2010 tOSU Recruiting Discussion

[Meyer]

Ohio State's talent issues with respect to elite teams, as evidenced by the blow-out losses to Florida in 2006, LSU in 2007, and USC in 2008, were due primarily to the abysmal recruiting classes of 2003 and 2004, which combined to produce just six star players (Gonzalez, Whitner, Youboty, Ginn, Gholston, and Pittman) and eight serviceable players (Barton, Boeckman, David Patterson, Abdallah, Freeman, Nicol, Person, and Rehring). The star power is decent, but all six of the star players left early for the NFL - maybe Florida 2006 isn't such a blow-out with Whitner and Youboty in the Buckeyes' defensive backfield, and guys like Ginn, Gonzalez, and Pittman would certainly have helped against LSU in 2007.

On the other hand, the depth that those two classes produced was downright appalling - guys like Patterson, Nicol, Person, and Rehring had no business being starters at Ohio State, much less multi-year starters. Boeckman was in the program for six years and could only manage a few solid performances. Freeman was one of the biggest disappointments during the Tressel era, a "top-10" LB who never lived up to his billing. Barton was project, a converted tight end, who played way above his natural abilities. Abdallah made some big plays as a fifth-year senior to avoid being a complete bust. Most of the other 25 signees from those two classes did little or nothing on the field, and 17 of them left the program early for various reasons, most of which had nothing to do with football.

I should note that the classes of 2003 and 2004 were the legacy of Bill Conley, Recruiting Expert. It is no coincidence that the upsurge in Ohio State recruiting occurred not with the arrival of Jim Tressel in January of 2001, but with the departure of Bill Conley in the spring of 2004 (which was just after the class of 2004 had been signed). With Tressel as the de facto recruiting coordinator, Ohio State has signed classes with more talent and far less character and off-the-field issues.

Any situation can be viewed positively or negatively (or somewhere in between). Regardless of how one should choose to view the Buckeyes' very well-documented and endlessly discussed failures in recent big games, one should at least know why the Buckeyes did not have the talent necessary to compete in those games ... and understanding the reason for that lack of talent, one should perhaps give credit to the coaching staff for being able to overcome that lack of talent to the extent that they did (a 23-3 record in 2006 and 2007, with two outright Big Ten titles and two national title game appearances).

great post. In the next few years we should fare a lot better against the top teams. Our talent level is going to be way up. Just think about the talent on Ohio State next year... better than it's ever been in the Tressel era by far. The recruiting here has been exceptional lately and this year will be no different. The '10 class might not be as good as our 08 and 09 classes, but '11 could prove to be better than them all!! No one is better at developing NFL players than Ohio State..

OSU is going to be winning the big games in the very near future. Be Patient cause it's coming.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Ohio State's talent issues with respect to elite teams, as evidenced by the blow-out losses to Florida in 2006, LSU in 2007, and USC in 2008, were due primarily to the abysmal recruiting classes of 2003 and 2004, which combined to produce just six star players (Gonzalez, Whitner, Youboty, Ginn, Gholston, and Pittman) and eight serviceable players (Barton, Boeckman, David Patterson, Abdallah, Freeman, Nicol, Person, and Rehring). The star power is decent, but all six of the star players left early for the NFL - maybe Florida 2006 isn't such a blow-out with Whitner and Youboty in the Buckeyes' defensive backfield, and guys like Ginn, Gonzalez, and Pittman would certainly have helped against LSU in 2007.

On the other hand, the depth that those two classes produced was downright appalling - guys like Patterson, Nicol, Person, and Rehring had no business being starters at Ohio State, much less multi-year starters. Boeckman was in the program for six years and could only manage a few solid performances. Freeman was one of the biggest disappointments during the Tressel era, a "top-10" LB who never lived up to his billing. Barton was project, a converted tight end, who played way above his natural abilities. Abdallah made some big plays as a fifth-year senior to avoid being a complete bust. Most of the other 25 signees from those two classes did little or nothing on the field, and 17 of them left the program early for various reasons, most of which had nothing to do with football.

