2009 tOSU Offense Discussion

[MaxBuck]

I think that Stoneburner's size is overstated a bit.

Not I. He's every bit of 6-5.

 

[IronBuckI]

I've seen Stoneburner probably 100 times over the past year and he's easily 6'4" but I'd eye test him more at 6'5". And he's definitely more than 240 lbs.

Your 100 to my 1 brings us back to the original question. At 6'4" or 6'5" 240+ lbs. Is Stoneburner's size and speed not the advantage that we thought it would be, or is it actually just a case of him not being familiar with the 'O'? Yet another talented but very green offensive player, and once things start to click he'll be a beast?

 

[Bucks21]

Your 100 to my 1 brings us back to the original question. At 6'4" or 6'5" 240+ lbs. Is Stoneburner's size and speed not the advantage that we thought it would be, or is it actually just a case of him not being familiar with the 'O'? Yet another talented but very green offensive player, and once things start to click he'll be a beast?

The only route , that I saw him run against USC he was wide open and TP did not make the correct read.

 

[ThirdGenBuckeye]

Your 100 to my 1 brings us back to the original question. At 6'4" or 6'5" 240+ lbs. Is Stoneburner's size and speed not the advantage that we thought it would be, or is it actually just a case of him not being familiar with the 'O'? Yet another talented but very green offensive player, and once things start to click he'll be a beast?

I think so. A friend of mine played with him at Dublin and said that he has it all for sure (speed for his size, and his catching ability is no joke), and that he's just been trying to work his way into the offense. He came in with the WR mentality but is trying to shift to the TE style still. Like you said he is very green, so I think he just needs more time. He is still just a RS Frosh behind a senior TE and alongside another talented frosh TE.

Not to forget it'll take TP to start throwing to him too when he is in the game.

 

[ginn421]

He missed a bunch of time during the past two fall camps as well due to injury. Those lost reps hurt when the season rolls around.

 

[NateG]

We have showed we have the athletes, we made big plays against USC, but why can't we be crisp. Why can't we finish the job and get in the endzone. That is what I am saying.

I am not going to sit on here and argue back and forth about this. My last point is that the teams you just mentioned(Texas, USC, PSU and LSU(07)) were teams that had entrenched leadership at the QB position(Colt, Sanchez, Clark, Flynn). Not a first year starter(including the USC 09 game, Pryor's 12-13 start) with new to him offensive personnel. That is why an offense can be CRISP and finish. Because the expirience the QB has. The most important position in football. You need continuity with your QB and the other offensive players and he needs to be able to read defenses to help put the team in a position to win on the field (expirience). The last time OSU had what you are looking for is when Troy was QB. And the next time is coming into view with Pryor but it takes time. Our offense is good enough and will be good enough to win out this year. I really could give 2 craps if they do that 10-7 or 45-7. Just win baby.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

I am not going to sit on here and argue back and forth about this. My last point is that the teams you just mentioned(Texas, USC, PSU and LSU(07)) were teams that had entrenched leadership at the QB position(Colt, Sanchez, Clark, Flynn). Not a first year starter(including the USC 09 game, Pryor's 12-13 start) with new to him offensive personnel. That is why an offense can be CRISP and finish. Because the expirience the QB has. The most important position in football. You need continuity with your QB and the other offensive players and he needs to be able to read defenses to help put the team in a position to win on the field (expirience). The last time OSU had what you are looking for is when Troy was QB. And the next time is coming into view with Pryor but it takes time. Our offense is good enough and will be good enough to win out this year. I really could give 2 craps if they do that 10-7 or 45-7. Just win baby.

I am not disagreeing with this...you are missing the point to be an elite offense we need to score. We are moving the ball, we are getting on the other side fo the field, we are gettting in the redzone...We are not converting to TD's...It is not just a problem this year, it has always been a problem for us for a while.

 

[NateG]

I am not disagreeing with this...you are missing the point to be an elite offense we need to score. We are moving the ball, we are getting on the other side fo the field, we are gettting in the redzone...We are not converting to TD's...It is not just a problem this year, it has always been a problem for us for a while.

