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2010 tOSU Recruiting Discussion

RB07OSU;1654937; said:
I don't really think calling it a down year is an opinion...we finished 20th nationally on Scout and 26th on Rivals.

Mainly because Scout and Rivals rank teams on some kind of overall-point-total calculation, which gives a significant weight to quantity of signees. Every team rated above us had more signees than OSU, but only 6 (on Scout) or 13 (on Rivals) had a higher per-recruit star average. And Of course, this all assumes that judging these classes on Scout/Rivals ranking is meaningful at all in the larger scheme of the program--which is not an opinion I share. And to look at this particular collection of 18 recruits and speak so negatively of it really shows just how pessimistic your perspective is.
 
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RB07OSU;1654937; said:
I don't think so honestly. It seemed to me we possibly put out more offers than normal, we just didn't produce the commitments. Then the guys we put most of our effort into recruiting went elsewhere.

I understand what you're saying, but I do think too few offers went out, and perhaps I can explain my thinking a bit better than before. I see recruiting as a fluid thing. Early on, the staff seems to evaluate talent and create an offer board with a hierarchy at each position of need. From that board, they then make initial offers to the best-of-the-best in-state, a handful of the best-of-the-best nationally, and a handful of really good national recruits that have some known connection to or adoration for Ohio State. Then they give it a little while to see what kind of response they get (particularly in the form of commits/silent commits, but also in terms of how interested those early offers seem to be).

Depending on the initial wave of response, other offers continue to trickle out. Visits and in-homes are made. Depending on the responses, more evaluations are made and new waves of offers are sent.

My point is that, for a long period of time, we gradually saw kids either push off their decisions or commit elsewhere. Those that remained uncommitted but supposedly interested were not primarily pipeline kids (aside from Bryant and Anderson, if Anderson actually qualifies) or recruits whose best offer was from tOSU, but were big-time 4 and 5 star recruits (mostly from out-of-state) that had incredibly competitive offer sheets. In other words, they were the kids OSU almost always misses out on late in the game. At this point, more offers should have gone out to cover our butt, but I don't think that really happened to the extent it should have.

So when I say that the staff was too selective with offers this season, I come to that conclusion by looking at the sheer number of offers sent out, but also by considering other circumstances (the nature of the recruits offered, the pattern of offers, etc.). In some years (hopefully 2011), 45 offers may be plenty for a 25-28 kid class. In other years, I'd like to see upwards of 75-90. Although this was bound to be a smaller class, when it became apparent we were going to be waiting until relatively late in the game for guys like Henderson, Hicks, Floyd, James, Anderson, Morgan and Joyner, I would have liked more offers to go out. Certainly, hold a few spots, because you'd like to land 2 or 3 of those guys late, but counting on almost all of them seemed somewhat unrealistic. It's a tough decision making process (that I think an early signing period could help with, BTW); do you promise a big time recruit that a spot will be held, or do you decide not to chance it and go after "good-not-great" prospects you feel more confident about wrapping up? Like I said, I think that we get 20 for this class if our offer sheet had gone up to about 75 or so--and I'm talking about offering legit 3 and perhaps 4 star caliber recruits that, although perhaps not as highly regarded by the staff as a Henderson or Joyner, could possibly contribute in a few years just like so many others have.

I want the best players, but if we can't get them, I don't want to miss altogether. That said, I can't help thinking the staff has really good early indications about 2011, so perhaps that played into their reluctance to send out more offers to lesser-valued prospects this go round.
 
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BayBuck;1654952; said:
And to look at this particular collection of 18 recruits and speak so negatively of it really shows just how pessimistic your perspective is.

You're missing his point. He's not speaking negatively of the 18 recruits that we got. You might want to read his posts a little more carefully.
 
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Thoughts About Our Recruiting Class

When it comes to a program like tOSU often times what makes a class truly special is the 2 or 3 recruits who fall into that "special" category which takes a program over the top. A Troy Smith, Teddy Ginn JR, M. Clarett type individuals.

