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2009 TSUN News (football only discussion)

jwinslow;1573033; said:
I'm implying the only early impact LB in this class is probably Marvin Robinson, and he's probably better suited for the spinner position, at least during his first season on campus.

Fitzgerald came in with a lot of fanfare but is struggling to hold off walkon LBs, Ezeh has been a liability for most of the year, and Mouton's effort and play leaves a lot to be desired (despite his natural talent).

I'm not sure UM will be much better on defense without a breakthrough player opposite Roh at DE & a different corps of LBs, whether they improve or are replaced.

Ezeh has been slowly improving, had a great showing against Iowa.

Mouton just looks lost out there, even though he's probably our most talented linebacker from an athletic stand-point.

I think Marvin Robinson could potentially replace Mouton.

I think Brandin Hawthorne takes over the spinner spot next year.
 
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mbama1;1573069; said:
Ezeh has been slowly improving, had a great showing against Iowa.
that's why I said most, because that was more of the exception to the rule imo. Iowa was also a simpler challenge for him.
Mouton just looks lost out there, even though he's probably our most talented linebacker from an athletic stand-point.
letting cousins jog past him was unreal. You'd think at worst that you'd take the opportunity to hit the dinged up, slow footed qb who has been slicing up your d.
I think Marvin Robinson could potentially replace Mouton.
perhaps, but how big is he? He's certainly a beast physically, but that leads me into my next point
I think Brandin Hawthorne takes over the spinner spot next year.
I don't disagree, but man, um just got a lot smaller in this hypo.

Graham replaced by roh.
Roh replaced by ?? Herron? Kinnard? Mouton?
Mouton replaced by Robinson.
Brown replaced by Hawthorne.

Um has struggled this year because they were smaller upfront, particularly at quick (instead of a prototypical 260-275 lb de). They're getting smaller at four positions here... And could potentially have to replace warren with Floyd, witty or another undersized CB. I've always felt turner was a S.
 
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jwinslow;1573080; said:
that's why I said most, because that was more of the exception to the rule imo. Iowa was also a simpler challenge for him.
letting cousins jog past him was unreal. You'd think at worst that you'd take the opportunity to hit the dinged up, slow footed qb who has been slicing up your d.
perhaps, but how big is he? He's certainly a beast physically, but that leads me into my next point
I don't disagree, but man, um just got a lot smaller in this hypo.

Graham replaced by roh.
Roh replaced by ?? Herron? Kinnard? Mouton?
Mouton replaced by Robinson.
Brown replaced by Hawthorne.

Um has struggled this year because they were smaller upfront, particularly at quick (instead of a prototypical 260-275 lb de). They're getting smaller at four positions here... And could potentially have to replace warren with Floyd, witty or another undersized CB. I've always felt turner was a S.

Banks is most likely going to replace Graham from what I hear, Roh will continue to play the quick. The real question is who will replace Warren (If he leaves), Steve Brown, and will safety play improve?
 
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jwinslow;1573080; said:
that's why I said most, because that was more of the exception to the rule imo. Iowa was also a simpler challenge for him.

Obi has a big test this Saturday against Penn State, if he can play like he did against Iowa in this game then there may still be hope for him.

jwinslow;1573080; said:
letting cousins jog past him was unreal. You'd think at worst that you'd take the opportunity to hit the dinged up, slow footed qb who has been slicing up your d.

That was honestly the most head-scratching awful play that I have seen from Mouton yet, and he's had a lot of those types of head-scratching awful plays. I don't know what the deal is with him. He showed a lot of promise last season as a RS Sophomore.

He's actually regressed this season, which is kind of shocking to see.

jwinslow;1573080; said:
perhaps, but how big is he? He's certainly a beast physically

Reports are that Marvin is already north of 210+ pounds. Remember, Rivals was listing the kid in their database at 190 when he was still a sophomore in high school. The kid has grown a lot in the past 2 years.

Mouton plays at 228 right now. If Robinson enrolls early and can get into the 220s, I think he'll have a shot of replacing Mouton.

jwinslow;1573080; said:
I don't disagree, but man, um just got a lot smaller in this hypo.

Not necessarily. Stevie Brown is playing spinner at 211 pounds, and he's our most consistent, best linebacker right now, even at that size.

Hawthorne is still a true frosh that is red-shirting this season and right now he's listed at 198 pounds. By fall next year it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that he'll add around 10-15 pounds, maybe more, and be in the same weight range that Brown was.

jwinslow;1573080; said:
Graham replaced by roh.
Roh replaced by ?? Herron? Kinnard? Mouton?
Mouton replaced by Robinson.
Brown replaced by Hawthorne.

All of those guys will add some size by next season. Roh may very well stay at his Quick spot as well.

There could also be a break-out true/RS freshman in spring/fall camp next year to claim the spot. I know that Anthony LaLota is physically as impressive as they come, but the kid has only been playing football for about 2 or 3 years. I would not rule him out completely either.

jwinslow;1573080; said:
Um has struggled this year because they were smaller upfront, particularly at quick (instead of a prototypical 260-275 lb de). They're getting smaller at four positions here...

