It's as simple as that.......except for these things I'm going to list that make it 100x easier for the SEC. Other than that though....it's cuz they're better recruiters.
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- Thread starter osugrad21
- Start date
The SEC schools will always sign more players because of the whole academic thing. All I will ever be interested in is the core quantity of players. I like to see a high number of studs, with 2-4 under the radar types with high ceilings. '08 was just like that and was a banner year, though I don't expect a class like that every year.
The real deal is that if the staff is convinced of a prospects value, they will either keep in frequent contact or offer regardless of who else they are targeting. Many of the late offers the staff has known about, but they are just what is left after we miss. Sure it works out sometimes, but nobody was sitting around a month ago saying "I hope we get spurned by Shaw, Joyner, Hicks, James, Henderson and Floyd so we can throw out late minute offers to prospects who are just as good." Fact of the matter is that if the staff thought they were just as good, they would have offered at least a couple of them before awaiting decisions on the others. Nobody disputes that the offers could be "diamonds in the rough", but the truth is that fans and the staff preferred the others I mentioned, while not all are being "panicked" or completely dissatisfied. Some prospects are just late bloomers that we just got wind of, but most we already knew about but hadn't offered. This year it was particularly odd that with all the OOS studs we were waiting on (that we agree we almost never get), there didn't appear to be an exit strategy. Someone said Tressel hunts with a sniper, not a shotgun...that is fine and dandy until you miss on one too many bucks, all the does have been bagged, and don't bring enough meat home for the family.
The real deal is that if the staff is convinced of a prospects value, they will either keep in frequent contact or offer regardless of who else they are targeting. Many of the late offers the staff has known about, but they are just what is left after we miss. Sure it works out sometimes, but nobody was sitting around a month ago saying "I hope we get spurned by Shaw, Joyner, Hicks, James, Henderson and Floyd so we can throw out late minute offers to prospects who are just as good." Fact of the matter is that if the staff thought they were just as good, they would have offered at least a couple of them before awaiting decisions on the others. Nobody disputes that the offers could be "diamonds in the rough", but the truth is that fans and the staff preferred the others I mentioned, while not all are being "panicked" or completely dissatisfied. Some prospects are just late bloomers that we just got wind of, but most we already knew about but hadn't offered. This year it was particularly odd that with all the OOS studs we were waiting on (that we agree we almost never get), there didn't appear to be an exit strategy. Someone said Tressel hunts with a sniper, not a shotgun...that is fine and dandy until you miss on one too many bucks, all the does have been bagged, and don't bring enough meat home for the family.
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buckeyeintn
Legend
RB07OSU;1624496; said:
And when he begins to do that we should be concerned. Until then we need to assume he knows what he's doing, even if we don't.
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buckeyeintn;1624497; said:
The 3 year 0-fer vs quality OOC teams doesn't make people at least consider the possibility this is already happening to some degree? What is the definition of "when he begins to do that"? It's not like the school is going to make an announcement or anything right? So that leaves fans to draw inferences and ask questions.
There has to be some reason we can't beat the UF/USC/Texas caliber teams lately. An overall lower level of talent, or lower level of talent at specific positions could very well be part of the problem, no?
I don't think this particular ending to this particular class is anything to be real worked up about yet because we don't even know how its going to finalize but I guess I just don't understand this blind faith/ask no questions mentality.
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don't bring enough meat home to the family is the key part of that quotation, jax. That's what's not happening.
I know you love negativity, but don't give me that garbage that we can't beat Texas. OSU beat them once and barely lost to two top-2 squads.
OSU has competed just fine with the top echelon squads. They had a rough stretch in 07 & september 08, which happened to coincide with a terrible 03 recruiting class (which became far worse by attrition) & a very mediocre 04 class (once Ginn was gone). Not to mention both of those classes were quite barren in terms of trench play, while going up against teams like LSU & USC with incredible talent there.
The young DL that filled in got pushed around in those games (& Illinois) are now a force upfront. OSU should have had Cotton, Maupin and others anchoring the line, albeit with less stars than the classes after them. Instead they were thrust into action at a spot where men typically dominate boys.
07 & mendensa are unhappy that OSU has to take guys lower on their list after recruiting losses, when the reality is that happens virtually everywhere.
