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2009 TSUN News (football only discussion)

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Stevie Brown, Ezeh, Mouton, Fitzgerald, Kenny Demens, Brandon Smith (moved to LB from safety) -- those were all Carr recruits at LB. Some of them were highly ranked, but none have really been stellar. Keep in mind Smith is only a RS Frosh (although he got beaten by RS Soph walkon Leach), Demens is a RS Frosh, and Fitzgerald is a true Soph. I included Mouton and Brown on my list of four decent upperclassmen, but Carr shouldn't have put us in the position of having to rely on a second-year player or walkon. If forgot that RichRod did run off one LB, though: Taylor Hill. He would have been another true sophomore or RS Freshman.

Everyone who has watched a game of ours over the past three years (since David Harris left for the Jets) will tell you that our linebacker play is our biggest weakness on defense (and, last year, our safety play). Part of it, for the last two years, might be our LB coach Hopson.

The situation in the D-backfield is all on Carr. We have four DBs between the sophomore, junior and senior classes. That's total players, not starters (although they all happen to be our starters: two sophs and two JRs). That's all on Carr, and it's inexcusable.

Our D-line is one senior (Graham), two sophomores (RS Soph Van Bergen, True Soph Martin), and a freshman, Roh. That's also on Carr.
 
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fongo;1547024; said:
Stevie Brown, Ezeh, Mouton, Fitzgerald, Kenny Demens, Brandon Smith (moved to LB from safety) -- those were all Carr recruits at LB. Some of them were highly ranked, but none have really been stellar. Keep in mind Smith is only a RS Frosh (although he got beaten by RS Soph walkon Leach), Demens is a RS Frosh, and Fitzgerald is a true Soph. I included Mouton and Brown on my list of four decent upperclassmen, but Carr shouldn't have put us in the position of having to rely on a second-year player or walkon. If forgot that RichRod did run off one LB, though: Taylor Hill. He would have been another true sophomore or RS Freshman.

Everyone who has watched a game of ours over the past three years (since David Harris left for the Jets) will tell you that our linebacker play is our biggest weakness on defense (and, last year, our safety play). Part of it, for the last two years, might be our LB coach Hopson.

The situation in the D-backfield is all on Carr. We have four DBs between the sophomore, junior and senior classes. That's total players, not starters (although they all happen to be our starters: two sophs and two JRs). That's all on Carr, and it's inexcusable.

Our D-line is one senior (Graham), two sophomores (RS Soph Van Bergen, True Soph Martin), and a freshman, Roh. That's also on Carr.
Click to expand...
Like I said, Lloyd Carr = the new Ty Willingham.
 
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I agree that some of the Carr-bashing is over the top. I saw a thread where a person compared his hiring to Stewart's at WVU. But Carr was not a good coach at the end. 2005 was a crappy team. 2006 was an excellent defense (not against you guys or USC, though), but all those players left by the time RichRod came in. 2007 was hyped on the basis of Henne, Hart, Manningham and Long (all of whom left before RichRod came in) and still lost to you guys, Appy State, Oregon, Wisky and had a much-too-close game against MSU. The team was bad enough that with all that talent almost nobody in the Michigan fanbase thought we had a chance going into the game against Florida. And all the bigtime talent on that team (the four players mentioned, plus Crable, Jamar Adams, Adam Kraus, Adrian Arrington) left that year.

The cupboard was bare for RichRod. Nobody can deny that. I posted before (on page 216, if your're interested) a little analysis on Lloyd Carr's defensive recruiting in his last couple of years. Without Ron English (Warren, Mouton, Williams), it would have been abysmal. With Ron English, it was only horrible.

The players who are now true sophs/RS Frosh were in RichRod's first recruiting class, and he came in real late so he couldn't do much. Here's what Carr left RichRod on defense. Between the RS Soph/5th-year-SR classes (the ones RichRod had nothing to do with) we have the following numbers of recruited players on the team:

3 DBs spread over four positions (all starting)
3 LBs spread over three positions (all starting)
7 D-linemen spread over four positions (two starting)

If you add in the class Carr and RichRod shared (so, we're including RS Frosh and True Soph. In other words, these are all the defensive players recruited to Michigan who are not true freshmen):

5 DBs spread over four positions
6 LBs spread over three postions
8 D-linemen spread over four positions.

Talk about not having any depth!
 
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fongo;1547031; said:
The cupboard was bare for RichRod. Nobody can deny that.
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Hmmm.... I don't recall Michigan boards being full of comments about how dreadful Carr's recruiting classes were. I don't recall Tom Beaver saying 50.1% chance that any Carr class was going to suck....

Indeed, I recall quite the opposite...

