2009 TSUN News (football only discussion)

[BB73]

I understand a lot of you on here are going to be irrational when it comes to UM, but as goblue15 said, just because two players haven't fit in, now the entire structure at UM is f'ed up? There will also be players that just don't fit, which is why you see so many transfers every year from a lot of schools.

Not just because of that. The 3-9 record, including a home loss to 3-9 Toledo, also gives us a clue.

 

[blueinfla]

Not just because of that. The 3-9 record, including a home loss to 3-9 Toledo, also gives us a clue.

I agree that the Toledo fiasco should never, ever happen. The defense that was left, at least the front 7, were good enough, but they got killed by that UM offense. The defense was on the field way too long, and just wore out. That doesn't mean the structure is messed up. Maybe it means it was messed up, and is being fixed. RR didn't have the players he needed in year one, but has addressed some of those problems through recruits and offseason work.

 

[LightningRod]

From the same mgoblog link:

From what I can decipher from GBMW's "post" on the topic, it sounds like their super reliable sources are saying that Turner is enrolled for fall classes. I'm willing to believe that.

But even coachBT in the comments admits that 'ENROLL not same as ELIGIBLE' (or something like that, who the hell can tell what cavemanBT is trying to say). He's correct. But then that means GBMW is simply taking a leap of faith that the athletic department wouldn't let Turner enroll if he wasn't going to be eligible. Frankly, that's a pretty big leap, IME, and I think it's unwise for Brian to take that leap. And Leaps of Faith =/= Confirmed e-Fact, so this is wrong on so many levels.

In the end, I imagine Turner will be eligible...but that doesn't mean that it's "confirmed" or "official" today.

Also, coachBT says this:

Difference between being enrolled in school and making through the NCAA clearinghouse.

Now, obviously the verbiage is a bit fucked up, but he's saying that Turner being enrolled is not the same thing as him passing the exam.

On the State of Ohio's own website for the test, they say that results are not available until 8/2/2009:

coachBT is a reliable poster and the test results are not available until 8/2/09. So what is the real story?

 

[goblue15]

Not just because of that. The 3-9 record, including a home loss to 3-9 Toledo, also gives us a clue.

There were many factors that led up to last seasons collapse. The two biggest probably being depth and not everybody buying in... We were in almost every game through the 1st half if you go back and look. We were only down 7 too you guys at halftime. When problems began in the second half the team just quit.

 

[jwinslow]

RR also dialed back the extremeness a bit since the first spring. Frey is another matter.

I understand a lot of you on here are going to be irrational when it comes to UM, but as goblue15 said, just because two players haven't fit in, now the entire structure at UM is f'ed up?

There have been more than two, but I would not expect either side to be able to judge this fairly, which is part of what I meant by my last post. GBW is well known for asking leading questions, and the family values thing popped up a LOT after Boren's grumpy remarks. Likewise, there were a lot of other things Boren didn't like (UM's schemes, their roster, future & offense), yet he latched onto family values as a parting shot. Even if it was true, you're not going to get a very fair evaluation from a departing grumpy gus (which is why I found Threet's comments more interesting than the OL who were sick of being run and yelled to death).

There will also be players that just don't fit, which is why you see so many transfers every year from a lot of schools.

You don't see players leave a lot of schools hating football. Whether that helps UM surge to the top or breaks them down remains to be seen.

Last year it would help their conditioning in the late game situations. Then when that failed, it became a two year plan (personally, I think this argument holds some water, I'm just wondering why that timetable didn't emerge until after the 2008 dividends were not there).

Conditioning is only a part, and not the main problem this decade for UM. Fundamentals, tackling, pursuit angles, talent, gameplanning & leadership were much more impactful on their outcomes. Conditioning doesn't make Stevie Brown stop blowing coverages, or Charles Stewart from losing containment on the edges after an out route or swing pass... nor would it have made Burgess, Woodley or others keep Troy or Vince from sidestepping them on the perimeter.

There's a case to be made that OSU was in better shape the last 3 years, and yet they would get whipped if they faced the last S&C's squads (02, 03, 05 in particular).

UM will become elite again when they have the talent, coaching & schemes to field a good defense again. A great offense will get them back to 9-10 wins, but defense is needed to win NCs.

 

[jwinslow]

Really not in the mood to split off more bickering folks. Lets talk football.

 

[blueinfla]

UM will become elite again when they have the talent, coaching & schemes to field a good defense again. A great offense will get them back to 9-10 wins, but defense is needed to win NCs.

Agreed completely. I love me a great defense. Anyway, even though RR seems to be concentrating on the offense in his recruiting, the defensive side is showing some signs of being a good class. I think quite a few recruits are waiting to see how '09 turns out.

 

[Merih]

Has anyone considered the fact that maybe RichRod just doesn't care to recruit defensively? I don't remember anytime where WVU was a defensive stalwart. Maybe he suscribes to the philosophy of shock and awe. IE we'll get on the scoreboard so quick that they won't know what hit 'em.