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Jaxbuck;1624520; said:
The Florida debacle happened not because of a differential of talent but rather because OSU waltzed into the game thinking the game was already over (and Troy Smith full of In 'n Out burgers) and ended up getting their nuts kicked because of it...that and Roy Hall breaking Ginn's foot in the endzone.
We played LSU pretty evenly except for the second-quarter hiccup...a couple of inches-close plays killed us (roughing the punter where the ball was barely tipped but the refs missed it, and Robo getting the ball stripped away in the endzone).
Anyone whining about the Texas game should be bitch-slapped...nobody outside of Ohio gave us a snowball's chance, but we were but 30 seconds from beating the team many felt should have been in the national title game.
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0-5
3 of the 5 were blow outs. People can rationalize all they want but the results on the field would seem to say different.
Somethings wrong and I think you touched on part of it with the effect of a couple of sub par recruiting classes. Hopefully the uptick in the recruiting lately soon reverses the trend vs the elite teams but some acting as if the coaching staff is beyond reproach baffles me.
Idolize-Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
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btw, I meant to include 'overall' in the 'competed just fine' line. I still think the Jan 07 - Sep 08 era gets blown out of proportion, particularly since it was largely the same defense, but we're really going down a rabbit trail. This debate is about "SETTLING"
Tressel often gets questioned for his sniper approach, which leads to late offers to supposed "Plan B" guys. I decided to glance back at his late targets to see whether these guys panned out or proved to be lesser talents.
05 - JL, Wash., Robiskie
| Lenix - very talented washout
06 - Grant, Miller, Chekwa
| Gant backup, Olson injury casualty
07 - Heyward, Hines
| Pentello
08 - Howard, Johnson, Martin
| Domicone backup, Rowell washout
09 - hardly applicable, class done in June. Guiton only late pickup, too soon to judge.
11 excellent pickups 3 backups 3 attrition.
Even if you combine the last two groups, you still have a 2:1 ratio for excellent pickups.
Every team has to 'settle' for guys lower on their list. While this is painful for us recruitniks that get emotionally invested, don't confuse that disappointment with misrepresenting the talent level of those later targets.
There are only two kinds of prospects, kids that can play at OSU, and those that can't. OSU very rarely brings in the latter, even with late targets.
This emotional displeasure about "settling" simply isn't backed up by reality. If we were landing Morgan Trents I could understand it, but they are simply based on emotion, given the Chekwas & Washingtons we usually land.
Was my first sentence unclear? Or are you just intentionally dodging that to get in another round of negativity?
Tressel often gets questioned for his sniper approach, which leads to late offers to supposed "Plan B" guys. I decided to glance back at his late targets to see whether these guys panned out or proved to be lesser talents.
05 - JL, Wash., Robiskie
06 - Grant, Miller, Chekwa
07 - Heyward, Hines
08 - Howard, Johnson, Martin
09 - hardly applicable, class done in June. Guiton only late pickup, too soon to judge.
11 excellent pickups 3 backups 3 attrition.
Even if you combine the last two groups, you still have a 2:1 ratio for excellent pickups.
Every team has to 'settle' for guys lower on their list. While this is painful for us recruitniks that get emotionally invested, don't confuse that disappointment with misrepresenting the talent level of those later targets.
There are only two kinds of prospects, kids that can play at OSU, and those that can't. OSU very rarely brings in the latter, even with late targets.
This emotional displeasure about "settling" simply isn't backed up by reality. If we were landing Morgan Trents I could understand it, but they are simply based on emotion, given the Chekwas & Washingtons we usually land.
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stkoran
All-American
Jaxbuck;1624572; said:
2007 BCS Title Game: tOSU v. UF 41-14
I place much of the blame for this game, which was no doubt a blowout, squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff. They did not have the team ready to compete and coached the game itself poorly as well. Recruiting was certainly an issue as well, as our defensive talent was certainly lacking, but the "coaching" aspect of coaches was what let us down, not the recruiting aspect. (Ginn's injury didn't help)
2008 BCS Title Game: tOSU v. LSU 38-24
I in no way classify this game as a blow out. First, losing by 14 counts as a blow out in baseball or soccer, in football it is just a good win. Second, there were multiple times during the second half where we were threatening to make it a 7 point game. As an OSU fan, I was hopeful. If I were an LSU fan, I would have been nervous. That is not a blowout.