While others have very solid contributions, whether on Offense, Defense or Special Teams, and this is vital for the stability and strong continuance of a program, it's the "difference makers" that turn a team into the elite status. Sometimes, just one guy can be the difference. Dennis Dixon is an example. When he played, Oregon was among the very best in the nation. When he went down, it was a different team all together.

I think we got one of those kind of players this year in Roderick Smith. I think the coaches found another guy in the likes of a Beanie, M. Clarett, E. George and Keith Byars. This guy is a BIG back that if he stays healthy (Beanie's problem) can literally take over a game, running the ball 25-35 times IF need be.

Call me idealistic or unrealistic (because he hasn't played a down of CFB yet) but I think that RS is going to be one of those "special" players, a true "difference maker" who is going to be a key ingredient to the Buckeye's once again playing for a NC in the not too distant future.

Though I like our two current RB's, I salivate at the thought of having TP, Roderick Smith and Jamaal Berry in the same backfield. I see all three of these guys as "special" players, and real difference makers, that would pose immense problems for any Defense.

It's an exciting time to be a Buckeye!!

:osu:

:oh:
 
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sepia5;1654958; said:
I want the best players, but if we can't get them, I don't want to miss altogether. That said, I can't help thinking the staff has really good early indications about 2011, so perhaps that played into their reluctance to send out more offers to lesser-valued prospects this go round.

I'm hoping this was the reason for the lack of offers for OL. The coaches must figure the depth they have right now can suffice for the next few years so they could wait on Hendersonk and James. And I assume with Moses they figured the juice was worth the squeeze talent wise so he was worthy. So maybe they figure those scholarships are better served banked for 2011 when they figure they can get comparable talent. (This is all conjecture, just what I hope the line of thought is ...)
 
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buckeyesin07;1654965; said:
You're missing his point. He's not speaking negatively of the 18 recruits that we got. You might want to read his posts a little more carefully.

If you don't think saying "We haven't had a class this down since '03 and it's debatable which was worse" about "this particular collection of 18 recruits" is being pretty negative about this class, it might be you who's missing something there. Poormouthing the class as a whole isn't the same as bashing the individual recruits, but it sure doesn't give them a lot of credit either.

Some years (2003, 2007, 2010) you just have fewer scholarships to work with, and that's going to get you a little lower in the Scout/Rivals rankings. We as fans can do whatever we want with the numbers: some might be disappointed for various reasons and say it's a "down year", I choose to celebrate our signees and will wait until after bowl games to worry about the rankings.
 
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03 was a disaster because no one stuck around.

Over 50% of the class was banished via injury or expulsion.

- Only 7 guys ranked above ***
- 4 were expelled
- 2 left after 3 years (one w/ 2 yrs left)
- 1 left after 4 years

If Irizarry sticks around, he continues the tradition of Hartsock. Not prolific, but steady contributions at TE.

If Maupin/Cotton don't wash out, OSU isn't forced to play underclassmen at DT and get pushed around in 07.
 
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BayBuck;1654992; said:
If you don't think saying "We haven't had a class this down since '03 and it's debatable which was worse" about "this particular collection of 18 recruits" is being pretty negative about this class, it might be you who's missing something there. Poormouthing the class as a whole isn't the same as bashing the individual recruits, but it sure doesn't give them a lot of credit either.

I don't know if you missed the part where he said that this was "a good class" or if you are simply choosing to ignore it because it doesn't jive with your insistence that he has a pessimistic perspective; regardless, characterizing a class as a "good" one certainly doesn't constitute "being pretty negative" or "poormouthing the class."

Some years (2003, 2007, 2010) you just have fewer scholarships to work with, and that's going to get you a little lower in the Scout/Rivals rankings. We as fans can do whatever we want with the numbers: some might be disappointed for various reasons and say it's a "down year", I choose to celebrate our signees and will wait until after bowl games to worry about the rankings.

I think it's possible both to celebrate our signees and to say that we missed on a lot of recruits we targeted this year and so maybe the staff needs to rethink some of its approaches to recruiting. I'm not sure why you think those two concepts are mutually exclusive.
 
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BayBuck;1654992; said:
If you don't think saying "We haven't had a class this down since '03 and it's debatable which was worse" about "this particular collection of 18 recruits" is being pretty negative about this class, it might be you who's missing something there. Poormouthing the class as a whole isn't the same as bashing the individual recruits, but it sure doesn't give them a lot of credit either.

