2011 Masters

[Onebuckfan]

I know I am a contrarian but if Tiger surpasses Jack's major total it has no affect on what I think of Jack and should not diminish any thing Jack did. Just like a Hank passing the Babe did not diminish the Babes Career. Now Barry or Alex passiung Hank THAT is a different story

 

[SloopyHangOn]

I know I am a contrarian but if Tiger surpasses Jack's major total it has no affect on what I think of Jack and should not diminish any thing Jack did. Just like a Hank passing the Babe did not diminish the Babes Career. Now Barry or Alex passiung Hank THAT is a different story

On a bit of a sidebar, I'm pretty certain that the vast majority of baseball fans are pulling for Albert to break Barry's record to restore some semblance of dignity to the game.

I agree with you, however. It seems to be a popular opinion to hate Tiger Woods, but if he were to surpass Jack's record, I don't think anyone would want to put an asterisk by his name. That being said, surpassing Jack's record is not the same as surpassing Jack. While Tiger has done wonders for the game of golf, I don't think his legacy will be as legendary or as whole as Jack's.

 

[Gatorubet]

The only Masters I ever attended live was the '86 win by Jack. I was sitting at 15 all weekend. I almost had hearing loss after the crowd yelled when Seve put it in the drink, and that kind of cheering against someone was unheard of then - and now.

It was the most exciting day of sports I ever witnessed, and that includes all of my beloved Gator MNCs. Amazing day. Amazing athlete. Jack most definitely > tiger

 

[BB73]

I love Jack, but I didn't get to watch him in his prime. I'd like Tiger to beat his records so I can get a taste of what your generation was lucky enough to witness...the greatest of all time.

Fuck that noise. Jack is a Buckeye and a man full of class, and Tiger is neither.

 

[Wingate1217]

Conversely, how many Sunday leads has Tiger been able to erase? If the field is inferior, shouldn't he have done it at least once by now?

Note: I'm not arguing this for the sake of Tiger, but for the sake of defending the rest of the current field a bit. I'm inclined to think that the field Jack faced was a bit more top-heavy, while the current one makes up for what it lacks at the top end with depth.

None in a major...He has never won a major when he was not the leader after 54 holes....

 

[Wingate1217]

At this point in there careers both golfers have won 14 majors out of the 57 they participated in. This is from the winning of their first major (Tiger '97 Masters and Jack '62 US Open). It is going to be interesting from this point out as Jack won four more times ('78 British, '80 PGA & US Open, 86 Masters) and Tiger is not a spring chicken anymore at 35. He has however almost 2 years to get another victory to exceed Jack's pace.

I do believe that Jack's competition over his whole career exceeded what Tiger had to put up with especially in Tiger's early years on the tour.

 

[stowfan]

You won't find me disagreeing with that point. Like I said in the rest of my last post, I'm not arguing on behalf of Tiger, I'm arguing on behalf of the rest of the field. I think it's perfectly reasonable to think that Nicklaus is superior to Tiger without thinking that Tiger's present competition is significantly inferior.

I thought about for a few days now, and two things came to mind. The Maters was won by a 5'10" 170# guy who played the final round as if he had the balls of an elephant. Golf, and majors are about playing under pressure, and making putts.

When I thought back on Tiger's competition when he dominated, the following names came to mind, and there is a pattern:

Greg Norman
Colin Montgomery
Davis love lll
David Duvall
Sergio Garica

 

[BUCKYLE]

Fuck that noise. Jack is a Buckeye and a man full of class, and Tiger is neither.

Neither of which has anything to do with being the greatest golfer of all time.

 

[cincibuck]

Neither of which has anything to do with being the greatest golfer of all time.

Fine, how about this:
Sep. 13, 2009
By PGATOUR.COM Staff
In addition to his 73 wins on the PGA TOUR, Jack Nicklaus also finished second an impressive 58 times, including 19 in major championships. Although Tiger Woods is closing in on Nicklaus' wins total, he remains well behind the pace of Nicklaus' second-place wins total

More: Jack's record of 19 major runner- ups is one golf milestone that never will be topped. It's safer than Byron Nelson's 11 straight victories, a statement made unassailable now that Tiger has come within striking distance of Lord Byron a few times.
Here's how lopsided this contest is: If Tiger nails one major second a year in each of the next 10 years, he will still have only 15 runner- ups. He'd need five more. But he'd be 42 then and, if he really is human, perhaps facing declining skills.

And even more: 1. Jack Nicklaus
And here is the other golfer with five career PGA Championship titles. Nicklaus won in 1963, 1971, 1973, 1975 and 1980; he was also runner-up in 1964, 1965, 1974 and 1983 (four times being the record). When he won in 1980, Nicklaus set the record for largest margin of victory (seven strokes).
But Nicklaus' greatness in this event is best illustrated by considering a few other records he holds:
Most Top 3 finishes, 12 (seven more than the runner-up in this category)

Most Top 5 finishes, 14 (eight more than second place)

Most Top 10 finishes, 15 (five more than second place)

Most Top 25 finishes, 23 (five more than second place)
Jack Nicklaus is the greatest PGA Championship player ever.

