This is the big mystery to me. Maybe he's having trouble with the playbook? I don't know...Tresselbeliever;1558323; said:
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jimotis4heisman
Banned
NCAA OFFICIAL ATHLETIC SITE - Football
passing off 97th
total off 68th
scoring off 47th
rushing 35th
third down off 50th 41%
total 1st downs 43rd
top 22nd
passing off 97th
total off 68th
scoring off 47th
rushing 35th
third down off 50th 41%
total 1st downs 43rd
top 22nd
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Work in progress.jimotis4heisman;1559021; said:
You still have a QB learning the college game and an OL just starting to gel. JT/Hazell are not gonna heap too much on Pryor until he shows he's ready (throwing garbage INT's like the one at the end of Saturday's game indicate he's not there yet). People get too hung up on those numbers, but you need to remember, he's only 16 months into his tOSU career. Troy Smith was returning kicks and VY was struggling mightily as a RS frosh getting booed by his own fans at the same point. TP is showing signs of improvement. He's now hitting his recievers as they come out of their cuts and is showing more of a willingness to take off and run.
I know a lot of people like to point at Tater Tot, but he was a much more refined passer coming in, he also cost his team the game last week and his miscues have caused them to have difficulty with teams that have no business hanging with them. He also has nowhere near the ceiling TP has.
It's gonna get better as the year progresses and nobody is going to want to play tOSU by years end.
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NateG
Can't waste the day when the night brings a hearse
crazybuckfan40;1559001; said:
Should be easier and need are 2 different things.
Totally different teams and the offense did have some good games but 2002 showed you do not NEED an ELITE offense.
2002 scores:
TTU 45-21
Kent ST 51-17
WSU 25-7
Cin 23-19
Ind 45-17
North 27-16
SJSU 50-7
Wisky 19-14
PSU 13-7
Minny 34-3
Purdue 10-6
ILL(ot) 23-16
scUM 14-9
Miami(2ot) 31-24
5 of 13 against ranked teams
9 of 13 games OSU failed to score over 30 in regulation.
5 of 13 failed to score 20 in regulation
3 of 13 failed to score 15 in regulation
5 of 13 wins by more than 20
Thus far in 2009
Navy 31-27
USC 15-18
Toledo 38-0
Ill 30-0
Ind 33-14
1 of 5 against ranked teams
4 of 5 30 or more in regulation
2 of 5 failed to score 20 in first half
3 of 5 won by 19 or more
I feel like with a VERY YOUNG offense as we have, I will accept the progress we've seen(1 starting SR and 3-4 JRs in the last 3 games-Ballard/Boren/Browning/Saine/Sanz). 2002 was packed full of JRs(8 of 11, 2 SO, 1 FR) and to this point the offense is scoring at a good not great rate and will get better not worse. The QB position is a key to any football team. He is working hard to get better, and is wanting to be so good, but the fact that he is a TRUE SO is a huge factor. Having a line with 3 SO, 2 JR's(one of which didn't play last year) and skills positions with 3 SO's and 2 FR doesn't neccesarily help build continuity really fast. The only skill position guys he is used to are Sanz, Ballard, Herron, Posey, Small and Hall. He is building trust with Posey, but Posey has had some drops(that would produce more points in a couple of cases). And in the USC game he didn't see coverages as good as he does now(he's beginning to audible). They also just adopted the Read option and spread as the main offensive scheme for this year so all the practice he put in might not fully translate. I think alot of the concern is premature and mistakes that are being made are just ones of inexpirience. Believe it or not Indiana(46th) is a better defense than Illinois(105) and Toledo (109) is only 9 ranks worse than Navy(37th). The next 4 games(Wisc-70th, Pur-94th, Minn-81st, NMSU-38th) are actually great development chances leading to State Penn(15th),Iowa(32nd), and scUM(91st). Let's give it 2-3 weeks and let's see what we are saying.
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IronBuckI
Calmer than you are.
Tresselbeliever;1558323; said:
I think that Stoneburner's size is overstated a bit. I saw him at the Dublin fireworks in July. He was standing next to Cole Stoudt (current QB at Dublin Coffman), and Stoudt was at least an inch taller than Stoneburner. I thought that Stoudt must be 6'6" or 6'7", but the tallest I've seen Stoudt listed is 6'4". That leaves Stoneburner at 6'2" or 6'3", if Stoudt's measurables are correct. Stoneburner also didn't appear to be thick enough to be 240.NFBuck;1559014; said:
As for speed. I haven't really seen a burst on the field. It could be the playbook, but I think that trying to bulk up, to play TE, probably slowed him down a bit...but that's just pure speculation on my part.
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I believe Tresselball usually makes the offensive numbers look less effective than the offense really is.
