2009 TSUN News (football only discussion)

[MililaniBuckeye]

Well my response to that is; have you seen the Big Ten? Not exactly the SEC. Not exactly the WAC. (OK, little bit of a joke there).

You mean the Big Ten in which you went 2-6 last year and are currently 1-2? Yes, I've seen it.

Iowa is supposedly one of the top 2 teams in the B10 and we just gave them all they could handle and then some in their own house in a night game and despite turning the ball over 5 times.

Yeah, and you barely avoided getting "Big-Housed" by Indiana...the same Indiana team we bitch-slapped the very next week.

I think we will be back in the thick of things in the B10 very soon.

If by "in the thick of things" you mean 8-4 or 9-3 overall with a 5-3 or 6-2 conference record, I can agree.

People can say whatever they want about his personality or his character, but bottom line the man can coach football.

Sorry, but if he can coach football so well he should've been able to figure out a way to finish better than 3-9 last year. No one forced him to implement a totally new system without taking into account, or totally ignoring, the type of players he had on hand...he did that all on his own.

 

[NFBuck]

*Hack* *Hack*

I'm sorry, I'm choking on excuses here...

 

[mbama1]

Four words for ya:

Ryan Mallet

Justin Boren

Your point? Those guys didn't want to play for Rich. Why even bring them up?

2000-2007 Michigan isn't anywhere near the Cooper era.

Well, we put out a lot of NFL talent in that time span. Off the top of my head, just naming guys that played from 2000-2007 teams that start in the NFL;

Steve Hutchinson, OL (Future NFL HOF'er)

Jeff Backus, OL (has been an NFL starter for the same team that drafted him for almost a decade)

Maurice Williams, OL (has been an NFL starter for the same team that drafted him for almost a decade)

Jonathan Goodwin, OL (starter for the Saints)

Larry Foote, LB (has been an NFL stater pretty much his entire career, for the Steelers and now Detroit Lions)

Chad Henne (only 2 games in, but I think he's gonna be a great one in the NFL. Has got all of the tools needed, and he already looks much better than he ever was at Michigan. No batted balls every 10 passes and where the hell was that touch, throwing on the run, and screen passes at Michigan? It's called good coaching. He's got it now, so look out.)

Braylon Edwards (probably not well liked around here, but has shown himself to be an absolute stud in he NFL when he wants to be)

Steve Breaston (probably the best slot WR in the NFL. 1,000 yards last year, on pace for another big year this season. Where the hell was that route running and those hands at Michigan? Much better WR in the NFL than he ever was at Michigan. Why? Coaching.)

Jason Avant (not really a starter, but a good role receiver for the Eagles)

Jake Long (#1 overall pick, Pro Bowler his first year, stud)

David Baas (starter in the NFL for the 49ers)

LaMarr Woodley (starter for the Steelers, absolute stud)

David Harris (starter for the Jets, absolute stud)

Gabe Watson (starter, turning into a stud for Arizona)

Leon Hall (starter for the Bengals, absolute stud)

Marlin Jackson (starter for the Colts, stud when healthy)


Off the top of my head that's a lot of quality starting NFL talent that didn't really do a whole lot under Carr.

 

[Ginn4Heisman20]

Off the top of my head that's a lot of quality starting NFL talent that didn't really do a whole lot under Carr.

You sure you don't want to back down a bit from that statement? I see more than a couple of All Americans and All Big Ten players on it... the first two alone won rings if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Mike80]

Your point? Those guys didn't want to play for Rich. Why even bring them up?

Which is why Dick Rod will never make it to the pantheon of college football head coaches.

A true coach and leader would have worked with the talent on-hand, much like Tressel did with Bellisari and Krenzel and like Pete Carroll did with Carson Palmer. YES THERE ARE MORE EXAMPLES.

Dick Rod instead decided to completely change the entire system there thereby guaranteeing him a very shitty year last year and a mediocre one this year.

At year 2, Tressell, Meyer, Carroll and Stoops were winning national titles with the previous coaches players for the most part.

Well, we put out a lot of NFL talent in that time span. Off the top of my head, just naming guys that played from 2000-2007 teams that start in the NFL;

Off the top of my head that's a lot of quality starting NFL talent that didn't really do a whole lot under Carr.

I see revisionist history is alive and well up in scUM land....

That list is FULL of All-Americans, national champions, Michigan all-time record holders and that....

 

[NFBuck]

A true coach and leader would have worked with the talent on-hand, much like Tressel did with Bellisari and Krenzel and like Pete Carroll did with Carson Palmer. YES THERE ARE MORE EXAMPLES.