He obviously believed his way would work last year by not slowly integrating his offense with the pro style Michigan is known for. Why should we believe that he's ever going to put emphasis on the defensive side of the ball when its clearly his way or the highway.

 

[NFBuck]

Really not in the mood to split off more bickering folks. Lets talk football.

That's gonna be a full-time job jwins...especially if people like that mh20 chracter continue to post. I find goblue15 and blueinfla pretty level headed.

 

[jwinslow]

That's gonna be a full-time job jwins...especially if people like that mh20 chracter continue to post. I find goblue15 and blueinfla pretty level headed.

I agree, that's why I wanted to nip it in the bud. Mocking UM is fine on our board (even in this thread, as long as its limited after a story breaks or silly post is made), but continuing to bait someone in the course of a discussion belongs in the bickering thread, not this one.

 

[Sportsbuck28]

Has anyone considered the fact that maybe RichRod just doesn't care to recruit defensively? I don't remember anytime where WVU was a defensive stalwart. Maybe he suscribes to the philosophy of shock and awe. IE we'll get on the scoreboard so quick that they won't know what hit 'em.

West Virginia has had a pretty good defense most years that I can remember off hand, but that is due to their DC.

 

[Merih]

Yeah they never had a terrible defense...but it sure was never their priority. They were never a balanced team...you take they're #1 option they're like ducks in the water. Just the talent levels of the top dogs in the Big Ten is way higher than that of the Big East; even with the increase in talent he inherited by moving to Michigan. But when he squares up against us or Penn State or Notre Dame...he is never going to out-talent us...and that's where defensive priority comes in handy. I wonder if he'll realize that before they get into too big of a hole.

 

[Merih]

by donsmithmfan, 7/16/09 13:45 ET
Re: It's going to happen by donsmithmfan, 7/16/09 Here's how we currently stack up:

X's and O's: UM
S&C: UM
Talent: Wash
Execution: ?
We'll be back on top very soon my friends!

X's and O's will never belong to a coach running a spread option attack. There is simply not enough variation in that offense for a coach to throw something at a defense that a good D-Coordinator won't expect. It's dependent on athletes all around the system being more athletic than the athletes on the other side of the field. QB/RB sweep left/right, bubble screen left/right, PA roll out left/right accounts for probably 80% percent of possible play calls. They're playing tic-tac-toe with football, basically.

S&C: Gimme a break...at this level of major college football strength and conditioning is more based on the cut of athlete you have. Plus, Michigan nearly always faded out at the end of games. Where was their superior S&C there? Sure, coaches can make a difference, ie Taver Johnson shaving milli-seconds off of 40s and the like. But, Barwis is not going to come in and singlehandedly make a QB sweep faster. When the offense doesn't have many options post snap, then team conditioning level bows down in important to talent level of the 1 or 2 reads that the quarterback has...which leads me to:

Talent: Wash? Are you kidding me? A wash? So you figure that our linebackers are a wash with yours? Our depth matches theirs? This is a joke. Look at recruiting classes and production from the last 5 years, not even just the RR era, and tell me that we are evenly matched talent wise. GTFOH (Get The [censored] Outta Here)

Execution: Now here is a viable contention. But when you only really have to execute 5 or so plays for 80% of the game there's no excuses as to why they didn't have this clicking by the end of the year last year.

 

[BuckeyeLiger87]

Tate might be a slightly better fit than Threet/Sheridanbut he's still a freshman playing for a bad team. Good Rb's and DE's help UM possibly get to 6-6. That would be a good year.

Let us not forget they got roasted last year by a QB who was playing running backs weeks before he played scUM(Good thing he and Toledo arn't gonna be back this year). 6 or more wins would be amazing.

 

[jwinslow]

6 or more wins would be amazing.

No, it wouldn't. 6 wins would be a decent, not good not bad year. They should have won at least 5 games last year, but because of that season's gross underachievement, even given the problems RR inherited, now another mediocre season will look like a big step forward. Last year, they should have beaten Miami, Wisconsin, Toledo, Purdue & Northwestern... yet they only beat two of those 5.

WMU, EMU, Indiana & Purdue should be no match for UM's talent. (whether WMU plays out that way is another story)
Wisconsin, Michigan State, Iowa all have major issues.
Delaware State comes off of a losing season to replace Utah from the 08 schedule.
The top-3, ILL, PSU & OSU all have considerable holes on their roster.
Notre Dame has been grossly underachieving for years, even down the stretch last year. Beating up on hapless Hawaii doesn't change that.

Regular season wins:
8+ good | 7 solid | 6 meh | <6 failure imo

No excuse for losing: WMU, EMU, IU, Purdue, Del St
Closer: MSU*, Iowa*, Wisc**
Better teams: ILL, PSU, OSU, ND

* - Outclassed in talent, often execute closer to ability level than UM
** - Outclassed in talent and execute poorly