What's a while? If this is the third year then we agree completely. We didn't struggle to score TD's with Troy running the offense. 2006. Todd wasn't what we thought he was in 2007, he played out of his mind. And last year moving into this year has been pretty much bringing up Pryor. You can't have an elite offense every year(from the terms you have described). So if you are wanting that, I feel like you will consistently be disappointed. Moving the ball down the field to the 30 or so and scoring TD's are 2 seperate issues. Defenses usually get harder to move on in the red zone because of the shrunken field. That is were decision making is amplified, mainly at the QB position. Sometimes athleticism isn't enough. Maybe you are asking for a completely new scheme, I don't know. But Tressel wins. So you are either inferring that TP should be alot better or Tressel should be alot better since OSU can't score TD's 65-80% of the time. I feel like TP is getting there, and that Tressel is Damned if he does and Damned if he doesn't on alot of things.


You say I'm not getting the point. Then what are you asking for? What are your opinions on why it isn't happening? You said you aren't expecting TD's all the time, then what percentage are you expecting? What moves a offense from good to elite? I gave you the reasons that I felt have caused OSU not to score TD's but then you say that I am not understanding. I have honestly felt after last year ended that 2010 would be the next team to have what you are hoping for, and it usually works in a cycle like that. Every 2-3 years or so.

 

[brutus2002]

Run some option

Play action

go 4-5 wide roll Pryor out with a run /pass option

wheel route to Boren

TE's...please use these guys

punch their DL right in the face. If they can't stop it continue to run it straight at them.

 

[Jaxbuck]

When you get out to the obligatory 10 point lead don't let up.

I swear to god it seems like we start every Wisky game out 10-0 and make it look easy doing it then things stall and next thing you know its a war or we lose.

 

[OregonBuckeye]

I can't see your picture here, but if you're talking about Duron Carter, he's listed as 6'2" or 6'3" pretty much everywhere. Again, not sure if college rosters are all that accurate.

It is Duron and they definitely aren't accurate. Carter reportedly measured in at 6'4.5" at Ohio State. He's grown a couple inches in the last 2 years. Those listings are just old.

When you get out to the obligatory 10 point lead don't let up.

I swear to god it seems like we start every Wisky game out 10-0 and make it look easy doing it then things stall and next thing you know its a war or we lose.

True. Just pretend like it's Northwestern. Don't let up.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

What's a while? If this is the third year then we agree completely. We didn't struggle to score TD's with Troy running the offense. 2006. Todd wasn't what we thought he was in 2007, he played out of his mind. And last year moving into this year has been pretty much bringing up Pryor. You can't have an elite offense every year(from the terms you have described). So if you are wanting that, I feel like you will consistently be disappointed. Moving the ball down the field to the 30 or so and scoring TD's are 2 seperate issues. Defenses usually get harder to move on in the red zone because of the shrunken field. That is were decision making is amplified, mainly at the QB position. Sometimes athleticism isn't enough. Maybe you are asking for a completely new scheme, I don't know. But Tressel wins. So you are either inferring that TP should be alot better or Tressel should be alot better since OSU can't score TD's 65-80% of the time. I feel like TP is getting there, and that Tressel is Damned if he does and Damned if he doesn't on alot of things.


You say I'm not getting the point. Then what are you asking for? What are your opinions on why it isn't happening? You said you aren't expecting TD's all the time, then what percentage are you expecting? What moves a offense from good to elite? I gave you the reasons that I felt have caused OSU not to score TD's but then you say that I am not understanding. I have honestly felt after last year ended that 2010 would be the next team to have what you are hoping for, and it usually works in a cycle like that. Every 2-3 years or so.

I guess I ask to be able to score TD's more so than settle for fgs or punts ont he opponents side of the field. When I talk elite, I mean this year. The thing is we are not having trouble moving the ball...It is when we get to the opponents side of the field, and when we get in third down situations.

Even Troy and Company struggled to score in the redzone...I still remember loving the slant to Holmes in the redzone, we scored on that a ton, but remember having struggles. Even with Beanie in the redzone we struggled. It has always been a problem with Tress, he seems to be ok with 3. Plays not to lose the 3 than to go for the 7. Maybe it is just my perception.