I know this has been discussed before, but this team overachieved while others faltered, and lost the game to what I believe was the best team in the country (in spite of Les Miles' best efforts). Was recruiting to blame? Sure, obviously most people felt we weren't good enough to get this far when the season started, squarely because of the perceived level of talent. Was the coaching staff perfect? Of course not. But based on expectations, I don't see how this season could be painted as anything other than a success.
2008 tOSU v. USC 35-3 USC
Blowout. Awful. No Beanie, but awful. Lack of O-line talent glaring. Worse than UF in my mind. I believe to this day that had JT coached like JT in that game it is certainly a lot closer, and we maybe even pull it off. This game. Just utter domination. Blowout.
2009 Fiesta Bowl tOSU v. Texas 24-21 Texas
No blowout here. Rather, a classic. I don't see how this game can be used as evidence that JT is doing something wrong. We lost in the final seconds to the #2 team in the country, a team many (including me) felt should have been playing for the national title. To me, that sounds like two evenly matched teams played a great game, one team had to lose, and unfortunately, it was us. This game is never actually discussed when people talk about how tOSU can't win big games, but rather people would just tack it onto the streak to make it look worse.
2009 tOSU v. USC 18-15 USC
Again, classic, not a blowout. Lost in the final minutes in a game where we were the better team. Recruiting can't be blamed as an issue in this one. Shaky QB play and some questionable coaching decisions can be, but the Bucks certainly weren't out-talented by USC.
Is Jim Tressel infallible? Not at all. Do I wish we had signed Josh Shaw or Lamarcus Joyner? Of course! But the facts are, since October 17, 2004, Jim Tressel has lost a total of 10 games, 3 by over 10 points. He has signed the #3 and #4 ranked recruiting classes the past two years. This year won't be that high, but it most certainly isn't 2003 redux either, and can potentially end quite strong. Hopefully we beat a good Oregon team in the Rose Bowl. Maybe we won't. But I'll still be happy that Jim Tressel is our coach.
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BuckNut65
The Hopfather
One of the major problems with our teams over the last several years can be summed up by 2 letters...OL. When you mention sub-par recruiting or recruiting issues, if I have one problem it has been with the recruitment of offensive lineman. This is the first year in the Tressel area where we really have some depth, however we are opening ourselves up again by possibly ending up with only one OL this year in Norwell if Henderson and/or James go elsewhere.
We can recruit every other type of player consistently, however this doesn't seem to be the case with the o-line side with the possible exception of Brewster, Adams, Shugarts class and they have been inconsistent as well.
Many a dart has been thrown at the coaching, etc., but until we can consistently recruit and develop quality offensive lineman we are going to see the same types of problems against quality opponents.
We can recruit every other type of player consistently, however this doesn't seem to be the case with the o-line side with the possible exception of Brewster, Adams, Shugarts class and they have been inconsistent as well.
Many a dart has been thrown at the coaching, etc., but until we can consistently recruit and develop quality offensive lineman we are going to see the same types of problems against quality opponents.
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OSU needs depth behind the 08 & 09 classes, but Mewhort, Hall, Longo, Linsley was a pretty nice class as well.
They already landed their one blue-chip lineman. Land 1 more in Henderson or find a good sleeper and they're in pretty good shape.
They already landed their one blue-chip lineman. Land 1 more in Henderson or find a good sleeper and they're in pretty good shape.
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Jaxbuck;1624572; said:
Florida: As I posted earlier, the team just didn't show up...talent gap had squat to do with it.
LSU: Again, as I said earlier, pretty much even for three quarters and several close plays provided huge swings for LSU. No where near the blowout many claim.
USC '08: Missed early opportunities started the downfall. The team flat out quit once down big...team descent became amongst the offense known later down the road. I was there for the game, and saw both teams in person...athletically across the board we stacked up against them very well.
Texas: If you watched the game, then you know what transpired. We played possibly the best team in the country dead-even the entire game. Absolutely nothing to be ashamed of...only the final score was a disappointment.