I should note that the classes of 2003 and 2004 were the legacy of Bill Conley, Recruiting Expert. It is no coincidence that the upsurge in Ohio State recruiting occurred not with the arrival of Jim Tressel in January of 2001, but with the departure of Bill Conley in the spring of 2004 (which was just after the class of 2004 had been signed). With Tressel as the de facto recruiting coordinator, Ohio State has signed classes with more talent and far less character and off-the-field issues.

Any situation can be viewed positively or negatively (or somewhere in between). Regardless of how one should choose to view the Buckeyes' very well-documented and endlessly discussed failures in recent big games, one should at least know why the Buckeyes did not have the talent necessary to compete in those games ... and understanding the reason for that lack of talent, one should perhaps give credit to the coaching staff for being able to overcome that lack of talent to the extent that they did (a 23-3 record in 2006 and 2007, with two outright Big Ten titles and two national title game appearances).

Good stuff. I would like nothing more than to be able to discuss the why's of issues than fight with people over the existence of issues.

I defer to your knowledge of recruiting but to be fair I have to clarify, Conley did recruit all the players on the '02 team and had at least a hand in the 2002 recruiting class did he not? '03 and '04 were clearly monumental misses but, at least from my outsiders view, the recruiting was going pretty well before that. What you are describing seems like an overnight hero to zero in talent/character evaluation.

I'm honestly just curious as to what the deal is there because like you say, there has been a noticeable uptick in the caliber of talent (on and off the field) since 2005. Was BC just at the end of his time or something?

 

[jwinslow]

'03 and '04 were clearly monumental misses but, at least from my outsiders view, the recruiting was going pretty well before that. What you are describing seems like an overnight hero to zero in talent/character evaluation.

01 wasn't the greatest either.

 

[RB07OSU]

A lot of people are bringing up '03 as a barrier for winning big games but that is just exactly why one particular class can hurt you. If that class didn't have so much attrition and talent deficiencies, it is quite possible JT has another NC title in his name. One class makes a big difference when that class should be seniors and you are trying to make a title run. I'm not just talking about closing and missing on "stars"...I'm taking about that in conjunction with question marks across the board on current commits (grades, off the field issues, frequent and serious injuries, possible decommits). If it appeared nearly all the commits and prospects leaning our way had house in order, I wouldn't be nearly as concerned. Obviously, missing Shaw, Hicks and Joyner hurts in terms of elite talent level, but the position isn't one of great need. We always make do at DB. However, targeting guys like Chaz Green, Hurst and Linder just seemed fruitless. Your left with Henderson and James, when we likely needed 3 in this class...doubtful we land both, not far fetched to say we miss on both. I'm pretty much just saying that if the trend follows (the momentum is just not going our way), it is hard not to question the staff's approach to this year. Here is a thought...this year's approach just seemed vastly different than the general approaches in '08 and '09. I'm just wondering why? I think JT is a fantastic coach but all coaches can make mistakes. This could be one of them...maybe.

 

[stkoran]

I'm pretty much just saying that if the trend follows (the momentum is just not going our way), it is hard not to question the staff's approach to this year. Here is a thought...this year's approach just seemed vastly different than the general approaches in '08 and '09. I'm just wondering why?

I think the difference in recruiting philosophy we are seeing this year is a direct result of in region talent. I define our "region" as Ohio and its adjoining states (Indiana, Kentucky, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Michigan).

In 2008 we signed 20 players, 10 who committed before August. Of those 10, 7 were from in region and 3 were not. The regional recruits were Buchanan, Adams, Posey, Stoneburner, Williams, and Dilillo from Ohio, and Sweat from PA. The non-regional recruits were Goebel (Illinois, barely outside the region), and Brewster and Shuggarts, both heavy OSU leans going into the recruiting season. Of those regional recruits, Posey and Adams were 5 stars, Buchanan was a top kicker, and Stoneburner, Williams, and Sweat were all highly touted. Dilillo was the only one who would qualify as solid, but not spectacular.