Urban Meyer won an MNC with Chris Leak...far from his "type" of QB. Nick Saban had quite a bit of success with John Parker Wilson, the very definition of a marginal QB...

 

[NFBuck]

3-9 was bad, very bad admittedly, but should anybody have expected anything better than maybe 5-7 best?

That wasn't the company line going into last year. Most of your brethren were calling seven to eight wins.

Lost Chad Henne, Mike Hart, Adam Kraus, and Jake Long to the graduation/NFL. Justin Boren transferred to Ohio State, and Alex Mitchell quit the team. Mario and Arrington turned pro early. That's 8 starters on offense gone like that. The heir apparent at QB, Ryan Mallett, yeah, he transferred to Arkansas.

Threet was a 4* prospect. Not a world beater by any means, but if used properly, should have been a more than capable placeholder. There was still talent on the OL. Inexperienced, yes, but talent to work with. A radical shift in offensive philosophy impeded that development. Could they have been more successful with a less complicated transition? Most likely.

Which left us with Steven Threet and Nick Sheridan at QB (OUCH), at WR we were left with Greg Mathews (who is a role player, not a featured WR) and a bunch of inexperience at WR, and at RB we had an oft-injured but talented duo in Brandon Minor and Carlos Brown. We we're also breaking in 4 new starters along the offensive line. They were also trying to learn a drastically different offensive system.

See above on Threet. Losing Hart hurt, but DickRod decided to go with an undersized, contact shy frosh RB over the more talented, more capable Minor and Brown for a good portion of the season. Even when it was clear that McGuffie was in over his head, he continued to pound him until the concusiions began. WR talent was thin, but they were miscast in the offense that Dick chose to run. Guys like Stonum, Hemingway and Matthews would have been much better utilized in a more traditional, or at least, more modified version of Dick's spread. The development they've seen at times from Stonum and Hemingway this season, should have been going on last.

As far as our defense goes, well I just honestly do not think we have been that talented on defense the past 2 years. From that 2008 team, in the 2009 NFL draft only 2 of our defensive players were even drafted, Terrence Taylor in the 4th round and Morgan Trent in the 6th round. Taylor got cut from the Colts recently and Trent is still with the Bengals. Don't ask me how that happened, as I was sure that Taylor would be a beast in the NFL and Trent wouldn't ever get drafted.

Again, the company line last summer was that the defense would be very solid and carry you guys through the offensive growing pains. It's not their fault Dick tried to pound multiple square pegs into multiple round holes. The offenses inability to stay on the field was their biggest obstacle...Barwis (!!!!11!!1!) or no Barwis (!!!!!11!!11!1!!). This is pure revisionist history.

Now, on this 2009 defense, can you tell me anybody outside of Brandon Graham and Donovan Warren that looks like they might get drafted into the NFL? Probably only Mike Martin and Craig Roh, both of which were signed by Rich.

Again, if the talent on D is so bad, why is Dick continuing to show a major propensity towards offense in his recruiting strategy? I know it's still early, but outside of Cullen Christian, who appears to likely be blue, he's not going after a lot of top talents.

I have a lot of faith in Greg Robinson, and I think he'll get things turned around on Defense sooner rather than later. I mean, Robinson has turned Stevie Brown around into by far our best Linebacker in one off-season, if that's not an impressive coaching feat, I don't know what is.

He may still turn things around, but it's gonna take a lot of patience. There is still a major defieciency talent wise on defense and it doesn't look like it's gonna be helped a lot this year either. Guys like MRob and Christian may very well help the blackhole that is the um safeties and shore up questionable CB depth, but there are still issues up front and at LB. Right now, he's counting on projects like Paskorz, Wilkens and Tolbert as opposed to any big time recruits to shore up a very weak front wave of defenders. Big Will was a bigtime recruit, but he's nowhere near ready and I still have my doubts as to whether he wouldn't have been better off as a college OL. He got abused last week. The deeper underlying issues of players taking bad angles and whiffing on tackles has still yet to really be addressed as well.

Unconventional defenses like the one um is trying to run is risky business in the Big Ten (which deep down, is still a power football conference). tOSU is having success because they have a defense full of blue chip recruits and have consistently showed that they coach up/develop those lesser rated recruits/projects. Time will tell, but um needs to start bringing in better talent if that is gonna work for them. Right now, a lot of help is needed talent-wise.

 

[OregonBuckeye]

Iowa is supposedly one of the top 2 teams in the B10 and we just gave them all they could handle and then some in their own house in a night game and despite turning the ball over 5 times.