 

[Wingate1217]

And even more: 1. Jack Nicklaus
And here is the other golfer with five career PGA Championship titles. Nicklaus won in 1963, 1971, 1973, 1975 and 1980; he was also runner-up in 1964, 1965, 1974 and 1983 (four times being the record). When he won in 1980, Nicklaus set the record for largest margin of victory (seven strokes).

Walter Hagan being the only other golfer with 5 PGA's. This was done in the match play era, versus the stroke play of today.....

 

[BB73]

Neither of which has anything to do with being the greatest golfer of all time.

Both of which are reasons for me to not root for Tiger. And whoever ends up with the most majors will be a big factor in the discussion of who is the greatest golfer ever.

I'd rather that most people end up believing that that distinction is held by a classy Buckeye than by the self-absorbed jerk that I perceive Tiger to be. But to each his own.

Edit - If I understand your perspective correctly, it would have been similar for me to root for Carl Lewis to break the records of Jesse Owens (and by records I mean number of Gold Medals and number of world records, not just posting better times/jumps). Because I didn't witness Owens' feats, but I could watch Carl Lewis, and it would be a kick to watch the 'best ever' in his field.

But I've never felt that way since Jesse Owens was a Buckeye, and also a class act, so I've never wanted to witness somebody exceed his accomplishments.

I can see your thinking from the perspective of watching Michael Phelps exceeding what Mark Spitz accomplished, for those that weren't around when Spitz did his thing. Of course, that would work better if Phelps never had an association with TSUN. :tongue2:

 

[jwinslow]

Neither of which has anything to do with being the greatest golfer of all time.

What's next? Will you be hoping Hoke turns out to be the Bo to JT's Woody? Clearly it will be worth it, what with you finally getting to witness it.

 

[BB73]

What's next? Will you be hoping Hoke turns out to be the Bo to JT's Woody? Clearly it will be worth it, what with you finally getting to witness it.

That would mean 21 years without a national championship for TSUN, so I might be OK with that one.

 

[SloopyHangOn]

I'm always pulling for records and accomplishments to be pushed and broken, regardless of who the previous record owner was. To me that signifies a growth in the sport and an evolution of the athlete over time. However, I hate to see a record be broken by someone who doesn't perpetuate the sport.

That's where the conversation splits for me, because Jack in EVERY way perpetuated the sport. Tiger has been to golf what Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa were to baseball in '98, a jolt of life in an otherwise dwindling spectator sport, but much like Mark and Sammy he has tainted the game by the way he's gone about it. Not so much cheating, like his baseball counterparts, but by disregarding the sanctity of golf in the ways that he has.

Do I think Tiger still has an opportunity to redeem himself at least a little bit?

Absolutely.

Do I think his legacy, regardless of his final number of major championships, will be as glorious as those who came before him?

Absolutely not.

But with that said, I do agree with Kyle that it would be a significant moment in the history of the sport to witness him pass Jack and would love to be around to witness that type of history go down...just like I enjoyed watching McGuire top Maris, Bonds top Aaron and Phelps top Spitz.

Would I love for my favorite people, or hell even some halfway decent people, to be the ones to break the records? Yea...but I'll take my witnessing a piece of history any way I can get it.

That's why I'm pulling for people like Pujols to surpass Bonds and am waiting patiently for the year they put the tight balls back in the MLB so some young gun can pass McGuire.

 

[BUCKYLE]

Both of which are reasons for me to not root for Tiger. And whoever ends up with the most majors will be a big factor in the discussion of who is the greatest golfer ever.

I'd rather that most people end up believing that that distinction is held by a classy Buckeye than by the self-absorbed jerk that I perceive Tiger to be. But to each his own.

Edit - If I understand your perspective correctly, it would have been similar for me to root for Carl Lewis to break the records of Jesse Owens (and by records I mean number of Gold Medals and number of world records, not just posting better times/jumps). Because I didn't witness Owens' feats, but I could watch Carl Lewis, and it would be a kick to watch the 'best ever' in his field.

But I've never felt that way since Jesse Owens was a Buckeye, and also a class act, so I've never wanted to witness somebody exceed his accomplishments.

I can your thinking from the perspective of watching Michael Phelps exceeding what Mark Spitz accomplished, for those that weren't around when Spitz did his thing. Of course, that would work better if Phelps never had an association with TSUN. :tongue2:

What's next? Will you be hoping Hoke turns out to be the Bo to JT's Woody? Clearly it will be worth it, what with you finally getting to witness it.

I'm not so much rooting for Tiger as I am expecting it to happen. And if it happens, I'd like to witness it. That's all. I'm a fan of Jack's. I'm not a huge fan of golf, so I'm not emotionally invested in the debate.

jwins, watch your soup cooler, Hooley! Like I said above, I'm nowhere near as interested in Golf overall as I am tOSU football. So fuck no, I don't wanna see that Flinstone do a fucking thing but continue the tradition DickRod laid down.