Of the remaining 10, only 4 were from the region, with most being late offers (Rowell, Martin, Domincone). Pryor was the other regional recruit. The other 6 out of region were Mobely (MN), Wells (GA), Thomas (MD), and Howard, Johnson and Sabino from Florida.

So what we see in this class was locking up the elite in region talent we wanted, as well as heavy OSU leans early, picking up the elite out of region talent who weren't heavy OSU leans later, and also grabbing some late in region offers late in the process. And obviously when you are in on the #1 recruit in the county, you wait it out till the end.

Last year, the region was bursting with talent, and we capitalized. 22 of our 25 commits verballed before August. Of those 22, 19 were from in region and one was a legacy recruit (Carter). From Ohio we signed Klein, Simon, Mewhort, Homon, Barnett, Fields, Wood, Fellows, Linsley, Boren, Bellamy, Newsome and Longo. We pulled Brown, Bell and Hall from PA, Whiting from KY, and Fragel and Jackson from Michigan. Carter (FL) was a legacy. And like the previous year with Goebel, the staff was also able to pick up commits from non-regional guys Hyde (FL) and Clarke (MD) early. We went on to grab Berry (FL) in late August, and Guiton (TX, late offer) and Hall (OH, Glenville, typically wait to commit) in February.

This year, regional talent is down. Looking at the surrounding states first, Kentucky and West Virginia brought nothing to the table. Indiana offered little as well. We offered the two big talents in Hurst and Smith - Hurst signed with UNC early, telling me we never had a chance, and we grabbed a stud back in Smith. Michigan offered Gholsten, Bolden, and Gardner as big talents. The later two were QBs who we didn't offer, and we missed on Gholsten to an in-state school. PA was not teeming with talent this year either. It's top recruits are Floyd, Brown, Jones and Christian. Jones, a QB in the Gardner/Bolden mode didn't get an offer. We blew of Christian, telling me we liked other guys better. We signed Brown and lead for Floyd who we offered late (I'm assuming because we were waiting on academics). We also signed Hagen from PA, a sleeper recruit who the staff must see nice potential from.

In terms of in-region out of state OL recruiting, there wasn't much to go after. KY, WV and MI offered nothing in terms of OL talent, Hurst clearly wasn't coming here, and the top guys in PA (Dieffenbach and Ricketts) both committed to PSU in early June, and we didn't offer, telling me we either didn't like them all that much or knew that they weren't coming here.

And then there is Ohio. The studs we brought to the table are Hicks, Norwell, Turner, Anderson, James and Bryant. Other top guys include Heard, Ware, Welch, Smith and Hendrix. We nabbed Norwell and Turner early. Anderson and Bryant are both Glenville, so we know we will have to wait. As for the rest, we knew James would be a drawn out battle with UC and ND from the get go. Hicks isn't Ohio born and raised, and we knew Texas was his leader having grown up there. Heard was a late offer for DB, but he wanted to play RB. Welch/Smith both TE's + OSU not sexy for TE's + hopefully Koyack next year = I could care less we didn't sign them. Ware getting advice from the Aaron Brown gene pool means he wasn't coming here. And Hendrix is a catholic school kid going to ND, and we grabbed a different QB anyway, so no loss there.

From looking at the above, it is easy to see that the region was seriously lacking this year in elite OL and DB talent. From in region, there were a total of 5 kids at those positions felt were worthy of OSU offers: Norwell (commit), James (knew would be a battle), Hurst (no chance), and Bryant and Anderson (Glenville, always commit late in the process). That's it. So JT had no choice but to look out of state.

Unfortunately, we missed on two national elite DB's in Joyner (FL) and Shaw (CA). We are also still after Elam (FL and UF commit), but there is little chance of landing him. For the OL, we pursued Bennedict, Linder, and Green (all from FL) but lost out. We are still in pursuit of #1 overall recruit Henderson. We are now in the process of offering some in state guys coming off big seasons (Reed, already committed, and hopefully Brown).