So did Northern Iowa and Arkansas State. Whoopdee-fucking-doo!

Well, we put out a lot of NFL talent in that time span. Off the top of my head, just naming guys that played from 2000-2007 teams that start in the NFL;

Steve Hutchinson, OL (Future NFL HOF'er)

Jeff Backus, OL (has been an NFL starter for the same team that drafted him for almost a decade)

Maurice Williams, OL (has been an NFL starter for the same team that drafted him for almost a decade)

Jonathan Goodwin, OL (starter for the Saints)

Larry Foote, LB (has been an NFL stater pretty much his entire career, for the Steelers and now Detroit Lions)

Chad Henne (only 2 games in, but I think he's gonna be a great one in the NFL. Has got all of the tools needed, and he already looks much better than he ever was at Michigan. No batted balls every 10 passes and where the hell was that touch, throwing on the run, and screen passes at Michigan? It's called good coaching. He's got it now, so look out.)

Braylon Edwards (probably not well liked around here, but has shown himself to be an absolute stud in he NFL when he wants to be)

Steve Breaston (probably the best slot WR in the NFL. 1,000 yards last year, on pace for another big year this season. Where the hell was that route running and those hands at Michigan? Much better WR in the NFL than he ever was at Michigan. Why? Coaching.)

Jason Avant (not really a starter, but a good role receiver for the Eagles)

Jake Long (#1 overall pick, Pro Bowler his first year, stud)

David Baas (starter in the NFL for the 49ers)

LaMarr Woodley (starter for the Steelers, absolute stud)

David Harris (starter for the Jets, absolute stud)

Gabe Watson (starter, turning into a stud for Arizona)

Leon Hall (starter for the Bengals, absolute stud)

Marlin Jackson (starter for the Colts, stud when healthy)


Off the top of my head that's a lot of quality starting NFL talent that didn't really do a whole lot under Carr.

I think we've found our new ThaKid.

 

[NFBuck]

So did Northern Iowa and Arkansas State. Whoopdee-fucking-doo!

Shhhhhhhhhhh.

I think we've found our new ThaKid.

Not even close. When he starts calling Mouton, Stevie Brown, Bootycar Cissoko, Mike :groove3: Williams and Greg Matthews future first rounders and declaring the skunkbears 2010 National Champions he'll come close. ThaKid is on a whole other level...from everybody...on the internet.

 

[jwinslow]

RR is facing the worst paycheck opponent I've seen in years, but that said, Denard is executing the offense fairly well today. He had one fumble while driving the pile, but he's made some nice td throws, the latest flat out dropped by roundtree (it hit him right in the gut (low but accurate). He ran it in for a TD right afterwards. He's done better making reads on option looks and using his blockers.

I don't care what Tate says publically, this isn't what you want to see coming off of Iowa (and a lot of other meager games distorted by some late game heroics).

 

[jwinslow]

UM continues to beat up on the hapless hornets, but Denard continues to impress. He completed his second TD pass (also wide open, and a bit underthrown), but one thing I'm noticing is he really sells his fakes very well without the ball. Tate just goes through the motions and makes life easier on the defense, a lot like Pryor after handing it off.

Del St finally shows signs of life, kick return to midfield, set up 3rd & 1, and they opt to drop into shotgun and bumble their way into a sack.

Kevin Molasses Grady just ripped off a 25 yard run

Nick Sheridan in to run the offense with 5 min left in the 2nd. Good shot at 50 pts before halftime here.

Will we see the Coner?

 

[jwinslow]

Kevin Grady is stuffed 5 yards deep, tackle missed. Contained 5 yards later at the LOS, defender overpursues, and Grady punches it into the endzone.

49-0 with 1:42 left.

 

[jwinslow]

Squib kick returned to 23. Incredibly weak out route somehow finds his man, 1st down at 4 yd line.

1st down throwaway. QB has the mobility of Steve Rehring.

2nd down throwaway at the feet of defense, dangerous pass.

3rd down, another bumbling scramble by the QB. While being hit, he throws a dangerous pass to the flats.

Sets up a difficult right hash FG from about 20 yards out. Timeout

49-3 :57 left.

 

[jwinslow]

RR's 46 pt lead was not satisfactory against the helpless hornets, he went for it on 4th & goal from the 5. Sheridan came up short.

 

[goblue15]

RR's 46 pt lead was not satisfactory against the helpless hornets, he went for it on 4th & goal from the 5. Sheridan came up short.

What was he suppose to do kick a field goal with a 46 point lead? Really Winslow.