In the first half against Toledo - 327 yards.
In the first half against Indiana - 279 yards.
Now those are two defenses that good teams should roll through, but averaging over 300 yards in the first halves shows solid numbers.
There are still things that need improvement: red zone offense, and consistent accuracy on throws for example, but IMO just looking at total offense rankings will normally undervalue how well tOSU's offense is performing.
I know JT has the team goals of 250 passing and 200 rushing yards, but if the team can reach these numbers, I'll probably be happy:
150+ passing efficiency (currently 135.2 for Pryor)
5.5 ypc rushing (currently 4.6 but improving)
5+ points per red zone possession (currently 4.375 - why isn't this the normal red zone stat? - it's what really matters!) Incidentally, Wiscy is #1 in the nation in red zone PPP with 6.55.
45% third down conversion (currently 41%, 45% would be top-30)
In the first half against Toledo - 327 yards.
In the first half against Indiana - 279 yards.
Now those are two defenses that good teams should roll through, but averaging over 300 yards in the first halves shows solid numbers.
There are still things that need improvement: red zone offense, and consistent accuracy on throws for example, but IMO just looking at total offense rankings will normally undervalue how well tOSU's offense is performing.
I know JT has the team goals of 250 passing and 200 rushing yards, but if the team can reach these numbers, I'll probably be happy:
150+ passing efficiency (currently 135.2 for Pryor)
5.5 ypc rushing (currently 4.6 but improving)
5+ points per red zone possession (currently 4.375 - why isn't this the normal red zone stat? - it's what really matters!) Incidentally, Wiscy is #1 in the nation in red zone PPP with 6.55.
45% third down conversion (currently 41%, 45% would be top-30)
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BigJim
Hall of Fame
jimotis4heisman;1559021; said:
I wish they'd do this on a per possession basis, or something of that sort. Yards per possession divided by total yards possible per possession would be a good start. Football needs a more relevant statistic ala Hollinger's PER for the NBA. I don't know that you can get it perfect but it could easily be a lot more telling than just total yards.
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CalvinistBuck
I don't mind being called a liar when I am lying.
BB73 certainly brings balance to the argument questioning the effectiveness of tOSU offense.
I think it's safe to presume that CBF40 and Jax are passionate Buckeye fans who would like to see the offense be more productive on a consistent basis. I certainly agree.
At minimum, most of us would certainly agree with this assessment:
To that end, I was encouraged by the "shotgun experiment." Coach Tressel and his staff are certainly looking for ways to make this offense more productive. That doesn't mean that the power running game with the QB under center needs to go away forever; however, with the current personnel, adjustments had to be made. Defending JT is routinely prudent, but even he saw the need for change.
I'd love to see TP get more adept at short passes in the flats and over the middle. In addition, running the option well will take a lot of reps, but it's an investment I'd like to see happen.
Any change that was going to take place was bound to be incremental. And I think the adjustments we're seeing is all TP can handle right now. There were some signs last Saturday that the offense is progressing. TP hit a number of short passes that I was excited about, his running appears to be more aggressive, and BSaine ran well with TP in the shotgun.
This is the offense we have right now and it's pretty good.
BB73;1559251; said:
I think it's safe to presume that CBF40 and Jax are passionate Buckeye fans who would like to see the offense be more productive on a consistent basis. I certainly agree.
At minimum, most of us would certainly agree with this assessment:
BB73;1559251; said:
To that end, I was encouraged by the "shotgun experiment." Coach Tressel and his staff are certainly looking for ways to make this offense more productive. That doesn't mean that the power running game with the QB under center needs to go away forever; however, with the current personnel, adjustments had to be made. Defending JT is routinely prudent, but even he saw the need for change.
I'd love to see TP get more adept at short passes in the flats and over the middle. In addition, running the option well will take a lot of reps, but it's an investment I'd like to see happen.
Any change that was going to take place was bound to be incremental. And I think the adjustments we're seeing is all TP can handle right now. There were some signs last Saturday that the offense is progressing. TP hit a number of short passes that I was excited about, his running appears to be more aggressive, and BSaine ran well with TP in the shotgun.
This is the offense we have right now and it's pretty good.
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crazybuckfan40
Head Coach
NateG;1559094; said:
Right and I have used them in two different ways.
1. Common sense says the better field position and the more times on the opponents side fo the field the more TDs you shoud score. (Should be easier)
2. Need - I will hit on this more in the post later, But USC, Texas, PSU, LSU (07) are all examples of what I am talking about.