Options for scoring in the redzone, are things like playaction, roll outs, fades, overloads, etc. Just don't spread out and run the QB draw, it is obvious, or run a slow devleoping play on the 1 yd line (Boom herron stopped on 3rd-1 on goal line USC), Use the athletes, and maybe not in a way of speed but more so, your big WR's over the smaller DBs. The options are there and I don't think you can deny that.

Also lets be honest, whether we are good or elite offense we should be able to score more than 40% of the time in opponents territory against Indiana. We should be able to run the ball 3 times and get 10 yds and move the chains. It just sucks to get great field position against teams and not capitalize. LSU 2007 rings a bell, 2008 texas, 2009 USC... I understand those are good defenses, but gotta find a way.

This is from the dispatch. It is only based on last year and in the redzone. but the only stats that I have that I don't have to look up. Pretty eye opening IMO...elite vs. avg. It is hard to classify what is good, what is elite, I just know we are not scoring enough TD's. Especially with the field position we are getting...

Ohio State led the nation in red-zone scoring efficiency in 2008, but check out how the Buckeyes compared to Oklahoma, which ranked fifth, and Southern California, which ranked 40th:

Ohio State

? 41 drives inside the 20
? 39 scores (25 TDs, 14 FGs)
Oklahoma

? 84 drives inside the 20
? 78 scores (71 TDs, seven FGs)
USC

? 63 drives inside the 20
? 53 scores (45 TDs, eight FGs)

 

[NateG]

So then you just want Tress to change it up or let's get rid of him. Because you know what OKLA has choked(worse than OSU, 7 straight years) and USC has choked(against teams they SHOULD beat). But OSU Has only had 2 games where they lost to opponents they were supposed to beat(UF and ILL) in the last 3-4 years. So we will have to agree that more TD's are good but disagree that Tress isn't getting it done. I am glad to be a Buckeye and glad we don't get beat by Boise's and Oreg St's and WV's and Stanford's. Should we win a few other games maybe but to be honest we don't know what would happen if other plays were called. Maybe we turn the ball over or get a bigger loss and get no points but I think Tress is working on revolutionizing himself by adding Hazell into the mix and working to be innovative. That's were we see the TE coming down on a blocking pattern or different sets, he's trying. That's why we see Pryor in longer, trying to get him up to speed. I think this is an endless conversation because the majority of teams that win have a GREAT or ELITE defense and maybe a GOOD to GREAT offense not necessarily ELITE. Neither of the team's you listed offensive stats for won the title. Neither did State Penn 2008. The thing that I noticed on alot the games lost of late(ILL 07, LSU 07/08, PSU 08, Tex 08, USC 08) was a defense that didn't make a stop when it counted. But again let's agree to disagree outside of more TD's are good because we will go back and forth forever.

 

[BB73]

Ohio State led the nation in red-zone scoring efficiency in 2008, but check out how the Buckeyes compared to Oklahoma, which ranked fifth, and Southern California, which ranked 40th:

Ohio State

? 41 drives inside the 20
? 39 scores (25 TDs, 14 FGs)
Oklahoma

? 84 drives inside the 20
? 78 scores (71 TDs, seven FGs)
USC

? 63 drives inside the 20
? 53 scores (45 TDs, eight FGs)

Assuming all the XPs were made 1-pointers, this would mean:

PPRZP (points per red zone possession):
5.29 - tOSU
6.17 - Okla
5.38 - USC

So tOSU's production was close to USC's but well behind Oklahoma, which had a record-setting offense that was neutralized in the BCSCG.

5.29 is an acceptable number for an 'elite' team. Changing just 1 FG into a TD last year would have given tOSU a higher RZPPP than USC.

This year, however, tOSU's RZPPP is a disappointing 4.375. Worth noting again this week is that Wiscy's is 6.55, first in the country.

[Soapbox] The NCAA really needs to change the red zone ranking to PPP. [/Soapbox]

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Analysis - Touchdowns are nice. Three missed chip shot field goals hurt. Team with most points win.

All three were from the hash marks at short distance, i.e., difficult angles. Pettrey has problems with those sorts of kicks, but excels when he doesn't have to deal with tough angles.