I, for one, am glad we didn't settle and just offer Donnal and Schoffner. If we miss out on James and Henderson, oh well. I'd rather us pursue OSU level elite talent, rather than offer the solid/safe bet, killing our chances to sign said elite talent.

By most accounts, the region is looking up for recruiting next year. I fully expect JT to recruit accordingly, and I think most all of us will end up quite happy with the results. He's already off to a good start, having already signed Hayes and Miller (from in the region!).

 

[LordJeffBuck]

I defer to your knowledge of recruiting but to be fair I have to clarify, Conley did recruit all the players on the '02 team and had at least a hand in the 2002 recruiting class did he not? '03 and '04 were clearly monumental misses but, at least from my outsiders view, the recruiting was going pretty well before that. What you are describing seems like an overnight hero to zero in talent/character evaluation.

I'm honestly just curious as to what the deal is there because like you say, there has been a noticeable uptick in the caliber of talent (on and off the field) since 2005. Was BC just at the end of his time or something?

I think that that was a big part of it. Conley and Tressel had different recruiting philosophies, and Conley took a lot of kids who were high risk in terms of academics and character issues.

The class of 2002 was great, but honestly, with all the home grown talent that year (Clarett, Hawk, Carpenter, Zwick, Smith, D'Andrea, Datish, Mangold, Downing, Kudla, Pitcock, Richardson, Sims, Penton, Underwood) it was pretty easy to hit a home run. Of course, Conley still deserves some credit for doing what he was supposed to do.

 

[stowfan]

Just my humble opinion, the 2002 class was so good, and so balanced, a good player at every position, it made recruiting tough the next year.

 

[MONTbigBuck]

I think the difference in recruiting philosophy we are seeing this year is a direct result of in region talent. I define our "region" as Ohio and its adjoining states (Indiana, Kentucky, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Michigan).

In 2008 we signed 20 players, 10 who committed before August. Of those 10, 7 were from in region and 3 were not. The regional recruits were Buchanan, Adams, Posey, Stoneburner, Williams, and Dilillo from Ohio, and Sweat from PA. The non-regional recruits were Goebel (Illinois, barely outside the region), and Brewster and Shuggarts, both heavy OSU leans going into the recruiting season. Of those regional recruits, Posey and Adams were 5 stars, Buchanan was a top kicker, and Stoneburner, Williams, and Sweat were all highly touted. Dilillo was the only one who would qualify as solid, but not spectacular.

Of the remaining 10, only 4 were from the region, with most being late offers (Rowell, Martin, Domincone). Pryor was the other regional recruit. The other 6 out of region were Mobely (MN), Wells (GA), Thomas (MD), and Howard, Johnson and Sabino from Florida.

So what we see in this class was locking up the elite in region talent we wanted, as well as heavy OSU leans early, picking up the elite out of region talent who weren't heavy OSU leans later, and also grabbing some late in region offers late in the process. And obviously when you are in on the #1 recruit in the county, you wait it out till the end.

Last year, the region was bursting with talent, and we capitalized. 22 of our 25 commits verballed before August. Of those 22, 19 were from in region and one was a legacy recruit (Carter). From Ohio we signed Klein, Simon, Mewhort, Homon, Barnett, Fields, Wood, Fellows, Linsley, Boren, Bellamy, Newsome and Longo. We pulled Brown, Bell and Hall from PA, Whiting from KY, and Fragel and Jackson from Michigan. Carter (FL) was a legacy. And like the previous year with Goebel, the staff was also able to pick up commits from non-regional guys Hyde (FL) and Clarke (MD) early. We went on to grab Berry (FL) in late August, and Guiton (TX, late offer) and Hall (OH, Glenville, typically wait to commit) in February.