I don't think we've struggled because of size. Our guys have been in positions to make plays and tackles on defense, and they just haven't made them. Stevie Brown is our smallest linebacker, but he's also probably our most reliable linebacker when it comes to tackling. Ezeh is north of 240 pounds and Mouton is almost 230, yet both of these guys have whiffed on plenty of tackles that they should have made.

Hell, Jordan Kovacs is much smaller than Ezeh or Mouton and he's a much more reliable tackler than either of them.

Roh has struggled at the point of attack at times, but he is only a 240 pound true frosh. I do think that is to be expected. I think once he's had a year under his belt and is up to 255-260, that he'll be a holy terror for offenses. The kid is a legit talent in my opinion. Probably the defender with the brightest NFL future ahead of him on the entire squad outside of Graham and Warren.


jwinslow;1573080; said:
And could potentially have to replace warren with Floyd, witty or another undersized CB. I've always felt turner was a S.

Well hopefully we won't have to cross that bridge, but if do I do know for a fact that Turner is playing CB at Michigan. Michigan is also heavily recruiting CB's right now and I think they land some pretty good ones that can play as a freshman.

And while you might have always felt that Turner was a safety, the Michigan coaches who see the kid every day in practice definitely disagree with you.

Turner showed up to fall camp way too late and out of shape, which is why he hasn't made a contribution yet and has been red-shirted, but the Michigan coaches are very high on him, and for good reason I think.

I have watched just about everything that is out there on Turner, and to me he just looks far more comfortable and natural at CB than he does at safety. His performance against Rueben Randle and Pat Patterson in that high school all-star game was so impressive and it really made me a believer of him at CB.

I am hoping that Warren sticks around, because if he does I think he and Turner could be a great corner duo next year, and it would allow the coaching staff to move Woolfolk back to safety, which in turn gets Mike Williams off the field, which in turn is a great thing.
 
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Mouton plays at 228 right now.
Interesting, he looks a lot bigger in pads, must be wearing the Marlin Jackson pads.
I don't think we've struggled because of size.
UM has replaced a 300 lb DT with a 235-240 lb 3-4 OLB type, and a 225-245 lb OLB with a 210 lb safety.
Our guys have been in positions to make plays and tackles on defense, and they just haven't made them. Stevie Brown is our smallest linebacker, but he's also probably our most reliable linebacker when it comes to tackling. Ezeh is north of 240 pounds and Mouton is almost 230, yet both of these guys have whiffed on plenty of tackles that they should have made.
Indiana ran well to the right at the quick side of the line, and almost always got stuffed going at Graham, and often in the middle. Other teams have had similar results.
Roh has struggled at the point of attack at times, but he is only a 240 pound true frosh. I do think that is to be expected. I think once he's had a year under his belt and is up to 255-260, that he'll be a holy terror for offenses. The kid is a legit talent in my opinion. Probably the defender with the brightest NFL future ahead of him on the entire squad outside of Graham and Warren.
I think Roh would be a great quick/hybrid guy. Just need a true 3-4 DE type to step up at the other side. Banks has the size but I'm not sure the talent is there to watch.
I am hoping that Warren sticks around, because if he does I think he and Turner could be a great corner duo next year, and it would allow the coaching staff to move Woolfolk back to safety, which in turn gets Mike Williams off the field, which in turn is a great thing.
The 2nd & 3rd all-star games have diluted the value of the selections, but it's remarkable how many all-star safeties have not panned out at UM. Burgess, Mouton, Williams, Smith, Brown (at S). Now Williams was easily the most average of that set, but still.
 
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jwinslow;1573564; said:
The 2nd & 3rd all-star games have diluted the value of the selections, but it's remarkable how many all-star safeties have not panned out at UM. Burgess, Mouton, Williams, Smith, Brown (at S). Now Williams was easily the most average of that set, but still.
M*ch*g*n: where safeties go to die (or move to LB).

Seriously, who was the last decent safety there? Ernest Shazor? (:slappy:)
 
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NFBuck;1573568; said:
M*ch*g*n: where safeties go to die (or move to LB).

Seriously, who was the last decent safety there? Ernest Shazor?

Probably not even Shazor.

Probably Jamar Adams, who by his senior year was a very solid safety.

Before that probably Cato June.

Shazor was pretty much a glorified linebacker. He was god awful in pass coverage, but man he could hit and he had some high-light reel hits in his day.

The last truly great safety who could cover and hit that we've had was Marcus Ray. It's been a long, long time since we've had somebody that good.


buckeyesin07;1573569; said:
Kovacs' problem isn't tackling--he's actually a pretty good tacker from what I've seen. His problem is more that he's lacking speed and doesn't take great angles.

True frosh walk-on. I have been very impressed with Kovacs for what he is. Despite his obvious limitations and lack of natural ability, he's been surprisingly solid. I wish more guys on the defense had this kids attitude and determination. Guys like Mouton, Williams, Cissoko, and Ezeh.
 
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jwinslow;1573665; said:
He and Mays making the AA list still has me scratching my head...

Are you talking about Taylor Mays of USC? Who by the way, I think is completely overrated and terrible in pass coverage.

If you are, I think it's two things:

A) Both from a helmet school.

B) Both impressive looking physical specimens that deliver high-light reel worthy hits.

Most of the people in the press that vote on these things don't know anything.
 
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