Lets put this into context...If we just score against Purdue or Illinois those games are not close like they ended up. Yes we won, we won the national championship, yes that makes me happy as a fan, yes that allows us to call our team elite. Yes we could of beat anyone in the country, but beating Miami was a little bit of luck whether you admit it or not. Bbut we didn't win the NC game against Miami by kicking FGs we found ways to put the ball in the endzone. Not an elite offense, but Krenzel fought to find a way to will that team.
We lost a game we never should of lost because we were not able to put the ball in the endzone. Point made. We lost a game we never should of lost in our own stadium at night, because we could not put the ball in the endzone. We are not held in high standard due to not being able to look crisp in games. Yeah the scores are ok, but we are stuggling to get there, it is almost like a High performing car that is being asked to pull a trailer. I was in your seat a couple years ago fighting with Jax, making excuses, young Qb, we were winning games etc. The point is there is no reason why we can't have an improved offense on top of the great defense we already have. We have the athletes.
Now lets put my comments in context once again. I am not saying I want the top offense in the country, or some wacky 5 wide spread offense, trick plays, or that Tress can't adapt, or anything like that. What I am saying is whatever they gotta do, they gotta find ways to put the ball in the endzone when they are in position to do so. It isn't like we are getting the ball on our 5 and having to go 95 yards, we are talking about going 40 yds when our offense is already moving hte ball pretty well.
I don't disagree with anything you are saying and I think you are missing my point. Maybe you think I am harping on the offense, saying they are not good, harping on the offensive coaches, saying that we are playing sisters of the blind we should be able to run up and down the field, we are experience. Not sure those are all the points you hit on.
To be elite we need to score Td's. Point blank. This is not just a problem of this team. And I would of had no problem with winning the USC game 15-10 or Texas last year by 5 pts. The fact is we lost both because when we had multiple and when I say multiple probably around 5/game when we got on the opponents side of the field and punted, or kicked a fg.
We could of beat a top 5 team in USC this year by 2 scores. I don't know what the heck we gotta do, yes we are young, but the fact is if we could find a way to put the ball in the endzone more than we do and do so in a more consistent and crisp fashion we would be in the breath as the top 1 loss team and right behind Texas/Florida/Oklahoma.
We have showed we have the athletes, we made big plays against USC, but why can't we be crisp. Why can't we finish the job and get in the endzone. That is what I am saying.
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OregonBuckeye
Semper Fi Buckeyes
IronBuckI;1559202; said:
Scout.com: Jacob Stoneburner Profile
He's definitely in the 6'4" range.
Carter's 6'4"-6'4.5" for reference.
http://louisville.scout.com/a.z?s=17&p=8&c=1&nid=3063691
Stoudt checked in at 6'5" so you're probably right about him being an inch taller.
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IronBuckI
Calmer than you are.
Wrong Stoudt. Cole Stoudt, not Zack, was the kid that I saw Stoneburner standing next to.OregonBuckeye;1559527; said:Scout.com: Jacob Stoneburner Profile
He's definitely in the 6'4" range.
Carter's 6'4"-6'4.5" for reference.
Scout.com: Zack Stoudt Profile
Stoudt checked in at 6'5" so you're probably right about him being an inch taller.
I can't see your picture here, but if you're talking about Duron Carter, he's listed as 6'2" or 6'3" pretty much everywhere. Again, not sure if college rosters are all that accurate. You typically have to wait for the NFL combine to find out how big a player really is.
Either way. My point is that Stoney, in person, doesn't look as big as he's listed. Hence, his size and speed not creating the matchup advantages that we thought it would.
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ThirdGenBuckeye
What is dead may never die
IronBuckI;1559547; said:
I've seen Stoneburner probably 100 times over the past year and he's easily 6'4" but I'd eye test him more at 6'5". And he's definitely more than 240 lbs.
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smithlabs
Heisman
Going through a fun site - http://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/
OSU points/play = 28th (just behind USC). This is kind of a funny stat. There wasn't much separation between teams and it didn't pull out the "elite" teams IMHO. FWIW Toledo was 17 even after being shut out by OSU. I guess they didn't have many plays in that game with all the 3 & outs.
Ohio State was #9 in red zone scoring attempts but 87th in red zone scoring percentage. (.750)
I could not find a good points/red zone possesion stat.
Analysis - Touchdowns are nice. Three missed chip shot field goals hurt. Team with most points win.
OSU points/play = 28th (just behind USC). This is kind of a funny stat. There wasn't much separation between teams and it didn't pull out the "elite" teams IMHO. FWIW Toledo was 17 even after being shut out by OSU. I guess they didn't have many plays in that game with all the 3 & outs.
Ohio State was #9 in red zone scoring attempts but 87th in red zone scoring percentage. (.750)
I could not find a good points/red zone possesion stat.
Analysis - Touchdowns are nice. Three missed chip shot field goals hurt. Team with most points win.
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