This year, regional talent is down. Looking at the surrounding states first, Kentucky and West Virginia brought nothing to the table. Indiana offered little as well. We offered the two big talents in Hurst and Smith - Hurst signed with UNC early, telling me we never had a chance, and we grabbed a stud back in Smith. Michigan offered Gholsten, Bolden, and Gardner as big talents. The later two were QBs who we didn't offer, and we missed on Gholsten to an in-state school. PA was not teeming with talent this year either. It's top recruits are Floyd, Brown, Jones and Christian. Jones, a QB in the Gardner/Bolden mode didn't get an offer. We blew of Christian, telling me we liked other guys better. We signed Brown and lead for Floyd who we offered late (I'm assuming because we were waiting on academics). We also signed Hagen from PA, a sleeper recruit who the staff must see nice potential from.

In terms of in-region out of state OL recruiting, there wasn't much to go after. KY, WV and MI offered nothing in terms of OL talent, Hurst clearly wasn't coming here, and the top guys in PA (Dieffenbach and Ricketts) both committed to PSU in early June, and we didn't offer, telling me we either didn't like them all that much or knew that they weren't coming here.

And then there is Ohio. The studs we brought to the table are Hicks, Norwell, Turner, Anderson, James and Bryant. Other top guys include Heard, Ware, Welch, Smith and Hendrix. We nabbed Norwell and Turner early. Anderson and Bryant are both Glenville, so we know we will have to wait. As for the rest, we knew James would be a drawn out battle with UC and ND from the get go. Hicks isn't Ohio born and raised, and we knew Texas was his leader having grown up there. Heard was a late offer for DB, but he wanted to play RB. Welch/Smith both TE's + OSU not sexy for TE's + hopefully Koyack next year = I could care less we didn't sign them. Ware getting advice from the Aaron Brown gene pool means he wasn't coming here. And Hendrix is a catholic school kid going to ND, and we grabbed a different QB anyway, so no loss there.

From looking at the above, it is easy to see that the region was seriously lacking this year in elite OL and DB talent. From in region, there were a total of 5 kids at those positions felt were worthy of OSU offers: Norwell (commit), James (knew would be a battle), Hurst (no chance), and Bryant and Anderson (Glenville, always commit late in the process). That's it. So JT had no choice but to look out of state.

Unfortunately, we missed on two national elite DB's in Joyner (FL) and Shaw (CA). We are also still after Elam (FL and UF commit), but there is little chance of landing him. For the OL, we pursued Bennedict, Linder, and Green (all from FL) but lost out. We are still in pursuit of #1 overall recruit Henderson. We are now in the process of offering some in state guys coming off big seasons (Reed, already committed, and hopefully Brown).

I, for one, am glad we didn't settle and just offer Donnal and Schoffner. If we miss out on James and Henderson, oh well. I'd rather us pursue OSU level elite talent, rather than offer the solid/safe bet, killing our chances to sign said elite talent.

By most accounts, the region is looking up for recruiting next year. I fully expect JT to recruit accordingly, and I think most all of us will end up quite happy with the results. He's already off to a good start, having already signed Hayes and Miller (from in the region!).

Solid analysis STK. Nothing in your breakdown that I can disagree with. Last summer when everyone was wondering about the lack of early offers going out I postulated somewhere that maybe the staff just didn't like much of what was out there in the class of '10. With where things stand today, nothing has changed my mind to this thinking. It is possible that we offered every OSU caliber O-lineman that we could get a toe-hold with. Most proved to be longshots. As you demonstrated, it makes it tough when only two of those candidates are Ohio guys, and one of those(James) is a dogfight. Went 4 for 4 last year in Ohio. There has been alot of hand-wringing the last few days over who we didn't go after. I will trust the staff that they tried for everyone that could potentially help us. We will know in 3-4 years. Michigan States entire class is Ohio guys, not to mention Donnal and Pace elsewhere. If in a few years 2-3 of these guys are kicking our butts and all big-ten we will know that mistakes were made.
Most of us here aren't insiders, and certainly aren't privy to the whole comprehensive view of recruiting. With regard to the OL, anyone they bring in this year doesn't have much seperation from last years class. Being selective this year with offers would seem to be a bullish statement about last years 4 recruits. I see no sense grabbing a couple big bodies if the staffs evaluation is that they can't push the '09 class for jobs. Conversely, if from observations in practice there is real doubt that we are ever going to get a contribution from a majority of last years class, then I think we might see abit more reaching. Anyway, I am hopeful we get one of either Henderson or James so all this fretting becomes a non-issue.
Most everyone her on BP is greedy when it comes to recruiting, and I am no different. I want to see the talent and performance of both the offensive and defensive lines continue forward at a dominating high level. One thing is certain, if we miss on Floyd and the OL, it will put alot of emphasis on next years class to be a killer in the trenches, or we could take a step back down the road.

