is different now but the size of the hole and the ball. The equipment has changed the game so much; the players have focused a lot more on their physique and athleticism; the courses are longers; and the game is significantly more popular, increasing the level depth.

 

[jlb1705]

Conversely, if Tiger is great shouldn't he have been able to erase a Sunday lead by now? :p

You won't find me disagreeing with that point. Like I said in the rest of my last post, I'm not arguing on behalf of Tiger, I'm arguing on behalf of the rest of the field. I think it's perfectly reasonable to think that Nicklaus is superior to Tiger without thinking that Tiger's present competition is significantly inferior.