Indeed, I recall comments like "Hey, if RR can win with the type of recruits he got at West Virginia, imagine what he'll do with our guys!" - suggesting, of course, that Michigan had plenty of talent...

Likewise, I watched Arkansas v. Georgia this past Saturday... a former QB of Michigan's... he looked pretty good to me.. I mean, certainly better than Nick Sheridan. And.. he was on Michigan's Roster when RR came to town.
 
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fongo;1547027; said:
Hey, you guys got to do it with Tressel/Cooper.

Tressel won with Coop's players? (I know Tressel has owned us. You don't need to remind me)
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Yes, Tressel won with Cooper's players. As a matter of fact, he won an NC with a mishmash of his recruits and Cooper's. Something DoucheRod will not be doing.

Comparison fail.
 
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fongo;1547031; said:
But Carr was not a good coach at the end.
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Yeah, in his last game all he did was beat a Florida squad that was in between BCS Title years and had a Heisman winning QB. Despite Bike Hart uncharacteristically trying to fumble the game away close to the goal line.




And I know you were talking about recruiting.
 
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U-M center David Molk out 4-6 weeks with broken foot

Angelique S. Chengelis / The Detroit News

Ann Arbor -- Michigan has lost starting center David Molk for four to six weeks with a broken bone in a foot.
Molk, who suffered the injury in the first half of the Eastern Michigan game but played through the injury, had surgery Monday, U-M coach Rich Rodriguez said.
David Moosman, the starting right guard who missed the EMU game with a shoulder separation, is expected to be the center against Indiana on Saturday. Rocko Khoury also will take snaps this week in practice.
 
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The cupboard was bare for RichRod. Nobody can deny that.
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This line is drastically overused and rarely in an accurate manner.

Against PSU, OSU & ND? Yes.
Against MSU? Not even close. Brian Hoyer was one of their best players, and he was not very good. I'd argue he was their worst starting QB this decade, including 09.
Against Toledo, Purdue, Northwestern? The answer 'no' wins in a landslide.
The players who are now true sophs/RS Frosh were in RichRod's first recruiting class, and he came in real late so he couldn't do much. Here's what Carr left RichRod on defense. Between the RS Soph/5th-year-SR classes (the ones RichRod had nothing to do with) we have the following numbers of recruited players on the team:

3 DBs spread over four positions (all starting)
3 LBs spread over three positions (all starting)
7 D-linemen spread over four positions (two starting)
Click to expand...
Defensive depth was a major issue, yet RR loaded up on slots who cannot contribute on defense. When you recruit 6' 200 lb athletes, they can help you on special teams coverage, corner, RB, WR, safety, etc. When you recruit 5'6" 150 lb jitterbugs, they can only return kicks and work out of the slot.
If you add in the class Carr and RichRod shared (so, we're including RS Frosh and True Soph. In other words, these are all the defensive players recruited to Michigan who are not true freshmen):
Click to expand...
That's a neat way of disregarding the tremendous class Carr gave RR that year.

RR added 11 players to Carr's class, and 8 of those were on offense. One of the defenders transferred, the other is an average talent (Floyd), and the third is still a tweener at this point (Smith).

Carr gave RR this on defense:

***** DE Brandon Graham, all-big 10 defender, potentially overall.
***** DT Mike Martin, tremendous talent & rare early impact DT.
***** DT Will Campbell, elite talent but a project
***** LB Jonas Mouton, 5-star safety moved down
**** LB JB Fitzgerald
**** LB Marcus WItherspoon
***** CB Donovan Warren
***** CB Boubacar Cissoko
***** CB Justin Turner (that recruitment was over before RR was hired. the only suspense was when they didn't call him for months on end after taking the UM job).
**** S Stevie Brown


MSU has one player worth mentioning on defense. The rest are talents which pale in comparison to anyone besides Stevie Brown.

Carr gave RR this on offense:

***** Ryan Mallett, first round pick type potential at QB.
***** Kevin Grady, did not live up to hype at RB but has been a key contributor at FB. Would star at the MSUs, NWs & Purdues of the world.
**** Brandon Minor, as good as anyone in the league when healthy
**** Carlos Brown, great speed back
**** Sam McGuffie, RR style back, thrust into feature back role far too early, should have been redshirted instead.
**** Darryl Stonum, stolen from heavy hitters like FLA. UM's most talented WR
**** Toney Clemons, 6'3" prototypical UM wr. Completely wasted at slot WR.
**** Kevin Koger
**** Martell Webb - these two are big time weapons in the passing game.
***** Justin Boren, best guard in the big ten.
***** Steve Schilling, multi-year starter
 
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