USC '09: Dominated USC's offense the entire game except for their late scoring drive. In my mind, the biblical ass-whipping our DL put on their OL started USC's tumble for the season...hell, USC had two weeks to recover and they still lost at Washington their next game. Our offense just couldn't get in gear for most of the game.
In my mind, we got our asses kicked only once since the 2006 NC game, and that was at USC in 2008. We were in the game until the very end against Texas and USC '09, and really should've won both.
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Ohio State's talent issues with respect to elite teams, as evidenced by the blow-out losses to Florida in 2006, LSU in 2007, and USC in 2008, were due primarily to the abysmal recruiting classes of 2003 and 2004, which combined to produce just six star players (Gonzalez, Whitner, Youboty, Ginn, Gholston, and Pittman) and eight serviceable players (Barton, Boeckman, David Patterson, Abdallah, Freeman, Nicol, Person, and Rehring). The star power is decent, but all six of the star players left early for the NFL - maybe Florida 2006 isn't such a blow-out with Whitner and Youboty in the Buckeyes' defensive backfield, and guys like Ginn, Gonzalez, and Pittman would certainly have helped against LSU in 2007.
On the other hand, the depth that those two classes produced was downright appalling - guys like Patterson, Nicol, Person, and Rehring had no business being starters at Ohio State, much less multi-year starters. Boeckman was in the program for six years and could only manage a few solid performances. Freeman was one of the biggest disappointments during the Tressel era, a "top-10" LB who never lived up to his billing. Barton was project, a converted tight end, who played way above his natural abilities. Abdallah made some big plays as a fifth-year senior to avoid being a complete bust. Most of the other 25 signees from those two classes did little or nothing on the field, and 17 of them left the program early for various reasons, most of which had nothing to do with football.
I should note that the classes of 2003 and 2004 were the legacy of Bill Conley, Recruiting Expert. It is no coincidence that the upsurge in Ohio State recruiting occurred not with the arrival of Jim Tressel in January of 2001, but with the departure of Bill Conley in the spring of 2004 (which was just after the class of 2004 had been signed). With Tressel as the de facto recruiting coordinator, Ohio State has signed classes with more talent and far less character and off-the-field issues.
Any situation can be viewed positively or negatively (or somewhere in between). Regardless of how one should choose to view the Buckeyes' very well-documented and endlessly discussed failures in recent big games, one should at least know why the Buckeyes did not have the talent necessary to compete in those games ... and understanding the reason for that lack of talent, one should perhaps give credit to the coaching staff for being able to overcome that lack of talent to the extent that they did (a 23-3 record in 2006 and 2007, with two outright Big Ten titles and two national title game appearances).
On the other hand, the depth that those two classes produced was downright appalling - guys like Patterson, Nicol, Person, and Rehring had no business being starters at Ohio State, much less multi-year starters. Boeckman was in the program for six years and could only manage a few solid performances. Freeman was one of the biggest disappointments during the Tressel era, a "top-10" LB who never lived up to his billing. Barton was project, a converted tight end, who played way above his natural abilities. Abdallah made some big plays as a fifth-year senior to avoid being a complete bust. Most of the other 25 signees from those two classes did little or nothing on the field, and 17 of them left the program early for various reasons, most of which had nothing to do with football.
I should note that the classes of 2003 and 2004 were the legacy of Bill Conley, Recruiting Expert. It is no coincidence that the upsurge in Ohio State recruiting occurred not with the arrival of Jim Tressel in January of 2001, but with the departure of Bill Conley in the spring of 2004 (which was just after the class of 2004 had been signed). With Tressel as the de facto recruiting coordinator, Ohio State has signed classes with more talent and far less character and off-the-field issues.
Any situation can be viewed positively or negatively (or somewhere in between). Regardless of how one should choose to view the Buckeyes' very well-documented and endlessly discussed failures in recent big games, one should at least know why the Buckeyes did not have the talent necessary to compete in those games ... and understanding the reason for that lack of talent, one should perhaps give credit to the coaching staff for being able to overcome that lack of talent to the extent that they did (a 23-3 record in 2006 and 2007, with two outright Big Ten titles and two national title game appearances).
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