Some years (2003, 2007, 2010) you just have fewer scholarships to work with, and that's going to get you a little lower in the Scout/Rivals rankings. We as fans can do whatever we want with the numbers: some might be disappointed for various reasons and say it's a "down year", I choose to celebrate our signees and will wait until after bowl games to worry about the rankings.

I can see where your misunderstanding is coming from, it's alright. That assessment isn't based on the 18 players we have (for the most part), but on the inability to land the guys we heavily recruited that went elsewhere. On the notion of rankings...that's why I went out of my way to say that BEYOND rankings by services, it concerned me based on how bad the staff obviously wanted the guys we missed on. Aside from maybe Moses, we had a ton of time and development wrapped up in a ton of guys that went elsewhere. So based on the "trust the coaches" logic, which I do adhere to most of the time, you trust the coaches made all those offers and invested all that time into those recruits because we really wanted them here. Finally, when all those recruits didn't land here, they were likely disappointed as we were. You can only miss on so many crucial targets until it starts hurting your class. As for the guys we did get, again, there are many players in this class that I'm pumped about.

jwinslow;1655000; said:
03 was a disaster because no one stuck around.

Over 50% of the class was banished via injury or expulsion.

- Only 7 guys ranked above ***
- 4 were expelled
- 2 left after 3 years (one w/ 2 yrs left)
- 1 left after 4 years

If Irizarry sticks around, he continues the tradition of Hartsock. Not prolific, but steady contributions at TE.

If Maupin/Cotton don't wash out, OSU isn't forced to play underclassmen at DT and get pushed around in 07.

Agreed wholeheartedly but that class was similar in retrospect before it happened. There were warning signs of possibly high attrition and in a small class...ditto in '10. I truly hope that doesn't happen but I just can't remember taking so many guys with grade issues, off the field issues and serious injuries. I'm not throwing names out, as I'm sure we all know which players I'm talking about but you just have to hope they all have their house in order not only when they get here, but for the next 4-5 years. To end that on a positive notion, many of the guys in this class appear to have made strides this year.
 
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buckeyesin07;1655006; said:
I think it's possible both to celebrate our signees and to say that we missed on a lot of recruits we targeted this year and so maybe the staff needs to rethink some of its approaches to recruiting.

I agree. It might a few months to step back and let the pain of rejection fade. Lets take another look at this class later. Correct me if I am wrong, but we have 14 players redshirted from last years recruiting class that will join these recruits (or the ones that don't redshirt) as freshmen.
 
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buckeyesin07;1655006; said:
I think it's possible both to celebrate our signees and to say that we missed on a lot of recruits we targeted this year and so maybe the staff needs to rethink some of its approaches to recruiting. I'm not sure why you think those two concepts are mutually exclusive.

The only approach to recruiting that is going to keep OSU from missing on some of the recruits they target ... is to aim low when targeting recruits.

Time and change will surely show, that no matter how successful the program is, in summer's heat or winter's cold, there will always be fans who think the coaches can and should be doing things better. These guys have all been around a long time, they've had many a near-miss on signing day, and I for one believe wholeheartedly that they will continue doing what works and try not to repeat their mistakes exactly as in the past.
 
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GRENADE!!!!

SportingNews.com

Five Recruiting Classes That Will DOOM Their Teams FOREVER
Thursday, February 04, 2010
Posted By Brian Cook 4:45 PM


...
5. Ohio State. This is more DOOM in a national sense than a regional one: Ohio State still brought in the second-best class in the Big Ten after Penn State. (Some services rank Michigan higher, but Michigan brought in 27 kids to Ohio State's 18.) After two years of recruiting at a USC or Florida level, Ohio State took a steep drop this offseason despite their Rose Bowl breakthrough, losing out on a trio of highly-touted offensive line commits on Signing Day and striking out on the top four kids in the state of Ohio. Given OSU's last two classes, they're not exactly headed for the Alamo Bowl, but a future national championship game might have disappointingly familiar results because of events from this January.

cont...
 
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