 

[cbrian815]

Finish with a solid DT, OT and the Glenville Duo and I will be happy. Go Bucks

 

[BUKEsqBuck]

5 spots left (flash will be missed)... any predictions

I say Henderson, Floyd, Brown and the Glenville Duo (roby if we miss on one of the pipeline duo).

my humble 2 cents (dirty pennies apparently)

:osu:

 

[y0yoyoin]

i think floyd ends up at UNC...i dont know why but i think the whole people being shocked thing has me leaning towards them being the school he chooses....the whole him wanting to be the next LT (DT first 2 years of college)/Peppers thing has me thinking he might end up at UNC...i hope im wrong

 

[BGriffBuckeye]

Final 5? Hoping for Floyd, but not expecting him... nor do I expect Anderson as well.

Seantrel Henderson - Consensus #1 player in the country. This would be 2 or the last 3 years we've pulled that off. Would be HUGE to close with him.
Matt James - Very good offensive lineman, though more of a guard than a tackle... which is fine, we'll have Norwell and Henderson, God willing, as tackles in this class.
Christian Bryant - Has been said to be the top cover corner at the Army Game practices this week. Very underrated as a player. Very. He's not the biggest guys out there, but he's physical. Corner or Free Safety in college.
Bradley Roby - Visits this weekend, I believe. He has an offer and, with Cam coming back, and both their mothers being close friends, I can see him committing this weekend. Solid 2 way player, but he takes Anderson's other DB spot and I am fine with that. More of the typical size/mold we see out of Tressel corners, moreso than Anderson is.
Dominique Brown - Big time Athlete. I have no idea where he will play, but he can play all over the field. I don't hink he can be a QB in our system, but at 6'3" 225 he could be a WR, Flex TE (like Stoneburner), LB or Strong Safety.

This would be a solid class, probably in the 15 range on the recruiting sites, filled with legit talent on the lines, and plenty of sleeper guys who could break out. I think Jamel Turner is underrated, as are John Hankins, Taylor Graham, David Durham, and Tyrone Williams. If we get Sharrif Floyd and/or Latwan Anderson, along with the guys I just listed too, this is top 10 easily.

 

[Redhawk]

So with Thomas leaving and with Washington, Hines and Gant (per his thread) apparently sticking around next year, that should leave the number of open spots at four. The current remaining targets include:

Matt James
Seantrell Henderson
Jordan Hicks
Christian Bryant
Bradley Roby
Dominique Brown (maybe)

Correct?

 

[sepia5]

Yup, that looks right. And Tressell has said this class will contain 20, so unless something has changed, I only expect four of those, since we already have 16 in the fold. I could see it being James, Henderson, Bryant, and Roby. I think Brown gets offered if his grades are in order and we miss on Roby. I still think it was a big mistake not to target more DTs in this class. Right now I'm wondering if the staff isn't feeling awfully burned by Floyd's decision.

 

[cbrian815]

Here`s to Larimore, Simon and Goebel staying healthy next year. We needed more depth there this year with our recruiting class.....a stud like Floyd would have been spectacular (seems like our staff must have felt good about him joining our class). If we can stay healthy and get a couple good ones in `11 we should be ok. Go Bucks